Sda 1c vs lsi 15/25

bobt
bobt Posts: 280
edited March 2009 in Vintage Speakers
Here's my problem. I have a set of SDA 1C (studio) that i've had forever.
They have not been used in the last 3 or more years, due to were I've been living(just not enough space to use them) Even before i just stopped useing them, at least 1 driver(if not more) were in need of replacement.

Basically, everything needs to be replaced. They still have the 2000 tweets..everything has to go..X over upgrades.ETC:

Even at club prices, I'm up to at least $800 (probably min)

In looking at Polks ebay site..they have "refurbished" which i'm not sure what that means, per say, but Polk warrenties them.
LSI 15 and LSI 25 for $899-999

I have not heard either of these speakers, nobody around here has them.
I'm not sure about the side fireing woofer thing. These will only be used as a 2 channel system, records, cd's. I play mostly rock, classic rock, blues and classical. I do play them LOUD..nothing like live Cream played at concert volumes...LOL

The speakers will be placed in a (about) 15x 25 foot room, right now there is carpet on the floor. But will probably be changed to hardwood, with throw rugs. 9 foot ceilings. There will be couches, tables...living room stuff thru out the room.

I'm hopeing the LSI's would sound better..updated electronics, new design and all......this of course could be dead wrong...LOL

Any thoughts from people who have had both these speakers, and which of the LSI would you buy, the 15 or the 25.
Thanks.
Post edited by bobt on
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Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,746
    edited March 2009
    Fix up the 1C's.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Well F1..can you elaberate on why?
    I've heard some people think the LSI stuff is layed back..which i don't think the SDA stuff is. But, are you saying the new speakers, are just not as good as the SDA's????
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited March 2009
    No,, they just don't make SDA's anymore, as I'm sure that you are aware,and having owned LSI 15's,I would much prefer the 1'C's anyday.For me the 15's bass was unmanageable,plus it took alot of high current/power to drive them properly. For less than the price of a pair of 15's,,your 1c's could be tweaked to the max,,a great price to performance ratio.Tweets,caps,resistors,,and still have some money to put towards an amp,(tubes).Good luck.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited March 2009
    I own both and prefer the 1Cs over the 15s for everything except piano pieces. It isn't that the piano sounds bad on the 1Cs, the piano simply seems too big on some material with them.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • stubby
    stubby Posts: 723
    edited March 2009
    Not exactly the same comparison, but I owned a pair of Lsi9's for a while, and though I loved the detail, they just did not have the SDA soundstage. Nor were they designed for it.
    With my SRS 3.1's, (modded X-over, tweets, binding posts) I have the detail the original SDA's did not have. And I have that great imaging.

    My vote goes for the 1C's.

    stubby
    SRS 3.1TL
    Harman Kardon Citation 5.1
    Anthem AVM2



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  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,315
    edited March 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Fix up the 1C's.

    Fix up the 1C's....times 2
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2009
    It seems you want us to say go with the Lsi's, maybe that just how I am reading into this question. You probably can't go wrong with either one.
    1c's are the way to go and if you are somewhat of a DIY'er you can have some fun doing upgrades.
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    OK..interesting. The sound stage of the SDA...is one of a kind....and probably draws us all back to these speakers.

    The comment about bass on the 15's..im not sure. I have enough power to drive these. Onkyo integra M-504...plenty of power.

    Is the LSI 25...a better speaker?......i don't expect the soundstage of the SDA.....but is it that bad??????
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    No NJ...I just want frank opinons on these speakers, since i have never heard them. For the music i'm playing..the room size, and volume.
    I have no trouble rebuilding them..I will never sell them anyway......

    But I thought Polk.....MAY have made some better speakers at this point, that were worth looking into....thats all.
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2009
    My frank opinion is you should rebuild the 1c's you currently have. Maybe put $300. into them and you'll thank us after the new components burn-in. Since you are going to keep them you really should re-build them. The components are old at this point and should be replaced.
    Polk has built different speakers not necessarily better speakers over the years.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited March 2009
    I have auditioned the LSI's before I bought my 1c's and I found them to be so bright as to be painful for me to listen to. They are nice thru the mids but seem to be somewhat lacking at the bottom. My 1c's on the other hand are very tight and clear from a fairly deep bottom end thru the mid range. I am replacing my SL2000 tweets with ther newer RDO-194's and have been told this will result in a much inproved higher end over stock. You mentioned above that you need to rebuild your 1c's, and it is my belief that once your 1c's are restored you will be in total two channel bliss. the other thing to suggest is a good strong amp to drive them whether you choose to go with a 40watt tube or a 400watt mega amp you will be glad you kept them. On the other hand, if you really want something new, take the LSI25
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited March 2009
    bobt wrote: »
    No NJ...I just want frank opinons on these speakers, since i have never heard them. For the music i'm playing..the room size, and volume.
    I have no trouble rebuilding them..I will never sell them anyway......

    But I thought Polk.....MAY have made some better speakers at this point, that were worth looking into....thats all.

    Polk has always made good speakers, but both the SDA line and LSi line have average component quality (crossover parts) within their designs. World class components aren't usually part of the recipe, as Polk has always preferred to present their lines as great sound values in each of their respective categories. Upgrades to both SDA and LSi are well documented here on the forum, so choose a route, do the research and enjoy the trip.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2009
    They each have their own strong points.

    From a modded standpoint, 1C's will have a wider soundstage and better bass(tighter and more plentiful), but LSi's will be more resolute.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2009
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    I have auditioned the LSI's before I bought my 1c's and I found them to be so bright as to be painful for me to listen to.
    What powered them, a Yamaha receiver with all silver cables?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited March 2009
    Face wrote: »
    What powered them, a Yamaha receiver with all silver cables?

    they were at fry's and were being driven by a yammy... not certain on the wires;)...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • m00npie
    m00npie Posts: 697
    edited March 2009
    Face wrote: »
    What powered them, a Yamaha receiver with all silver cables?

    Ding!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited March 2009
    my SDAs are now on a Carver TFM-35...:D
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,746
    edited March 2009
    Well F1..can you elaberate on why?

    A more realistic and coherent presentation.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Ivorytooth
    Ivorytooth Posts: 14
    edited March 2009
    Another vote for the SAD 1Cs. I love mine!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,214
    edited March 2009
    I've heard/owned the LSi line and I currently own the SDA 1C's. I prefer the SDA's by a wide margin. There is nothing like them. The bass is much better (more accurate, tighter and deeper) and the soundstage cannot be matched.

    The LSi's are great speakers, and it's not really a fair comparison as they do things completely differently. Fix up the 1C's and you'll be very, very happy.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,214
    edited March 2009
    bobt wrote: »
    The comment about bass on the 15's..im not sure. I have enough power to drive these. Onkyo integra M-504...plenty of power.

    Is the LSI 25...a better speaker?......i don't expect the soundstage of the SDA.....but is it that bad??????

    Power has nothing to do with the bass in this particular instance. It helps vs. low power; but the issue with the LSi bass is with the design more than it is with the electronics. Again the LSi's are a very nice speaker..............but compared to the SDA's, as different as the end result is.........I've always found the bass on the 9's, 15's and 25's to be a bit bloated, not very linear and less organic than the SDA's. It doesn't dig anywhere near as deep as the 1C's either.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • geppy1
    geppy1 Posts: 3,075
    edited March 2009
    This may or may not help but I purchaesed a pair of LSI15s about 2 years ago and compared them to Vandersteen 2CE sig , and Monitor 10s. The LSI15s were very impressive ,at first and I hoped this was the ticket . They are very clear and well defined with alot of bass. However after some comparisons they did not fair so well. First bass should be there when it should be there, not all the time. People talk about RTA 12s being alittle thin. Mine shake the whole house WHEN they should. The bass is down were it should be not not a midbass bump. Thw 15s almost seemed like the bass was disconnected from everything else like a subwoofer and the sound stage while sharp in image was very small. When I pulled the 10s out to compare the stage got much larger and my wife commented that it now sounded like a real person singing in front of her. My brother took them home and compared them to his LS90s. He called back and said they are nice but there is very little ambience or openess about them. The LSI15 is a very nice sounding and looking speaker but for me it seemed more like something geared toward the home theater crowd. Just not for me. I will have a huge report on the LS90,RTA 12 shootout. Very interesting. keith
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,211
    edited March 2009
    I upgrade the SDA 1C's and I wouldn't look back. In a heartbeat. If you do get dead set on the LSi lineup, I'd recommend the 9's over any of them.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited March 2009
    I have both, 1C's and LSi15's, and overall I like the LSi's better. 1C's have a better sound stage and a little better lower end, but the LSi's have a much better high end. I think LSi's also are very critical of the recording quality, they won't hide it but when the recording is excellent you are also rewarded, more than makes up for the bad recordings. If I'm in mood for Dire Straits I will most likely power up the SDA's, if it is The Doors, Patricia Kaas or Pavarotti then it's LSi's.
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Thanks guys for all the input. Like I said I will never sell the 1C's..I will probably just go the whole upgrade route.
    Right now I'm in an upgrade mode...LOL I haven't bought anything new in 20 years and have the bug. I used to run the 1C's in conjuntion with a set of Advent studio monitors (in a large room), just to take the strain off the 1C's to fill the room.

