7.1 surround speaker help/suggestions...

digitalvideo

I need some help and advice on 7.1 surround speaker systems. I currently own a Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 system I got off amazon.com for $299, it has HUGE speakers, it's a huge system. I previously had a Boston Acoustics 5.1 MCS-100 which had small satellite speakers and was pathetic compared to my current Onkyo. I'm wondering if my Onkyo is fully exploiting what my entertainment system offers in audio/sound and if I should look for a more expensive system that is better quality? A lot of people have said my Onkyo system for it's price is a steal and sounds better than some $1000 systems. Listening to movies on DVD and bluray sounds good, I'm not an audiofile so I don't know if I'm hearing everything I should, but when listening to music out of it I can tell it's not that great. I don't want a system with small satellite speakers. Any suggestions on a good 7.1 surround speaker system that is good quality and excellent sound/audio or should I stick with my Onkyo?

My entertainment system is:

Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro-111fd
Pioneer Elite SC-05 reciever
Pioneer BDP-05fd bluray (will be replaced with a 2.0 Pioneer Elite BDP-23fd)
Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 surround system

apphd

digital, you have some great looking gear there that are deserving of a speaker upgrade. Unless you are also willing to add an amp I would say that rules out the LSi line.
With the AVR you have I would look at the RTi A and the VM line. How big of a room are we talking? Do you also intend for this to include a sub (you should)? Do you have a preference to a type of design, (tower/bookshelf)?
How much are you looking to invest? Fill in some of the blanks and I'm sure you will get lots of help.

wutadumsn23

Like apphd said you are off to a great start with the gear you have, and depending on your budget/room size, that will dictate where you go from here. I have Monitor 70's for my fronts, 40's for my surrounds and a CS2 for my center. All said and done they cost me about $1200, they sound amazing and I am very pleased with my purchase. However, the Monitor series has been temporarily "replaced" by the TSi series so the Monitors are hard to find these days. The TSi series is an excellent choice for a "beginner" system, but if you want to fork out some extra dough, the RTi series would also be a good choice. Like apphd also said unless you want to add external amps, and spend some serious cash the LSi line is out. Also, if you don't have room for a 7.1 don't try to cram 2 extra speakers in there just to say you have one. A well setup 5.1 will sound much better than a poorly placed 7.1 anyday, IMO. Give us some more info and hopefully we can steer you in the right direction.

digitalvideo

Does Polk have a 7.1 surround speaker system all in one that comes with everything like the Onkyo system does? I don't want to buy all seperate speakers and amps. I'm looking for a combo package. I'm only familiar with Onkyo, Boston Acoustics, Altec.

digitalvideo

Thanks for your help, I have been Googling up the LSi, RTi, VM, TSi, they all look nice. They are expensive, but they seem to look like seperate speakers that you have to all buy individually? I could be wrong though. I was thinking something along the line of this = http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S9100THX&class=Systems&p=i
Which is a combo Home Theater System set, and wondering if I can get a combined package like that from Polk? If not, what do you guys think of that Onkyo surround system above?

candjhuntley

digitalvideo wrote: »

Does Polk have a 7.1 surround speaker system all in one that comes with everything like the Onkyo system does? I don't want to buy all seperate speakers and amps. I'm looking for a combo package. I'm only familiar with Onkyo, Boston Acoustics, Altec.

There's really not much of a difference b/t getting an all in one speaker package and putting something together yourself. Not every series of speakers requires an external amp. But if you look under the products tab / Home Audio / by Series - you'll see what speakers for each position are timber matched to work well with one another.

But even if you don't go with Polk - if you don't particularly like the sound of your speakers, no matter how good a deal it was, you need to change them. Even if you don't decide to go with Polk (which, obviously, around here that's where the suggestions will probably take you), there are a lot of good speaker companies out there to help you out. A good idea would be to just go to some high end audio visual stores in your area and just start auditioning speakers to find something that you like.

I have spent the past few months putting together a home theater for a friend, and i learned the rule of thumb is to spend 50/50 for audio / video. You have put together a VERY nice setup - now you need to cap it off with speakers that will make it worthwhile. If you have the fundage, definitely upgrade the speakers to the best you can afford and enjoy. You won't regret it!

candjhuntley

digitalvideo wrote: »

Thanks for your help, I have been Googling up the LSi, RTi, VM, TSi, they all look nice. They are expensive, but they seem to look like seperate speakers that you have to all buy individually? I could be wrong though. I was thinking something along the line of this = http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S9100THX&class=Systems&p=i
Which is a combo Home Theater System set, and wondering if I can get a combined package like that from Polk? If not, what do you guys think of that Onkyo surround system above?

