Taking advantage of Pioneer '51's Wolfsen DACs

cabbiepimpin
cabbiepimpin Posts: 10
edited April 2009 in 2 Channel Audio
Hello folks...newbie here. Great crowd here (as opposed to, say, the AVS crowd).

Curious: I just received my new Pioneer BDP-51FD to go along with my existing Denon AVR1909. I would really like to take advantage of the Pio's Wolfsen DACs for CD listening/two-channel audio.

How should I go about this? Use the 2 channel analog outs on the back of the Pio? How do I make sure I bypass the DACs in the Denon so that my CD music is converted only by the Wolfsen DACs in the Pio? Does bass management being performed by the Denon essentially defeat what the Wolfsen DACs are doing?

Thank you!!
Sony KDF-46V3000
Denon AVR1909
Fronts: RTi8
Center: CSi3
Surrounds: OWM3
Sub: HSU STF-2
Blu-Ray: Pioneer BDP-51FD
Speaker cables: VH DIY Cat5 Blistered Finger Specials
Post edited by cabbiepimpin on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited March 2009
    Use the analog outs and make sure you set your AVR to use the analog ins when set to stereo mode.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited March 2009
    Like Shack said, just use the 2 ch. analog outs and the DAC's in the Denon will be bypassed. Using a digital cable, such as a coax or optical cable, bypasses the internal DAC's of the player, and uses the DAC's in the AVR.

    Welcome to Club Polk.:)
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cabbiepimpin
    cabbiepimpin Posts: 10
    edited March 2009
    Thanks for the help...glad to finally be part of this community!

    So I don't have to run a "source direct" or use the "ext. in" input on the Denon? I still want the Denon to perform bass management, and to use its Audessey settings.

    Sorry for all the questions...I'm just now learning the joys of true 2-channel stereo...up till now, I've just simply used a simple optical dig. connection with the thought that digital always trumps analog. Plus, I've never owned a CD player approaching anything close to audiophile-grade.
    Sony KDF-46V3000
    Denon AVR1909
    Fronts: RTi8
    Center: CSi3
    Surrounds: OWM3
    Sub: HSU STF-2
    Blu-Ray: Pioneer BDP-51FD
    Speaker cables: VH DIY Cat5 Blistered Finger Specials
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited March 2009
    I run analog from my CDP into my older model Denon AVR (1802) and my input mode is set to analog. It bypasses the AVR's DAC. It still allows me to run a sub through the LFE of the AVR.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited March 2009
    shack wrote: »
    I run analog from my CDP into my older model Denon AVR (1802) and my input mode is set to analog. It bypasses the AVR's DAC. It still allows me to run a sub through the LFE of the AVR.

    Just a question as different avrs may behave differently, but if you use analog inputs from a source component (like a CDP) and bypass the avr' DACs by putting the avr into a "pure direct" mode, many avrs will shut off any sub connected up via the LFE connection: because it is a 2-channel mode only where the avr is really just an 'old schold' integrated amp in this mode.

    Mine does.

    So, it is an either/or decision:
    1) play a CDP in a 'pure' analog mode using the CDP's DACs and NOT have the sub on,
    or
    2)choose to keep the sub active thru the avr LFE connection, but the avr's DACs are put in the path, defeating an analog path from the CDPs DACs.

    or.... you could use speaker level or line level connections to your sub - and not use the avr bass management, but that way at least the sub would be on when 2-channel source listening via an analog path from the CDP's DACs.

    Its all about what works for you and what sounds best....to you.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited March 2009
    Erik Tracy wrote:
    Just a question as different avrs may behave differently, but if you use analog inputs from a source component (like a CDP) and bypass the avr' DACs by putting the avr into a "pure direct" mode, many avrs will shut off any sub connected up via the LFE connection: because it is a 2-channel mode only where the avr is really just an 'old schold' integrated amp in this mode.

    Mine does.

    Mine doesn't. It can be set to allow the signal to be sent to the sub via LFE .
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2009
    I own a Denon as well. You can turn off your sub from the remote. Set your fronts to full range and use analogs as suggested and 'pure audio' mode if that model has something like that.

    DACs in player are all you'll see.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,081
    edited March 2009
    cabbiepimpin wrote: »
    or use the "ext. in" input

    So should he/we use the analog input labeled "CD IN" or use the analog input "5.1 channel IN - Fronts" or do they both do the same thing?:confused:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • SEH
    SEH Posts: 91
    edited March 2009
    cabbiepimpin wrote: »
    Thanks for the help...glad to finally be part of this community!

