12AX7A rolling Jolida 100 what to try next?
erniejade
Posts: 6,321
I am thinking of changing out the 12AX7A's in my Jolida cd player. Any suggestions on what one to try next? I do like the warm sound of it right now but, I am looking to get a bit more on the highs.. More like my turntable.
Unless the cd copy is that bad, I did a A/B on Santana Abraxas cd ( regular cd) and the vinyl ( regular also) and the vinyl on the Denon DL160 cart. through a project tube box SE II, just killed it. The difference was night and day.
The Jolida. The sound was warm, laid back but, lacked any dynamics. The treble was OK but not sharp. The bass was a little muddy. Vocals seemed hidden.
On the turntable, the highs jumped right out at you, you could hear each bongo or drum being hit. The vocals just jumped right out at you like you just took the curtain off.
Now I am not saying the Jolida is a bad player. It could be the mastering of the CD is horrible also. I have run into this on several CD's though like Dave Brubeck time out. the LP is way more dynamic then the cd. Actually the cd ( regular ) sucked so bad I got rid of it. Same with Pink Floyd the wall. The cd on both all of a sudden had the highs cut, like you put the high filter on the preamp, and hiss.
Now some of the new CD's like plant krauss, The cd on that is fantastic! Same with ray lamontagne either trouble or Gossip In The Grain. Good recordings on cd.
Soooooo this is what got me thinking I should try a different set of tubes.
Sooooo.... back to the original topic at hand 12AX7A what ones to try next?
Unless the cd copy is that bad, I did a A/B on Santana Abraxas cd ( regular cd) and the vinyl ( regular also) and the vinyl on the Denon DL160 cart. through a project tube box SE II, just killed it. The difference was night and day.
The Jolida. The sound was warm, laid back but, lacked any dynamics. The treble was OK but not sharp. The bass was a little muddy. Vocals seemed hidden.
On the turntable, the highs jumped right out at you, you could hear each bongo or drum being hit. The vocals just jumped right out at you like you just took the curtain off.
Now I am not saying the Jolida is a bad player. It could be the mastering of the CD is horrible also. I have run into this on several CD's though like Dave Brubeck time out. the LP is way more dynamic then the cd. Actually the cd ( regular ) sucked so bad I got rid of it. Same with Pink Floyd the wall. The cd on both all of a sudden had the highs cut, like you put the high filter on the preamp, and hiss.
Now some of the new CD's like plant krauss, The cd on that is fantastic! Same with ray lamontagne either trouble or Gossip In The Grain. Good recordings on cd.
Soooooo this is what got me thinking I should try a different set of tubes.
Sooooo.... back to the original topic at hand 12AX7A what ones to try next?
Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
Post edited by erniejade on
Comments
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What brand of tubes are you using now?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
My favorite in the Jolida was the Sovtek 12ax7LPS...
Nick -
I run the EI Gold Pins and from time to time I put in Some Sovtek LPS's. The EI's have more bass and smooth top end where the Sovteks seem to have tighter but less bass and sharper ( not harsh ) mids and top end. The Sovteks seem to be better for rock type music and the EI are great for blues, and Female vocals. All of this is of course based on my equipment and room characteristics. YMMV.
ScottI like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D -
nikolas812 wrote: »My favorite in the Jolida was the Sovtek 12ax7LPS...
Nick
These are very good for the top end,cheap also...You might try some cheaper Russian made Mullards also (probably from the same plant as the Sovteks)...I just rolled these in and they sound pretty good from top to bottom. -
You might find improvement from a better power cord if you are using a plain stock one. No need to spend a thousand dollars to see an improvement over a basic stock power cord if that is what you are using. Find a dealer who takes returns if you don't like it. Might want to double check your interconnects also.
Just a suggestion.:p -
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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That should answer your question,any one of the suggestions in that thread would be far better tubes than the stock Chinese crap that came with the player...and the Power Cord upgrade mentioned is a must also. -
ernie
I have a great idea.
