Fighting foreclosure ? 3 magic words ?

mrbigbluelight · February 2009

"Produce the note"

Interesting video, IMO.

http://www.consumerwarningnetwork.com/

Here's another video that displays what difficulties homeowners are facing, even with the help of their Congressperson:

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sucks2beme · February 2009

Bottom line. Bailout money went down the crapper. Same *hit,
different day. If you have good credit, they will call you 20 times
in a month to offer a refinance at the new lower rate. And of course
roll all those "closing costs" back into your loan. The high risk guys,
sorry, you lose. We should of just let it roll on it's own. It will run it's
course with or without a bailout.

shack · February 2009

I've seen this more than once now. It's garbage. It delays the foreclosure...nothing more. The original note may not be readily found, but there IS an electronic copy somewhere. It will be found and an electronicaly saved copy of the original is a legal document in every court in this country. At some point the foreclosure can and will be completed.

I am not unsympathetic to the plight of many...but it is not a one way street. Lenders made loans expecting them to be paid back. They took collateral as a secondary source of repayment. The lender has a right to the property if the borrower can't pay the loan. Why is is ok to live in a home you are not paying for? This whole thing pisses me off...both as a banker and a solid citizen who lives below my means, saves for bad times, pays my bills on time and will ultimately pay for both the bankers that screwed up AND the people who can't afford a home they had no business buying. :mad:

nadams · February 2009

Produce the note? That real estate agent I heard about bought a house for 39k, and now owes $145k through refinancing and remortgaging....

Correct me if I'm wrong... and really, please do... but isn't that additional mortgage burden on the homeowner ? IE- their problem?

shack · February 2009

nadams wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong... and really, please do... but isn't that additional mortgage burden on the homeowner ? IE- their problem?

Not anymore. Thanks to recent "policy" decisions, it is now OUR problem.

Whatever happened to paying for what you bought and/or borrowed. All I hear on TV and radio and the internet are ways to NOT PAY WHAT YOU OWE. It is now the big bad lender's fault that people couldn't/wouldn't live within their means. Lot's of people feel that because they made the decision to buy a house...and the market turned south on them...that for some reason THEY should not have to bear that cost. If not them...who should? They are walking away from mortgages that they could pay...but choose not to because it now isn't worth what they paid for it.

Sometimes **** happens. You lose a job, incur catastrophic medical costs, natural disasters, etc. There are remedies and help for those instances...maybe bankruptcy...but there is relief. But I have no sympathy for people who HAD TO HAVE a bigger house, a better car, this, that and everything else...and are now struggling. To effing bad.

dkg999 · February 2009

I'm in agreement with Shack's comments on this mortgage mess. And unfortunately giving money to the banks is only going to direct that money to where they can make the highest returns, ie not into the hands of the people it was intended to help (overlooking my opinion on whether or not we should help them).

Shack - I believe some sympathetic judges and law enforcement officials are now saying they won't issue court orders or force evictions if the original documents with original ink can't be produced. It's a stalling tactic, but maybe pretty effective in today's electronic imaging world.

dragon1952 · February 2009

sucks2beme wrote: »

Bottom line. Bailout money went down the crapper. Same *hit,
different day. If you have good credit, they will call you 20 times
in a month to offer a refinance at the new lower rate. And of course
roll all those "closing costs" back into your loan. The high risk guys,
sorry, you lose. We should of just let it roll on it's own. It will run it's
course with or without a bailout.

How true. My wife called our lender the other day to find out the status of our tax statements and they offered us a new loan at a 1.625% lower rate for a total of just $750 in closing costs. We'll save around $600 a month.

SKsolutions · February 2009

Let them all fail. The world will be a better place.

"down the crapper"? How do we know? There isn't even a receipt, and no one has any accounting.
The first bailout was supposed to be a form of quantitative easing, and we know from Japan that it won't work. . especially when many banks in this country are 3X their leverage ratios. Mix in the rest of the garbage, and it's not worth the expense of printing the study let alone funding the bailout. It's a theft and a fraud.

reeltrouble1 · February 2009

I pay a mortgage and listen to music, someday I will not pay a mortgage, I will always listen to music, sometimes I fish, then I listen to music, sometimes the stars align perfectly and never mind what I do when this happens.

RT1--Keep Breathing, that's the key.

obieone · February 2009

WOW! That video was REAL subtle:rolleyes:

venomclan · February 2009

Add this to the mix.