I don't want to come across as an expert - i definitely am not and wouldn't claim to be - i'm just passing on information i've gathered over the last couple of months. But one thing i've read numerous times is that just b/c a company is great at one part of the theater, that doesn't necessarily mean they're great at another. I don't know much at all about Onkyo's speakers - but what i do know is that when i've read lists of the best speaker companies as i was narrowing down my search Onkyo wasn't on anybody's list. i ended up with speakers from Polk's LSI line btw - check out refurb prices from PolkDirect on ebay - they are directly from Polk and we couldn't tell at all they were refurbished items. They require a separate amp to run them, but for the quality of sound which - even though i've never listened to teh Onkyo - should be in a completely different class than those Onkyos.

Ultimately - it's all about what sounds good to you. And if you've listened to some Onkyos and didn't like them, is there good reason to believe the other set would be better? If so, then go for it. But do yourself a favor, take a little time, and audition different speakers at a high end a/v store to get an idea of what's out there to match your nice setup.

digitalvideo

Thank you for the advice. I think I will look closely at the Polk speakers and put together a good setup from them. I just need suggestions on specific speakers and amp. Price isn't really that big a concern, but I'm not gonna spend a fortune. Can I get a good setup from Polk under $3000?

apphd

digital, sorry I didn't realize you were looking for a HTIB solution. Polk does have some, here is the link
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/rm2008/
You may also want to look at a SouroundBar
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/surroundbar/

Building a surround speaker set up can be fun and rewarding, but also time consuming and sometimes usually at a higher cost.

I would suggest going to listen to some of what's available then decide what's right for you. As I said in my first post you have a nice set up started and if the funds are available I would seriously look at the RTi and VM speakers. If you hear something you are interested in take a look at Polk Direct on eBay link under "Where to Buy" at top of page. Newegg is also a good place to shop for Polk.

Wow just saw your last post. Yes you can do things up pretty good with $3K. Why you looking for a new amp?

candjhuntley

apphd wrote: »

Why you looking for a new amp?

I think this is in response to multiple suggestions to get one if he wants to go with the LSI series.

Yeah - for 3k, i would strongly recommend putting together a speaker system piece by piece. Yes - it can be time consuming - but oddly rewarding as well.

Perhaps some information to consider...
What size room are you trying to fill?
Will the speakers be used more for music listening or home theater?
How much does what they look like matter to you?

There are other questions that perhaps could help, that's all i can think of right now. Your answers to these questions might help those who are willing to suggest some speakers have a better of idea of what might meet your needs.

cheddar

digitalvideo wrote: »

Thank you for the advice. I think I will look closely at the Polk speakers and put together a good setup from them. I just need suggestions on specific speakers and amp. Price isn't really that big a concern, but I'm not gonna spend a fortune. Can I get a good setup from Polk under $3000?

DV,

Good to see you expanding your possibilities and looking into Polk speakers. You really do have a great set-up started that is bottlenecking at your onkyo HTiB speakers. $3000 is actually quite a lot to put together a good set of speakers. Do you have any requirements like room size, WAF, etc. that was steering you to smaller speakers? To unlock the potential of your current electronics, there are quite a few ways you could go. The RTi series would be an obvious choice as a start. They are a solid line and include bookshelf, surrounds, and floorstanding speakers. If you have the room, there just is no substitute for a good full-range floorstanding speaker for your fronts. Most information in any movie sound track goes through the front three speakers. Then a pair of surrounds for a 5.1 system and you should be able to easily best your current onkyos even with the two extra rear speakers. Or you could add a pair of RTi bookshelfs as rears if you have to have 7.1.

Then get yourself a good subwoofer. SVS and HSU are popular brands around here, but there are many brands to choose from. Again, it won't be hard to get a subwoofer that will easily dig deeper and pressurize your room more than the one included in the onkyo system.

You can save money by going this route and just power everything with your SC-05. You certainly don't need a new amp. As suggested, you should get your ears on a set-up like the one above powered by your AVR and start to audition various other speakers. The RTis may be enough or you may find you want to spend more money for another kind of sound you like better.

A possible upgrade to the RTis would be the LSi line. People seem to like these speakers for music as well as home theater. Because they are 4ohm speakers, you might consider getting a separate amp for these as they respond well to more quality power. But you've got a nice budget and great components already. So why not have some fun and just start listening to audiophile set-ups and see what you like. You may really like rumbling bass, in which case you should shift more money to a subwoofer. Or you may like listening to the subtle details in music, in which case you should give some quality floorstanders a try. Take some time to figure out what you want...it will probably save you some coin rather than responding to upgraditis later on.

digitalvideo

Some specifics on my room size, I have around 85% of my basement set up as a big entertainment room, carpeted floors, couches, a bar. The wall that the tv is attached too is 25ft long, that's the width of my basement. Ceilings are lower at 7 1/2 feet tall cause it's in the basement. The design below is what my basement is like. I'd like floor tower speakers in front on each side of the tv which can be the biggest of the set, then 1 speaker on each side and 2 speakers behind. The speakers on the side of the couch to the left and right can either be floor or wall mounted, same with the two rear speakers.


tv on this wall

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digitalvideo

Ok, the drawing didn't come out right. Don't go by that drawing, it completely came out wrong when it posted on the thread.

My room is 26ft long, the tv is hung on that wall. It's 27tf in length at it's longest.

digitalvideo

This isn't a permanent setting either, I'd like a system that I can set up in this current location but if I move some day to a bigger house that has a bigger room I can just move it in there and it will still sound fine. I'm not looking for anything grand like acoustics in Saint John The Divine. The system will be used mostly for tv/sports, movies/dvd/bluray.

candjhuntley

Yeah - that is a nice large space.

How far away is your listening area from the television? Do you have kids or pets that could knock the speakers off of stands?

I can offer my opinion - but please understand i'm very new to this myself - but i have done a LOT of reading up on this kind of stuff in the last 3 months, so here's my initial thoughts, though if i give bad information hopefully someone will correct me.

It'd be best not to try to fill the entirety of the room, just focus on the space around the seating (assuming you don't sit 27ft away from the television. Put stands around the sofa / seating for the rear speakers - and pick up either one incredibly solid, or perhaps even dual subwoofers for that space - especially if you're more into HT and not so much just music listening

And - if i might make a recommendation - if you're not AS concerned about music, dont be afraid to go bookshelf speakers in the front - which will give you exactly what you want when aided with a subwoofer (which you will have anyway) for the low end. The LSI-9s are AMAZING speakers - often called in reviews the best of the LSI line, but they're bookshelves. But they are very large and produce great sound with a sub to pick up the low frequency once they drop below 50hz.

PolkDirect on ebay hasn't had any in a week - which i find odd since they went about two weeks with at least two in auction all the time. But my friend got a pair of them for under $550 shipped (though they were going as high as $600 shipped). They are refurbished, but they are in perfect condition. He got an LSI-C for $430 shipped. He went cheaper with the surround speakers for budget considerations - but with your budget - you could either pick up a pair of LSI-7 for the sides and LSI-FX for the rears - or just LSI-7s all the way around (have been going for $350 / pr).

Of course, you'll also want to pick up an amp if you go the SLI route - but from what i understand (and i stand for correction if it needs it as i never really looked much at the LSI-7s) the LSI-7s aren't as demanding as the 9s - so you could probably get away with a three channel amp for the fronts and run the rears with your Pioneer's 130 wpc into 8 ohms (though they are 4 ohm speakers). If nothing else, you could get a 7 channel amp and be done with it, or 7 Outlaw monoblocks - but doing that will take up a lot of your budget. So basically, for 2 LSI-9, LSI-C and 4 LSI-7s from PolkDirect - possibly around $1730 - with plenty left over for a nice sub and a 3 / 5 / 7 channel amp and stands.

Just a thought for you - or there's the RTI series which a lot of people have and love - or there are a ton of great speaker companies out there that will give you some good bang for your buck. I didn't find anything better than the LSI line at polkdirect on ebay - but take your time, go listen to some different brands in shops, and start your journey (just like i very recently) into the fun world of audiophile home theater

cnh

Some great suggestions above Dvideo.

What's a little confusing in your post is you've got a GREAT receiver in the Pioneer--and as someone has said you don't need to bother with separates for that unless you go with LSIs. What I'd do for now is get yourself...two monster Rti-A9s, oneof the subs mentioned above. And the Csi-A6 matching center. You can get all that for a lot less than 3,000 and it will give you what you're missing for music. You can even run some of your other speakers as surrounds until you decide to upgrade to RtiA 1s or 3s as surrounds.

Your Pioneer will be able to power those fairly well and will sound wonderful, full, punchy, detailed and full, with great mids and a good soundstage. Two channel music will 'sing'.

Try to find a place to demo some of these speakers. You will be surprised just HOW much BETTER they will sound than the Onkyo speakers.

cnh

candjhuntley

cnh wrote: »

Some great suggestions above Dvideo.

What's a little confusing in your post is you've got a GREAT receiver in the Pioneer--and as someone has said you don't need to bother with separates for that unless you go with LSIs. What I'd do for now is get yourself...two monster Rti-A9s, oneof the subs mentioned above. And the Csi-A6 matching center. You can get all that for a lot less than 3,000 and it will give you what you're missing for music. You can even run some of your other speakers as surrounds until you decide to upgrade to RtiA 1s or 3s as surrounds.

Your Pioneer will be able to power those fairly well and will sound wonderful, full, punchy, detailed and full, with great mids and a good soundstage. Two channel music will 'sing'.

Try to find a place to demo some of these speakers. You will be surprised just HOW much BETTER they will sound than the Onkyo speakers.

cnh

Good advice - i'm just partial to the LSI-9s b/c that's what i got and haven't listened to the RTI line - but from what i've heard, they will perform very well and yes, you wouldn't need an amp, which will give you more for your sub(s) - which is where you really want to put your money in a HT setup

digitalvideo

My seating position is around 10 feet away from a 50" inch tv. Should I move the couch back or forward and how far or close should the speakers be in the setup? The setup I'd like is to try to get it as close to a movie theater experience as I can with speakers in the front, at the sides and to the rear.

I've been doing a lot of Googling of people's homes and their entertainment rooms and seeing which most resembles the size of my room and their setups. I do like the setup of 2 floorstanding tower speakers in the front on each side of the tv, 1 speaker to the left and 1 speaker to the right of the seating position and 2 speakers behind the seating position. For the amp and sub where should it be positioned strategically for best reults for my specific setup?

For the front floorstanding tower speakers I can give you an idea of what I'm looking at and interested in, I've narrowed it down to these brands and models =

Polk Audio RTi A7 3-Way Tower Speaker ($549)
Polk Audio RTi A9 Floorstanding Speaker - Cherry ($729)
Polk Audio LSi 15 ($758)
Klipsch RF-62 ($439)
Klipsch RF-63 ($599)
Klipsch RF-82 ($549)
Infinity Classia C336bk. 3-way ($570)

Out of all of those which would give the best sound? Should I go with a 2-way or 3-way reference speaker? Do you know of any other places that offer better deals?

Next I'll look for the side speakers and rear spears, amp and sub.

apphd

I think I would go: RtiA9 - CSiA6 - RTiA1 (x4) and a HSU, SVS, Epik or eD sub. I think you would have a slammin' set up and should fall in under or at the $3k figure with some shopping around.

If you think multi ch music may become part of your requirements substitute (2) RTiA3 for the side surrounds and use (2) of the a4's for rears.

cheddar

Yep, for a movie/sports room, I'd concentrate your money on a nice set of fronts like the RTiA9s and a slammin' sub. For the size of your room, the onkyo sub must have one heck of a time trying to pressurize it. You should be pleasantly suprised at the difference if you pick up a sub from one of the companies above.

Once you pick your fronts, you should timbre match the rest of your speakers by just getting surrounds from the same line. Your fronts and your sub will be doing the heavy lifting for this set-up, so concentrate on those first and just fill in the rest later. Not sure why you still want to get an amp for this system. You can get a sub that has its own internal amp and drive an entire RTi set-up off the AVR you have. Getting an amp will open up even more options as far as speakers go, but you will soon blow your budget and may be looking at rapidly diminishing returns if all you're using it for are movies and sports.

As far as best sound goes, you really need to listen to the speakers and decide for yourself. The Klipsch and Polks will give you different sounds, not a best sound. So audition them and see which you like better.

People usually recommend corner placement for the sub. But have a friend move it around with you in the primary listening position to get the best results.

digitalvideo

Thanks for all the help, I'm writing all this down. I got the front. side and rear speakers taken care of, they'll all be from Polk. I'd like to stick with Polk for the complete setup and was wondering what you recommend for a Polk sub? PSW10 or PSW12 or PSW111, PSW110, PSW125?

digitalvideo

apphd wrote: »

I think I would go: RtiA9 - CSiA6 - RTiA1 (x4) and a HSU, SVS, Epik or eD sub. I think you would have a slammin' set up and should fall in under or at the $3k figure with some shopping around.

