Vinyl is ridiculous . . .

2

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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited March 2009
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    no it is not.


    RT1

    Well, maybe not nowadays but, it used to be. (except for ancient direct cut methods) I'll guarantee that any "record" from the 50s thru mid 80s was transcribed from a TAPE master !:p
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited March 2009
    gdb wrote: »
    Well, maybe not nowadays but, it used to be. (except for ancient direct cut methods) I'll guarantee that any "record" from the 50s thru mid 80s was transcribed from a TAPE master !:p

    Ry Cooder's Bop 'Till You Drop was the first major label digitally mastered "rock" album. 1979.
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  • TSWisla
    TSWisla Posts: 446
    edited March 2009
    Evanguy2004 wrote: »
    I grew up with vinyl. I guess in a perfect world with no dust, pops or warpness vinyl might sound better than CDs. Also it sounds like having the state of the art cleaning equipment and turntable helps too. I still have all my old LPs from the 1970's and 1980's. I bought a nice Sony turntable from a garage sale a few years ago for like 5 bucks. I picked up a nice cartridge needle set from Best Buy too. I have it set up in my rack connected to my AVR 1706. I might have to give them a spin again to compare vinyl vs. CD digital. Besides the pops, skips and warping I never liked getting up after 20 minutes to flip the LP to the other side. I love my 200 disc Sony CD player. Once I hit play I'm good to go for like 2 weeks of solid music listening with ever getting out of my comfy chair!!

    Having a good way to clean the records is key. You can eliminate 99% of the noise if the record is cleaned properly. Records are without a doubt much more of a hassle than cds, but I believe that it is worth the extra effort.
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited March 2009
    I miss my TT. I rearranged my gear and it's not hooked up now. Can't wait to hook it up again, for which I need a long IC I'm waiting for.

    Yup, vinyl is a pain to clean etc, but it sounds soooo good, and there's so much music for cheap. The other issue I have is I don't have a decent place to store records, and they are all over the place. Need to think of something, soon.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
    Ricardo wrote: »
    The other issue I have is I don't have a decent place to store records, and they are all over the place. Need to think of something, soon.

    Milk crates.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited March 2009
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Milk crates.

    Are records best stored vertically or horizontally? If horizontally then is it okay to stack them. If vertically then should they be perpendicular to the floor. If not then it would seem they could bend. It appears there is a market for $500 milk crates for audiophile record storage. :)
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Vinyl is by far the best thing on the planet...cd dose not even come close.

    My problem is...I have at least 7-8 good old milk crates full of vinyl.....
    the good records have been played so much.....the scratches, everything just comes out...in some cases the groves are just worn out .

    I can clean them and 1 song comes out OK....but after that.(depending on the record).not good.
    They have just been over played. I will never get rid of them....and just play 1 song at a time.....but, I find no cleaner, or what ever to fill the bill....also the rehad stuff.

    To pay $600 for a cleaner......i don't see....
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  • BigMac
    BigMac Posts: 849
    edited March 2009
    Have an extra 3 million burning a hole in your pocket? If so you could have the worlds largest record collection all to yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7F_4S2lgM
    DON'T CLICK THIS!!
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Are records best stored vertically or horizontally? If horizontally then is it okay to stack them. If vertically then should they be perpendicular to the floor. If not then it would seem they could bend. It appears there is a market for $500 milk crates for audiophile record storage. :)

    Vertically and perpendicular to the floor. Stacking them horizontally or having them vertically at an angle will cause warping.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
    BigMac wrote: »
    Have an extra 3 million burning a hole in your pocket? If so you could have the worlds largest record collection all to yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7F_4S2lgM

    I wish I could make that fellow an offer.
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  • Polkersince85
    Polkersince85 Posts: 2,883
    edited March 2009
    Ricardo wrote: »
    ....The other issue I have is I don't have a decent place to store records, and they are all over the place. Need to think of something, soon.

    I used two Gorilla racks from Sam's and merged them for the extra side struts.