    So I don't have to run a "source direct" or use the "ext. in" input on the Denon? I still want the Denon to perform bass management, and to use its Audessey settings.

    This last part conflicts with what you're trying to achieve. Audyssey and bass management are done digitally in the AVR. Give it an analog signal, it will re-digitize it.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • SEH
    SEH Posts: 91
    edited March 2009
    shack wrote: »
    Mine doesn't. It can be set to allow the signal to be sent to the sub via LFE .

    But there is no LFE signal in 2 channel. Filtering a stereo source into sub and mains usually involves a digital crossover somewhere, doesn't it?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    edited March 2009
    Yes please take advantage of those DAC's. I was shocked well not really as Pioneer and Elite have been making excellent dvd players that double as cd players and sound so damn good doing so.
    I'm seeing that Denon making it's way to ebay or somewhere else and a nice sc05 taking it's place. then you can take advantage of the Wolfson DAC's with everything you listen 2, not to mention you can run your 51 in just HDMI and not have to have analog there unless you also using multiroom.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dfranks
    dfranks Posts: 207
    edited March 2009
    So let me get this straight...
    If I run my 51, to the receiver using HDMI I won't be getting the benefit of the Wolfeson DAC?.

    If I run 2CH analog I will?

    If this is the case,can I hook both up simultaneouosely to get the benefit of both worlds? IE. 2hc to CD-in HDMI to DVD in?

    I just purchased this player and am completely amazed at the quality of sound and picture this unit produces.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • NewHTguy
    NewHTguy Posts: 584
    edited March 2009
    Does anyone know if the DACS in the Pio 51 are the same as in the Elite Sc 05? I know they both use Wolfson's, but I believe I read that the Pio's DACs are slightly inferior. Can't remember where the heck that was.
    MAIN: Polk Lsi9s; Polk PSW505; Lsic (in box); Onkyo SR-875; Parasound 2250; Cambridge Audio 740C; LG BD370
    OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
    BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2009
    dfranks wrote: »
    So let me get this straight...
    If I run my 51, to the receiver using HDMI I won't be getting the benefit of the Wolfeson DAC?.

    If I run 2CH analog I will?

    If this is the case,can I hook both up simultaneouosely to get the benefit of both worlds? IE. 2hc to CD-in HDMI to DVD in?

    I just purchased this player and am completely amazed at the quality of sound and picture this unit produces.

    You've got it. If you use digital ins the Denon's DAC's kick in and the Wolfeson's are bypassed. So yes, analogs into the Denon. CD inputs are fine.

    Can you also hook up into HDMI, probably. Don't know if you're player will output both simulatneously?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • NewHTguy
    NewHTguy Posts: 584
    edited March 2009
    Just want to correct my insinuation. Here is what I read
    "The BDP-51FD shares many features of the Pioneer's successful step-up model, the Award-winning BDP-LX71.
    ...
    The biggest difference is that this entry-level model has to make do with a slightly lower-grade video DAC (12-bit/108MHz as opposed to 12-bit/216MHz on the 'LX71).
    "
    This comes from
    http://whathifi.com/Review/Pioneer-BDP-51FD/
    MAIN: Polk Lsi9s; Polk PSW505; Lsic (in box); Onkyo SR-875; Parasound 2250; Cambridge Audio 740C; LG BD370
    OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
    BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,081
    edited April 2009
    Another question about this player:

    Is it as slow playing CD's as Blu Rays? I would think not, but just want to confirm.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited April 2009
    Since its relevant, here is a link to Erik Tracy's thread on essentially the same topic.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cabbiepimpin
    cabbiepimpin Posts: 10
    edited April 2009
    Conradicles wrote: »
    Another question about this player:

    Is it as slow playing CD's as Blu Rays? I would think not, but just want to confirm.


    I would say it is still on the slower side when playing CDs, but it is quicker than blu-ray loading. I came from a Sony BDP-S300, so ANYTHING for me is an improvement in time.
    Sony KDF-46V3000
    Denon AVR1909
    Fronts: RTi8
    Center: CSi3
    Surrounds: OWM3
    Sub: HSU STF-2
    Blu-Ray: Pioneer BDP-51FD
    Speaker cables: VH DIY Cat5 Blistered Finger Specials
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,081
    edited April 2009
    Is it possible to use both the 7.1 channel analog output and the 2-channel analog out?

    What I mean is, I would use 5.1 analog out to my receiver for BlueRay movies since my receiver does not have HDMI.

    Then when I want to listen to CD's use the 2-channel output from the 51 to my "CD in" on my receiver.

    Would that work?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter