LFE or not to LFE? That is the Question

Evanguy2004

When I looked at the rear of my new PSW111 Sub Woofer, I was immediately confronted by three ways to hook this puppy up to my AVR 1706 Denon.

1. Right and Left RCA jack

2. LFE Sub Woofer single RCA Jack

3. Speaker Wire (right/left)

Bottom line, if my Denon AVR 1706 Receiver supports the LFE Sub Woofer jack is that the best hook up for optimal sound sub woofer bass sound?

wutadumsn23

I am no expert as to which is better than the other, but I have my sub hooked via subwoofer cable to the LFE port and am not dissapointed at all in it's performance. I have never tried any other means of hooking it up, but I would suggest the LFE option if it is available to you.

disneyjoe7

If you can connect to LFE from the AVR, I would go that way.

leroyjr1

+1 avr to LFE

dorokusai

Lfe.

Motzart

+1 AVR to LFE
Sub out on AVR right to the LFE on Sub.

From Wikpedia
Low-Frequency Effects (LFE) is the name of an audio track specifically intended for deep, low-pitched sounds ranging from 3-200 Hz. This track is normally sent to a speaker that is specially designed for low-pitched sounds called the subwoofer or Low Frequency Emitter. While LFE channels originated in Dolby Stereo 70 mm film prints, in the 1990s and 2000s they became commonplace in home theater systems used to reproduce film soundtracks for DVDs.



*** Side note***
While about every Sub has a place to hook your speakers in......
I'd never do it and don't see the reason why there is even the option?
(Maybe someone can clear this up for me?)
I want my sound to my speakers direct from the AVR.

wutadumsn23

[QUOTE=Motzart;1018652*** Side note***
While about every Sub has a place to hook your speakers in......
I'd never do it and don't see the reason why there is even the option?
(Maybe someone can clear this up for me?)
I want my sound to my speakers direct from the AVR.[/QUOTE]

I feel the same way, and always wondered why that would even be an option. Spending all that money on a nice AVR, just to have your sub push your speakers??

Evanguy2004

What do you mean by +1 in the sentence +1 AVR to LFE. I take it the AVR refers to the Denon model pre lettering like AVR 1706 is my model number.

On a side note I changed my Crossover to 80 htz from 120 htz. I think with three days of tinkering with this thing I finally found the sweet spot! My wife says to me last night "What you just don't just plug it in and turn it on"? Woman in general just don't get this sound facination that men have do they? I told her to think of speakers as their shoe obsession. lol

disneyjoe7

+1 is in agreement to a message posted above.


And yes on the 120hz setting on the sub, the sub as a crossover which is this setting. But its best to set sub to the highest setting and allow the AVR in setting crossover point.

rdb2001

I am going to go against the grain and say red/white rca's using a y splitter. I have had it hooked up to just the lfe on the back of my subs, but when I switched to the red/white rcas because it was suggested to me on another forum, I heard a noticable increase in sound. They were louder than before at the same volumes. for 4 bucks extra ( cost of a y splitter) I dont see why you couldn't try both the lfe and buy a y splitter and and try it and see what u like. Just my opinion also.

comfortablycurt

wutadumsn23 wrote: »

I feel the same way, and always wondered why that would even be an option. Spending all that money on a nice AVR, just to have your sub push your speakers??

In that situation the sub isn't pushing your speakers, that more or less a signal pass through to the best of my knowledge.

They have that option because not all AVR's have LFE outputs. Some people use subs in their 2 ch. rigs as well, and a lot of 2 ch. pre-amps don't have LFE outs.


+1 on the LFE output. That's how my sub's hooked up. I've tried using a Y-splitter, and using the speaker level inputs, and for my setup LFE worked the best.

evanguy-AVR is an abbreviation for "Audio/Video Receiver", which is what you have.

ChrisD

Doesn't the LFE port ignore the sub's internal crossover? Use that.

Evanguy2004

rdb2001 wrote: »

I am going to go against the grain and say red/white rca's using a y splitter. I have had it hooked up to just the lfe on the back of my subs, but when I switched to the red/white rcas because it was suggested to me on another forum, I heard a noticable increase in sound. They were louder than before at the same volumes. for 4 bucks extra ( cost of a y splitter) I dont see why you couldn't try both the lfe and buy a y splitter and and try it and see what u like. Just my opinion also.

So are you saying you go out of your LFE with a single RCA jack and then on the other end use a splitter on the other end to connect to the two RCA jacks on the sub woofer? If this isn't what you meant then I am confused on where you would connect the dual RCA jacks on the AVR,

rdb2001

Evanguy2004 wrote: »

So are you saying you go out of your LFE with a single RCA jack and then on the other end use a splitter on the other end to connect to the two RCA jacks on the sub woofer? If this isn't what you meant then I am confused on where you would connect the dual RCA jacks on the AVR,

That is exactly the way I am talking about. Like I said, for a minimal investment you can try it out and see which way you like.

