OK audiophiles Sub help needed

ben62670

Please don't bother to respond if you haven't had experience with more than a few musical subs. I am not looking for HT stuff here, but more geared to music. Ported is out. The debate is sealed, or passive radiators. What do you guys think are some of the nicest sounding subs that play music tight and accurate.
Thanks much.
Ben

treitz3

My preference is sealed. Running the VMPS Larger that has a 12" and 15" active as well as a 15" passive. Coupled with the SMS-1, the sound and integration leaves me without any complaints. Not a big fan of ported subs here Ben.

ben62670

Thanks bro. Not a big fan of ported myself.

tryrrthg

you're a single guy. infinite baffle or dipole.

if those won't work build a low Q (big box) sealed sub.

Systems

For music low Q Sealed.PR's have the same steep rolloff as BR below tuning.

Ron Temple

Are you thinking of DIY or commercial? Budget? Are you going to try to acheive 124db output ?

Rythmik has a couple of kits and assembled 12" and 15" sealed servo subs. I've heard the 12" and it's extremely tight and musical if not driven past it's limits. Unlike most servos, Brian's design is not limited and will distort and bottom when pushed.

GR Research sells a 12" PR design that's also one of the best I've heard, but you have to build the box.

Epik has a couple of new sealed subs, the Vanquish and the Dragon, that I haven't heard, but have been told great things about.

The new Hsu ULS15 is another option, though the one guy I know who's heard both, prefers the Rythmik slightly for music, the Hsu for output.

pearsall001

I'm not a big fan of ported subs either. Now with dual Velo SPL-1200R subs flanking my AAD monitors...I'm in music heaven. Seemless integration, extremely musical is an understatement to say the least. There's no turning back now.

Conradicles

treitz3 wrote: »

My preference is sealed. Running the VMPS Larger that has a 12" and 15" active as well as a 15" passive. Coupled with the SMS-1, the sound and integration leaves me without any complaints. Not a big fan of ported subs here Ben.

+1 what he said

Erik Tracy

I run a sealed Epik Valor - sweet sub for music. I'd recommend this one.

But with the newer Epiks - you may have to wait a bit and see what the user reviews are like - or look for a deal on a used Valor.

Enjoy the quest...:D

CRESCENDOPOWER

Cerwin Vega is the answer!

POST#18:D

treitz3

STFU dweeb with nothing to do. Go back to popping your zits. At least that was more productive.

Post# Shove it where the sun don't shine. You look it up and enjoy the view.

amulford

tryrrthg wrote: »

you're a single guy. infinite baffle or dipole.

I agree with him. You can't beat IB for realism and bottom end. Dipoles too, but you might need to tame the reflections.

A line source set up might be worth looking into, too. Just something to ponder.

Menasor

From what I hear, the Rhythmiks are very very good for music. There's also a lot of buzz around the Epik Dragon.

Check out this D15SE here:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/D15SE.html

Systems

tryrrthg wrote: »

infinite baffle or dipole.

Excellent SQ potential, but both require multiple hi excursion drivers.

curved

What's your budget?

nooshinjohn

pearsall001 wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of ported subs either. Now with dual Velo SPL-1200R subs flanking my AAD monitors...I'm in music heaven. Seemless integration, extremely musical is an understatement to say the least. There's no turning back now.

Plus 1 on the Velo's... They are very controlled and in the system I heard them in, I did not know they were there until they were turned off.

Face

Velo SPL. Polks new subs sound great also, but we know how loud you like to listen.

ben62670

Here are the sub drivers I have.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-420
The question is what type of box to put them in. A while ago I would have considered cardboard with an air hole, but I don't think I can veneer cardboard as well as MDF:(
I really like passives, but I have never had sealed. The thing I have against sealed is that they roll off too high. My main thing is music, but I do want them to dig deep for HT use too. Also SPL is not really a major concern anymore. No more 126db burst. I hit 115 max on a rare occasion. I have matured a bit when it comes to listening. Moderate levels are more appreciated.

Ron Temple

shadowofnight has been fooking around with 15"D, 18"PR design for awhile. Don't know if he ever built it, but I do know he's got all the parts and unassembled box. You might shoot him a PM and ask. My experience with a 12/12" D/PR design from GR was very positive. I thought it hit as hard and visceral as a ported box, but was tighter and more musical. fredv has that sub now. I still miss it. That driver looks nice.

ben62670

What I like about PR's is you can tune a smaller box down low where if in the same small box you tried to port it the port would eat up the box space. Also port noise just sucks. I may shoot SON a PM. I have 2 3.3cf boxes. I may just build one sealed, and one with PR's.

tryrrthg

ben62670 wrote: »

The thing I have against sealed is that they roll off too high.