    Here's a portion of my everyday users.
    >
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    >This message has been scanned by the NSA and found to be free of harmful intent.<
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited March 2009
    Hey Guys,

    In a less visited thread, here: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79688&highlight=solidsqual

    Hearingimpared and I discussed the importance of checking your system as it breaks in. Let me just stress how important this is. Now that I've finally found some gear that I am hanging on to, things definitely settle over time. I've had to makes lsight adjustments to my TT, speaker placement, acoustic treatments, furniture placement, and listening position to get the sound just perfect. Please, please check your systems to make sure you are getting what you paid for.
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  • Norm Apter
    Norm Apter Posts: 1,036
    edited March 2009
    Quick question. Everyone talks about the painstaking process of cleaning records. Must this only be done when you purchased used records or is this regular upkeep, like polishing a pair of leather shoes. Obviously, vinyl -- unlike shoes for most of us -- is protect in between plays in sleeves. But I'm still wondering if cleaning is apart of regular upkeep.

    Norm
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited March 2009
    Norm Apter wrote: »
    Quick question. Everyone talks about the painstaking process of cleaning records. Must this only be done when you purchased used records or is this regular upkeep, like polishing a pair of leather shoes. Obviously, vinyl -- unlike shoes for most of us -- is protect in between plays in sleeves. But I'm still wondering if cleaning is apart of regular upkeep.

    Norm

    I clean new or used records extra hard before they even touch my table. My records are recleaned with my RCM every time before they are played.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
    ^^^true dat^^^
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited March 2009
    I use shelving units from Staples. Each is 72" x 28" x 12" . Each will hold around 750 LP's but the shelves sag a little from the weight so I need to brace them a little in the middle. The pictures show about 1300 records total from a start of 0 in Feb. '08. No record gets put on the table without a thorough cleaning (old or new). Also a carbon fiber brush with a ground wire on the record just before play. I use my own home made cleaning formula made from tergitol 6 and 9 and distilled and reverse osmosis water with a distilled reverse osmosis water rinse. Each LP is bagged in new poly bags. Oh by the way, that's one of my RTi70 surrounds in front of the vinyl stacks.
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  • EFanning
    EFanning Posts: 60
    edited March 2009
    I need to improve the cleaning, clamp work, cartridge and storage connected with my records and my Philips GA-312 turntable and it still sounds better than my CDs on a Yamaha CDC-905.

    I have a late 1990s Yamaha receiver. I need improvement there too.

    Without question, CDs are easier. But even in a budget system, records dominate in sound quality.

    Also, if you have little kids, they love records. You gotta make some heroic saves when they rush toward the system, but it's fun for everyone.

    I challenge the CD faithful to name a better experience than playing "Good Day Sunshine" from Revolver for a little kid that says "Play records daddy" and then runs around holding the record case.

    Also, think about the wins in that scenario. You look like a champion dad. Your system matters to someone else in the house aside from you. There is real educational value for the kid. You can buy records "for the kids."

    And, Beatles albums on CD just sound thin.
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  • Norm Apter
    Norm Apter Posts: 1,036
    edited March 2009
    EFanning wrote: »
    And, Beatles albums on CD just sound thin.

    Well, without knowing it, you may have just made the most persuasive argument for me to give vinyl a try.

    The Beatles are my favorite band, bar none, of all time. I've got all of their standard albums on CD, plus the Anthology sessions and the most recent Love release. But you are absolutely right...the sound quality is just not there. Up until this point, I kept thinking...when are they going to go back and digitally re-master the entire catalog? But now I'm thinking, hey maybe analog (i.e. vinyl) could be the holy grail solution....I wish "record stores" had actually record/vinyl listening stations the same way they do for CDs. If there was such an option, I'd run out now and see what my ears have been missing when listening to Beatles CDs.
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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited March 2009
    Norm Apter wrote: »
    Well, without knowing it, you may have just made the most persuasive argument for me to give vinyl a try.

    The Beatles are my favorite band, bar none, of all time. I've got all of their standard albums on CD, plus the Anthology sessions and the most recent Love release. But you are absolutely right...the sound quality is just not there. Up until this point, I kept thinking...when are they going to go back and digitally re-master the entire catalog? But now I'm thinking, hey maybe analog (i.e. vinyl) could be the holy grail solution....I wish "record stores" had actually record/vinyl listening stations the same way they do for CDs. If there was such an option, I'd run out now and see what my ears have been missing when listening to Beatles CDs.

    Norm, you won't regret it. I just purchased a Technics SL-1300, nothing fancy. Added a Clearaudio clamp recommeded by hearing impared and could not be happier.