Sell it to me, buy a Rotel its a good unit and you won't have to worry about tubes.
Just drop me a PM when your ready.
Thanks -
I second the power cord. I noticed a big difference when I swapped out the stock cord for a aftermarket cord. I believe it was from PS audio.
Nick -
That Jolida needs to be modded to bring out the best sound. But first, I agree with changing out the stock power cord. Also drop in some Groove Tubes 12AX7M (Mullard copies).HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes." -
nikolas812 wrote: »I second the power cord. I noticed a big difference when I swapped out the stock cord for a aftermarket cord. I believe it was from PS audio.
Nick
Hey Nick
How does the power cord effect the performance?
Drew -
It lowered the noise floor which in turn made the CDP more detailed and separation of instruments was better. It was night and day in my setup. Don't ask me why this happedned because I don't know. Its one of things you just have to try and hear for youself.
My Jolida tube amp responded the same way. I never had another peice of equiptment respond so well to a better PC like I did the Jolidas I owned..
Nick -
Thanks for all of the replies. I will have to read the thread posted by treitz3
F1 I am using Sovtek 12ax7LPS is what is in the unit now. I would like a bit more out of the high end and more detail on the bass. More like my turntable if possible... I know I am asking a lot LOL.
NJPOLKER, now that is funny. The Rotel does have some good units but, to be honest, for the $ I thought the Jolida was more musical to my ears. It is funny you mentioned that player. I just auditioned it!
Last weekend, I got to hear the new Rega Apollo cd player and a Rotel 1072. They both sounded great. Between the two, I liked the Rega better for a extra 200$. Now throw the Jolida in the mix,,,, 3 good cd players for under $1000 each... To me, I though the Jolida was just a smoother sounding and more detailed player to my ears. This was with stock tubes at a shop.
This is just my opinion.
Now if you would like to know what I was using at the shop I was visiting to make my determination, .. Well.... You know the old saying picture speak louder then words..
The McIntosh MC 2301 300 watt per channel mono TUBE amp it what I was listening to.
The 1.2 KW was sitting behind it but, I was more interested in the 2301
The preamp, McIntosh C1000 tube
Speakers for listening to,
I was using the B&W 802 Diamond for speakers.
The cd player I liked better then the 3 mentioned above, was the MCD1000 McIntosh with a MDA D/a on it but, you are talking 100X the price.
Anyway, Please feel free to make a suggestion for a tube that will keep the bass I have but give me more on the high end.
Please also forgive my camera phone not pro i know but, it didn't do too bad.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
I believe the member here SolidSqual has been to the same showroom.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=72663
Nice stuff, I'd love to get my ears on some of that gear."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
If he lives near Indianapolis then I bet he has LOL.
It was a 3 hour drive for me. This is where I picked up the SDA 1.2. Rick there at audio solutions is a real nice guy!Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
Ernie,
In that case, I'd have to suggest the Ei 12AX7. Long out of production, but there should be some on eBay and at The Tube Store, http://thetubestore.com/ei.html
However, before doing that I'd suggest upgrading the stock power cord. It will make a huge difference.
Another worthy upgrade would be changing the stock output caps.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Looking at his pics yep that is the place. Great people to deal with. Besides the Polk SDA I did buy a McIntosh amp used not new and not tube. I would completely recommend them to anyone.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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F1 thanks for the tip. I will look for a set of the tubes. the caps are stock. The only things I have done is dynamat, Tubes, and Audioquest NRG-2 IEC power cord. I know I know, I need to get a better one that that.
I was thinking of trying Kimber PowerKord14 GOLD next. I am always open to suggestions.
Thanks again!!Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
Ah, I wasn't aware that you had already changed the power cord. Anything should be an improvement over the stock cord. Did you notice anything?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Thanks for all of the replies. I will have to read the thread posted by treitz3
F1 I am using Sovtek 12ax7LPS is what is in the unit now. I would like a bit more out of the high end and more detail on the bass. More like my turntable if possible... I know I am asking a lot LOL.