Evanguy2004

So why do you think two RCA jacks are better than just one? Since Low Frequency through the single Sub Woofer is mono why would a dual RCA crank up the bass better than just one jack going through the SW LFE?

rdb2001

Evanguy2004 wrote: »

So why do you think two RCA jacks are better than just one? Since Low Frequency through the single Sub Woofer is mono why would a dual RCA crank up the bass better than just one jack going through the SW LFE?

It was suggested by someone else from another forum for me to try it out. I tried it and instantly noticed that they were louder and had a fuller sound IMO. Like I said its a minimal investment to see which way sounds better to u

Chameleon2

Curious on the LFE vs speaker level (wire) comparison:

- is there a difference in frequency range to the subwoofer between these 2 connections?
- is there a difference in signal power to the subwoofer between these 2 connections?

Erik Tracy

I'll stir the pot....;)

Couple of reasons that may cause someone to consider going 'speaker level' connections to your sub:
1) You like listening to your AVR in "Pure Direct" AND not have your sub go silent. If you put an AVR in a "Pure Direct" mode the sub turns off because this is 2-channel only mode. Kinda sucks to have your sub turn off when connected via the LFE/Sub output.

2) Your avr does not have enough granularity in xover control to properly blend your speakers and sub. Some avrs have bass xover frequencies that go from 40 hz to 200Hz in 20 Hz increments only. Sometimes it is hard to properly blend your sub to match the sweet spot crossover. Using speaker level inputs on the sub allows you to use the continuous pot adjustment on the sub to find that perfect high pass freq to blend the sub with the fronts.

[disclaimer] I have drunk from the koolaid cup and have my sub connected via the LFE/sub out on my avr. I have obediently complied with setting my front speakers to small and the xover freq to 60Hz. I like koolaid.

Erik

P.S. I used to be a rebel and ran my sub via speaker level inputs and deep down still disbelieve the non-sense about the harmful effects of LFE signals to bookshelves and overtaxing my avr with burdensome bass. But, resistance is futile....I have been assimilated....;)

John K.

Evan, connecting to the two inputs on the sub rather than the single input does in fact result in higher sub output at the same volume setting. The reason is that the two voltages being input are combined by the sub amplifier and a doubling of voltage is equivalent to a 6dB increase. This really isn't of any significant benefit, however, since nearly all receivers have the capacity to output more than enough voltage on their sub outputs, and simply raising the sub trim level on the receiver slightly while using the single sub input results in the same volume increase. So, as was said, it's best to use the single "LFE" input which bypasses the internal low pass filter in the sub and allows the receiver to do its crossover job without interference.

Mike21

Hi Evanguy.

What does your User Manual say about the inputs?

Most of the women I have known were obsessed with diamonds.:eek: So, which is smarter, spending $10,000 on an AVR system or $10,000 on a piece of diamond jewelry? :rolleyes:

Motzart

Mike21 wrote: »

Hi Evanguy.

What does your User Manual say about the inputs?

Most of the women I have known were obsessed with diamonds.:eek: So, which is smarter, spending $10,000 on an AVR system or $10,000 on a piece of diamond jewelry? :rolleyes:

Depends on if you want some bump bump or some thump thump!

Evanguy2004

My manual on my Denon recommenes the LFE and since I have found the Channel boost on my AVR to turn up the Db on my SW I am now a Thumper and not a Bumper:cool:

Thanks again for all of your input....Now anwer the question what exactly is this toggle switch called "Phase" on the back of my PSW111? I posted this as a separate topic but I just received 1 response and it was confusing. I just hate knobs on my equipment that I don't know what it does.

Evanguy2004

Erik Tracy wrote: »

I'll stir the pot....;)

Couple of reasons that may cause someone to consider going 'speaker level' connections to your sub:
1) You like listening to your AVR in "Pure Direct" AND not have your sub go silent. If you put an AVR in a "Pure Direct" mode the sub turns off because this is 2-channel only mode. Kinda sucks to have your sub turn off when connected via the LFE/Sub output.

2) Your avr does not have enough granularity in xover control to properly blend your speakers and sub. Some avrs have bass xover frequencies that go from 40 hz to 200Hz in 20 Hz increments only. Sometimes it is hard to properly blend your sub to match the sweet spot crossover. Using speaker level inputs on the sub allows you to use the continuous pot adjustment on the sub to find that perfect high pass freq to blend the sub with the fronts.