    My wife has all the Beattle albums but I hate them, but getting a TT has made her happy and afforded me some relief for spending money on the clamp and new cart.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2009
    BigMac wrote: »
    Have an extra 3 million burning a hole in your pocket? If so you could have the worlds largest record collection all to yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7F_4S2lgM

    I can't believe that no one has made an offer.......Theres got to be some rich vinyl addict out there somewhere....
    Testing
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2009
    BigMac wrote: »
    Have an extra 3 million burning a hole in your pocket? If so you could have the worlds largest record collection all to yourself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7F_4S2lgM

    Heres a little longer version of it with a better picture quality...

    sorry, that didn't work.

    Heres the link instead:

    http://www.vimeo.com/1546186
    Testing
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  • Norm Apter
    Norm Apter Posts: 1,036
    edited March 2009
    Just saw this article about vinyl in Austin, TX in the online edition of the NYT.

    http://travel.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/travel/08surfacingcol.html?8dpc
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Vinyl cleaning is the only down fall. You have to clean, all the time..LOL
    But also the quality of vinyl has gone down over the years. My collection runs from the 60's..thru...well, till they really stoped makeing it, for the most part. Big difference in the thickness and quality.

    But still....beats the hell out of cd's....just night and day. Nothing like Live Cream or Live Allman's..even played on a moderate type system.
    I wish all my records were still.."playable"....at least alot..are not. They were just over played..and in "party" mode...LOL
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  • krankwald
    krankwald Posts: 19
    edited March 2009
    bobt wrote: »
    Vinyl cleaning is the only down fall. You have to clean, all the time..LOL
    But also the quality of vinyl has gone down over the years. My collection runs from the 60's..thru...well, till they really stoped makeing it, for the most part. Big difference in the thickness and quality.

    But still....beats the hell out of cd's....just night and day. Nothing like Live Cream or Live Allman's..even played on a moderate type system.
    I wish all my records were still.."playable"....at least alot..are not. They were just over played..and in "party" mode...LOL

    Question for you - what does an "overplayed" record sound like, generally speaking? As a relative newbie to vinyl, I purchase a lot of used records and clean them on a VPI 16.5 - *however*, some of them just sound awful, with lot of grating distortion in the high end, even after several cleanings. I believe this is due to groove damage from years past, but am not sure.

    My new records and a good percentage of my used ones play just fine, so I've ruled out improper TT setup...
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Well you kind of hit the nail on the head " sounds awful, grateing noise etc:"

    You can kind of equate records to tape...the more you play a tape, the oxide wears away, so dose the sound quality. Same with vinyl. You can clean them till the cows come home, but just never really going to sound better.

    I have tried some "vinly restore" products over the years. I some cases it dose help quite a bit. But it only lasts for a couple of plays. In the end, it gets quite expensive, to keep using this stuff...LOL
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  • krankwald
    krankwald Posts: 19
    edited March 2009
    I'd go broke on that stuff considering I listen to each record probably 2-3 times per month (collection is still in it's infancy). I've got this one Grateful Dead record that looks to be in pristine shape, but there's a hard clipping sound when the dynamics get loud, particularly in the high frequencies. It's not a smooth analog-type distortion at all, which tells me it's damage. I tweaked my cartridge alignment but it was almost perfect to begin with, and the sound still persists.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
    krankwald wrote: »
    I've got this one Grateful Dead record that looks to be in pristine shape, but there's a hard clipping sound when the dynamics get loud, particularly in the high frequencies. It's not a smooth analog-type distortion at all, which tells me it's damage. I tweaked my cartridge alignment but it was almost perfect to begin with, and the sound still persists.

    Or some crud imbedded that you can't see.
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Well Krank, welcome to the world of vinyl....LOL What may look unscratched, sometimes, is not. The Greatful Dead, put out a lot of records, espeacilly live stuff. In some cases,just not recorded that well. There was even boot leg vinyl, which was really bad..LOL
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited March 2009
    I've got several records that look pristine but in fact have a lot of ticks and pops. Sound like a crackling fire. All the cleaning in the world doesn't remove it and yet the LP's look perfect.
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    Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
    Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
    Fongolio wrote: »
    I've got several records that look pristine but in fact have a lot of ticks and pops. Sound like a crackling fire. All the cleaning in the world doesn't remove it and yet the LP's look perfect.

    Frequently that is due to the fact that the LP was not allowed to cool thoroughly in the press before it was removed. A typical symptom of this is the outer tracks are crackly but the inner tracks sound fine.


    A lot has to do with the cartridge too. When I went with a high end cartridge I noticed that the ticks and pops on records became un-noticable.
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