If you think multi ch music may become part of your requirements substitute (2) RTiA3 for the side surrounds and use (2) of the a4's for rears.

Ok, so go with two RTi A9 front tower speakers and 4 RTi A1 speakers for the sides and rear?

vijayl

For Sub, PSW 505 shud work great for ya

candjhuntley

For a sub - i'd actually follow other recommendations from above and go with a company like SVS, HSU, ED, epik - for the LFE, you don't need to worry about timbre matching or anything like that, just get the best sub for what you're wanting to do

Depending on what your remaining budget is like, if i were you i'd dump a LOT into your sub choice with a room as large as it is

digitalvideo

For a center speaker, should I invest heavily in that or go with a Polk CS2 or CSi A6 or CSi A4?

candjhuntley

Your center is very important with HT as it carries the dialog - i wouldn't skimp on it - i'd go with the A6 if i were you

Also - unless i'm mistaken, the A4 and A6 are the ones timbre matched with the A9s - so i wouldn't even consider the CS2 if i were you - but between the A4 and A6, if your budget allows - go ahead with the A6

apphd

digitalvideo wrote: »

Ok, so go with two RTi A9 front tower speakers and 4 RTi A1 speakers for the sides and rear?

Yes that is one good option, but there are a couple others.

digitalvideo wrote: »

Thanks for all the help, I'm writing all this down. I got the front. side and rear speakers taken care of, they'll all be from Polk. I'd like to stick with Polk for the complete setup and was wondering what you recommend for a Polk sub? PSW10 or PSW12 or PSW111, PSW110, PSW125?

I think for the size room you are talking about, I think you would want (2) PSW125 or DSW Pro 600 if you really want to stick to Polk. There's a lot of good things being said about the DSW line of Polk subs. This wasn't always the case with the PSW line. For the movie theater experience you are looking for I would still suggest SVS, HSU, Epik, and eD for value/performance.

digitalvideo wrote: »

For a center speaker, should I invest heavily in that or go with a Polk CS2 or CSi A6 or CSi A4?

Again for what it sounds like your expectations are YES do not go cheap here, if you want to save some $$ till later go 5.1 and move up to 7.1 later.

This is all based on my opinions with limited experience. After you digest all the info you are getting (research is good) spend just as much time going out and listening to as much as you can get your ears to.

quadzilla

digitalvideo wrote: »

For the front floorstanding tower speakers I can give you an idea of what I'm looking at and interested in, I've narrowed it down to these brands and models =

Polk Audio LSi 15 ($758)

I'm kind of in the same spot you are; just starting off. But I did want to pass along one thing I learned recently, as I have the same receiver.

Your SC-05 is only rated 6-16 OHM on the outputs. The LSi's are all 4 OHM. That's not a good match. I know, because I toyed with the idea of LSi series, until I realized that little road block to the idea. Or you could do the LSi's, but you'd need to run a seperate amp that's rated to 4 OHM off the 05's pre-outs.

candjhuntley

quadzilla wrote: »

Your SC-05 is only rated 6-16 OHM on the outputs. The LSi's are all 4 OHM. That's not a good match. I know, because I toyed with the idea of LSi series, until I realized that little road block to the idea. Or you could do the LSi's, but you'd need to run a seperate amp that's rated to 4 OHM off the 05's pre-outs.

Yeah - if you keep looking, he is including an amp in his price to run the LSI series if he goes that route - but that is the main reason, i believe, that he has ruled out the LSI line and is looking at the RTI line

digitalvideo

quadzilla wrote: »

I'm kind of in the same spot you are; just starting off. But I did want to pass along one thing I learned recently, as I have the same receiver.

Your SC-05 is only rated 6-16 OHM on the outputs. The LSi's are all 4 OHM. That's not a good match. I know, because I toyed with the idea of LSi series, until I realized that little road block to the idea. Or you could do the LSi's, but you'd need to run a seperate amp that's rated to 4 OHM off the 05's pre-outs.

So if I went with the RTi A9 or A7 route with front tower speakers will either of those work fine with the Pioneer SC-05 reciever with no amp? I don't know if I want an amp, I was told I don't need an amp and can just run it through the reciever since I'm using it for mostly movies and tv, I won't be using it for music.

candjhuntley

If you used teh RTi line - you should be fine without an amp from what people are saying. If you went the LSI line - you'd need an amp. So if i were you, i'd stick down the path the RTi series - take the extra you'd have paid for an amp and put it into your sub(s) and center