They do, but they often roll off at the same rate that room gain kicks in so if you load them up in a corner they can play lower thanks to room gain. And thanks to room gain you get a flat response down low instead of too much with ported sub, which is capable of playing lower + room gain can often lead to too much bass.

The reason ported subs often sound sloppy for music is because they play lower, and low bass is often confused with "slow" bass. A well EQ'd, or set up, ported sub can sound just as good with music - see some of REL subs. A well designed ported sub should never have port noise. if they do they are under-ported (not enough port area)

ben62670

When I did my sonosub I used a 30x6" port with around 10cf for the tube. The port noise wasn't too bad, and it was actually pretty good for music, but I am trying to get away from the ghetto looking huge system. It's great if you have a room for it, but this stuff is in my living room. The thing that kinda sucks is where my system is there are no corners unless I run them in the back of the room. Some think that bass isn't directional, and may not be at the lower ends, but I do know where it is coming from. Also timing can be a concern if I use the rear corners of the room.

Early B.

ben62670 wrote: »

I may just build one sealed, and one with PR's.

Keep it simple -- just build two sealed subs and be done with it. Build your subs for music and don't worry about how they'll perform for HT. Listen to tryrrthg.

What are you gonna power them with? What are you gonna use as a crossover?

Early B.

ben62670 wrote: »

The thing that kinda sucks is where my system is there are no corners unless I run them in the back of the room. Some think that bass isn't directional, and may not be at the lower ends, but I do know where it is coming from. Also timing can be a concern if I use the rear corners of the room.

You're right -- bass ain't non-directional. Forget about the rear corners. They belong up front with your speakers.

ben62670

Early B. wrote: »

You're right -- bass ain't non-directional. Forget about the rear corners. They belong up front with your speakers.

You've been to my place. I may end up putting the speakers where the couch is, and the couch where the system is. I would just have to make something for the roll down screen to cover the windows. Also if I did that I could get the amps out of the living room. They are good for heating, but it is about that time of year when things start heating up.
Thanks guys your opinions are very much appreciated.
Ben

tryrrthg

here is my thread from my DIY sub. the sub is 4.5 cubic feet, or so, sealed 15" sub. Room is 13x22 or so. You can get an idea what room gain can do from this post, sub was calibrated between 70 and 75 dBs and that is the volume setting the sweep was run at. It is still at calibration level at 20hz.

LINK to post

You're obviously a technical guy. Get yourself a Behringer Feedback destroyer to EQ and use Room EQ Wizard on your computer. It's a really great (free) tool to get a nice flat response.

janmike

Ben, I used to own a REL sub for music and if I ever purchased another sub just for music I would seriously consider REL. Very musical. Good luck.

ben62670

I have REW but I only have a Rat Shack SPL meter for the mic. I am not sure what I am going to do yet for the XO. I most likely will make an active unit. I do want to learn how to make bass boost circuits. I don't like lots of pots and other things in the signal path so I feel that it would be the best route for SQ. For a Q of .7 it wants a 3.4 foot box. If I went a little smaller I could stuff the chamber, and use the lower half of my custom SDA's. The top would be sealed and roll off around 90hz. The sub would have to take care of 80 and below. I may even try crossing it higher to take more load off the mids. I did read your whole thread Troy.
Thanks
Ben

tryrrthg

ben62670 wrote: »

I have REW but I only have a Rat Shack SPL meter for the mic. I am not sure what I am going to do yet for the XO. I most likely will make an active unit. I do want to learn how to make bass boost circuits. I don't like lots of pots and other things in the signal path so I feel that it would be the best route for SQ. For a Q of .7 it wants a 3.4 foot box. If I went a little smaller I could stuff the chamber, and use the lower half of my custom SDA's. The top would be sealed and roll off around 90hz. The sub would have to take care of 80 and below. I may even try crossing it higher to take more load off the mids. I did read your whole thread Troy.
Thanks
Ben

For a music sub you want a Q that is approaching 0.5, or so I have read. I would have gone that route but I couldn't build a box much bigger without really pissing off my wife...

For an X-over you could look at the Paradigm X-30, or Outlaw ICBM.

ben62670

For a Q of .5 I would need a 12^3' box! Not happening:(

tryrrthg

ben62670 wrote: »

For a Q of .5 I would need a 12^3' box! Not happening:(

That doesn't sound right... seems way too big. I don't have any way to model it at work so I guess I have to take your word for it.