NJPOLKER, now that is funny. The Rotel does have some good units but, to be honest, for the $ I thought the Jolida was more musical to my ears. It is funny you mentioned that player. I just auditioned it!
Last weekend, I got to hear the new Rega Apollo cd player and a Rotel 1072. They both sounded great. Between the two, I liked the Rega better for a extra 200$. Now throw the Jolida in the mix,,,, 3 good cd players for under $1000 each... To me, I though the Jolida was just a smoother sounding and more detailed player to my ears. This was with stock tubes at a shop.
This is just my opinion.
Now if you would like to know what I was using at the shop I was visiting to make my determination, .. Well.... You know the old saying picture speak louder then words..
The McIntosh MC 2301 300 watt per channel mono TUBE amp it what I was listening to.
The 1.2 KW was sitting behind it but, I was more interested in the 2301
The preamp, McIntosh C1000 tube
Speakers for listening to,
I was using the B&W 802 Diamond for speakers.
The cd player I liked better then the 3 mentioned above, was the MCD1000 McIntosh with a MDA D/a on it but, you are talking 100X the price.
Anyway, Please feel free to make a suggestion for a tube that will keep the bass I have but give me more on the high end.
Please also forgive my camera phone not pro i know but, it didn't do too bad.
Ernie.... your gear is FANTASTIC!!!! all I could think when I saw all this stuff was F#@! me!!! If you EVER need a house sitter I happily volunteer:p:DThe Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Yes big time. It cleaned up the mids actually more then putting the Sovtek's in. I honestly never had that much of a difference in the power cords with a cd player as I have with this one. I was shocked.
ActuallyF1, it was you that recommended I change the cord on a different board! I think the kimbers should do a better job. I was looking at a few other ones to try out but for the $ the Kimber seems to get better reviews. I am open to suggestions on a cord change over the NRG that is for sure.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
nooshinjohn not my gear I wish it was !!!! I don't think i have the power in my house to run what they have there!! LOL
That was the audio shop I visited this weekend in Indianapolis called Audio Solutions.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
address please!!! I am an hour from there and I am so there tommorow!!!The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »address please!!! I am an hour from there and I am so there tommorow!!!
Calm down and take a deep breath, everything you need to know is here."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
http://www.theaudiosolutions.com/
6371 Guilford Ave
Indianapolis, IN 46220
Phone: (317) 255-4434
11am - 7pm
Tuesday through Saturday
Monday by appointment
Closed Sunday
The person I delt with is Rick who is a retired DR! Everyone I talked to there was great to deal with.
If you see rick just tell him the guy with the polks and integra amp he will know who you are talking about. LOL.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
THX!!! not the Lucas one....The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
ActuallyF1, it was you that recommended I change the cord on a different board! I think the kimbers should do a better job. I was looking at a few other ones to try out but for the $ the Kimber seems to get better reviews. I am open to suggestions on a cord change over the NRG that is for sure.
I see...lol
By all means, try the Kimber. I use a PS Audio Statement.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
just looked up a review on it and they say "Similar Products Used:
Kimber PK10 (good cord but not in the same league as the Statement)"
Guess I have my answer!!
Thanks again for the help!!Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
Ernie,
In that case, I'd have to suggest the Ei 12AX7. Long out of production, but there should be some on eBay and at The Tube Store, http://thetubestore.com/ei.html
However, before doing that I'd suggest upgrading the stock power cord. It will make a huge difference.
Another worthy upgrade would be changing the stock output caps.
+1 on the Ei. They have a very natural sound. The Tung-Sol re-issues have better highs but are quite forward.
The power cord upgrade is very nice as well. -
The best 12AX7s I ever heard were the RCA/Raytheon Black Plates. They bested the revered Telefunken Smooth plates(diamond bottoms), Mullards, EHs, Sovtek LPS, and the Amperex. All were used in a Dodd MLP , Jolida JD301A and Anthem One amp. YMMV.
They cost less than a third of most of them, too. Except EH and Sovtek."SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