[disclaimer] I have drunk from the koolaid cup and have my sub connected via the LFE/sub out on my avr. I have obediently complied with setting my front speakers to small and the xover freq to 60Hz. I like koolaid.

Erik

P.S. I used to be a rebel and ran my sub via speaker level inputs and deep down still disbelieve the non-sense about the harmful effects of LFE signals to bookshelves and overtaxing my avr with burdensome bass. But, resistance is futile....I have been assimilated....;)

Thanks for taking a different view on this question. I enjoyed reading your thoughts. I too am drinking the Kool aid and have adjusted all of my speakers on my system to Small, I am currently using a 80 hz X/O setting and I have connected my new PSW111 to a single cheap RCA jack that sounds fine.

NewHTguy

If I recall correctly REL, which is one of the most musical subs out there, recommends using speaker wire. This is consistent with Erik Tracy's suggestions.

Mike21

Hey Mozart -

Sex never crossed my mind;). For me, its all about investments.

Been into audio for over 30 years and still don't know what "phase" is. I just toggle back and forth to see what sounds better.

Motzart

Mike21 wrote: »

Hey Mozart -

Sex never crossed my mind. For me, its all about investments.

Been into audio for over 30 years and still don't know what "phase" is. I just toggle back and forth to see what sounds better.

Who said anything about sex? :rolleyes:
What a dirty mind you have...shame on you! :D

Evanguy2004

So what the heck is this Phase Toggle? I am so confused

Retro152

Evanguy2004 wrote: »

So what the heck is this Phase Toggle? I am so confused

The phase switch, 0 to 180 degrees allows you to put your sub in phase with your speakers if need be. Bass freq. can cancel each other out, so you might have to reverse polarity. I have mine set at 0. Have someone flip the toggle back and forth to hear what sounds best as you listen to your setup.

Evanguy2004

retro152 wrote: »

The phase switch, 0 to 180 degrees allows you to put your sub in phase with your speakers if need be. Bass freq. can cancel each other out, so you might have to reverse polarity. I have mine set at 0. Have someone flip the toggle back and forth to hear what sounds best as you listen to your setup.

Thanks Retro for explaining this Phase Toggle to me. I am new to the world of sub woofers. I will try doing this today. Initially when I was flipping the toggle I could not tell the difference.

danger boy

Evanguy2004 wrote: »

Thanks Retro for explaining this Phase Toggle to me. I am new to the world of sub woofers. I will try doing this today. Initially when I was flipping the toggle I could not tell the difference.

if you can't tell the difference, then don't worry about it..

I use one RCA cable from my AVR to the subwoofer LFE input. no need to split the signal into two .

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid as the saying goes.

Evanguy2004

danger boy wrote: »

if you can't tell the difference, then don't worry about it..

I use one RCA cable from my AVR to the subwoofer LFE input. no need to split the signal into two .

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid as the saying goes.

Thanks Danger. I love the KISS method. Its been almost a week since I purchased my new PSW111 from Circuit City ($149.99 new in box!!). I have been in this tinkering mode with finding the optimum space and settings for the sub. At first it was too soft because I didn't know I could up my Db setting on my Denon AVR 1706. Now I have some good bass sound coming from my Sub Woofer I was monkeying around with the Phase Toggle and I think only my dog heard the difference.

I live by the KISS method too. I use one cheap RCA jack from my LFE jack in my Denon to the back of my PSW111 (Sounds great). Now with the extra Dbs I have sending to my SW it sounds nice. Now I just have to find the optimum spot in my great room for the SW. In my other post you helped me determine if the corner would be good. I know my wife would be thrilled if she didn't have to look at the PSW111 (I think it looks hot) and it was behind a chair. Does any woman understand the importance of sound? Why is it just men (For the majority at least) that appreciate sound. Speaking just for me, my wife would be happy if I set up a 3" mono speaker from a transitor radio (Circa 1972) to power the sound on my 60" Samsung 1080P DLP. I think she has a tin ear at times. When I had everything fired up last night watching an action packed movie (Blu Ray) with all the Polk Audios firing in unison all she could say to me is...Can you turn it down!! The worst four words to a guy after spending a **** load of money to create movie theatre sound. :mad:

PS: Are there women on these boards who are power users on speakers? I am sure there. I am just not married to one. When I took my PSW111 out of the box last Sunday not only did I take a lot of **** on buying it in the first place (Even though I paid 50% off) she couldn't figure out why it took the good part of the day to set it up and have it match with the Crossover of my other speakers. She said to me...Don't you just take it out of the box, set it up and plug it in? Am I the only guy that gets this kind of abuse on my love for good audio equipment? Music and sound is truely a love of mine and brings me happiness in this crazy world the we live in.