    I may not be able to do that, in my new house, due to doors, leading to the deck at the other end of the room.

    I was thinking of using a sub with the 1C's..keep in mind this is just a 2 channel system....Once again, just to take some strain off the 1C's.
    I'm not a big fan of sub's...but done right, can be good. Don't know if anybody has done this, or if this will screw up the soundstage of the 1C.
    If so..what sub would you use with the 1C's?

    Thanks
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2009
    It sounds like you need to upgrade your amp more than anything.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,214
    edited March 2009
    Typically with the correct amplification the SDA 1C's do not need a sub. I suppose in a very large room where you were sitting a great distance away a sub could help. But in general I'd say a sub is not remotely necessary.

    What are your room dimensions and where will you be seated during listening?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Yeah, your probably right, It never needed bass help before...LOL
    I have more then enough power...never been a problem, Onkyo Integra M-504

    Like i said, i'm in an upgrade mode.....I haven't been able to play LOUD music in 3 years..or even use the 1C's in that time. Can't wait to move....LOL
    So I'm kind of a kid in a candy store mind frame at this point......LMAO

    I will be buying a Jolidia JD-100A..cheapest price so far is $779.

    I'm also looking into some kind of tube, or hybred pre amp....to try and put some tube "warmth" into cd's. (along with the JD) I may go with a Vincent piece....but nothing that isn't close to 2K...has no Phono....which means I have to go with an out board box, which i'm not fond of....If they still made everything in Vinyl....I would never have a cd player.

    I have a bunch of milk crates full of records, from the 60's on. But most have been so over played, the groves are just worn out of them.

    Once i move....I may buy a set of LSI 15's.(from the Polk ebay store).while I fix the 1C's...just to compare the 2..if the 15's don't come close....well then, they go to tv duty...LOL

    I've looked at other speakers over the years..some very nice and big name.
    Some of the cheaper(thats a realitive term with these) Martin Logan..very nice, but with out a good sub..say the 1K range..they just have no bottom.
    Same with Magies. I've looked at the new stuff out there....just not even close in the price range. I even considered the Axiom M80V2...which you can't find in a store..you have to order them..then have 30 days to return them. They do put out massive sound levels and bass, but are sooooooo brittle in some ranges as to be ear killers, or just unlistenable. Or at least some reviewers have found.

    After having the 1C's for over 20 years....it's very hard to find anything that comes close for less then $2500. Or even more to be honest.
    I would love to find a LARGE set of the SRS...LOL.....but thats a real wish. Nobody will ship them, they have to be within driving distance...which will probably never happen, there just are not that many out there.

    If anybody has a suggested speaker..that would be better...LOL...please let me know.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2009
    Do you use your SDA interconnect? I believe the 504 is a dual mono design, and may cause some issues with the interconnect in place.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Ok...yes it is a dual mono block..heavy as crap...but don't understand the question.
    The 1C's have always had the interconnect cable attached..never had a problem...and with this amp will probably kick your face off, with the 1C's.

    This amp was underrated for power in the 90's.(i think they only listed it a 165 wpc)..and was really classified as one of the best.

    So I don't understand the question??????...why would you think this would cause a problem with dual mono blocks?
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