We know of a family in our area that has not paid their mortgage for 2 years, yet still live in the house. It has nothing to do with the note. The bank realizes that they will never sell the house for anything near what is owed in this economy. They also realize that many people who are evicted trash the house on the way out. So they just let them stay there, paying the utilities and "maintaining" the property so that the house is in good order and the bank does not have to pay additional costs for maintenance on an evicted property. It is a long term stategy, but that is all they have in this world now.

It boils our blood that we and others pay our bills while they live scott free. Venom

thuffman03 · February 2009

I started to write this huge comment but I decieded not to. Lets just say that I am not happy with taking on the debt of others and forgiving debt to those who spent more than they have. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions. It seems like no one is ever responsible anymore for themselves. It is always some one elses fault.

ohskigod · February 2009

venomclan wrote: »

Add this to the mix.

We know of a family in our area that has not paid their mortgage for 2 years, yet still live in the house. It has nothing to do with the note. The bank realizes that they will never sell the house for anything near what is owed in this economy. They also realize that many people who are evicted trash the house on the way out. So they just let them stay there, paying the utilities and "maintaining" the property so that the house is in good order and the bank does not have to pay additional costs for maintenance on an evicted property. It is a long term stategy, but that is all they have in this world now.

It boils our blood that we and others pay our bills while they live scott free. Venom

shouldnt bother ya bud. you will have your asset in the long term, they wont. in theory they should be saving money at least but you know they arent. remember, you would much rather be you then them. never let anyone else's situation bother you too much.

not being preachy, just adding some perspective. with utilities and taxes on a house, they arent saving as much as you might think if they were renting somewhere else.

Knucklehead · February 2009

My Wife and I have been living in the same house and paying our Mortgage for the past 15 years, weve used our "grace" period but have never been late, I dont want to pay for someone else's Mortgages BUT sometimes people do need help for valid reasons. I dont mind helping the less fortunate for the RIGHT reasons, certainly its not the Govt's fault that the hairbrained lenders made bad loans....but what do you do kick a family to the curb, or help them on their feet? Im all for helping for the right reasons!:)

shack · February 2009

Being a banker I know the mortgage business pretty well...so I would like to take this opportunity to totally trash Wa-Mu and the company that bought them J.P. Morgan/Chase. I am going to refinance my home. I only have mortgage debt currently. A primary mortgage, a HELOC and a small mortgage on a "kiddie condo" I own. My wife is also a manager of a large Credit Union. We've sort of farted around and not refinanced our primary mortgage, but decided now was a good time to go from the 22 years outstanding now to 15 years and lower the rate to current market rates (already been approved at a local CU for 4.5%). We have lots of local banking contacts and would prefer not to go with our own institutions for the obvious privacy issues.

Anyway, I thought before I went through the whole refinance hassle, I would give the current lender an opportunity to keep a "good" loan. We have made every payment on time for 8 years. The loan is appx 55-60% of the value of the home based on current market prices. Our credit scores are in the high 700s/low 800s. My mortgage payment including taxes and insurance is appx. 7% of my gross monthly income and my total debt ratio is about 12%.

So I called up Wa-Mu. The first person I talked seemed to have an Indian accent and I had to ask her to repeat everything she said because I could not understand (obviously the infamous outsourced call center). We started the transfer tango with me explaining to each person what I wanted, ie; to reduce my term to 15 years at market rate. After 5 different people I was transferred to the "modification division". This was for folks who can't make and/or haven't made their payments. For little or no fee, the rate on their loan will be lowered, payment lowered and possibly even some of the principal forgiven. Since I am a solid citizen, good customer with excellent credit, excellent financial condition, with good income and little debt...I was ultimately transferred to Todd the loan consultant with J.P. Morgan/Chase (the 7th person I spoke with during the hour I was on the phone). Todd informed me that if I would submit a non-refundable $500 processing fee and a $350 appraisal fee they would consider refinancing my mortgage but they might want me to pay off and/or reduce my 2nd mtg. HELOC. Even though I told him my income, outstanding debt, credit scores, etc... he could not quote me a rate or terms. I told him that I would not be interested in going through all of that until I knew whether or not he would be competitive with the market. I told him I thought they might like to keep a "good" loan and should consider simply modifying the terms of my existing loan for a fee to do so. He said that Chase did not do that. I asked him to quote me a payoff or direct me to someone who could and he basically hung up on me.

Moral of the story...in todays mortgage environment...if you are in over your head and can't pay....you are the darlings of the industry and they will bend over backwards to help you. At least at Wa-Mu/J.P. Morgan/Chase.

If you are a great customer, with little risk...pay through the nose or screw you!

Screw Wa-Mu/J.P. Morgan/Chase. My business is going to someone who wants it.

DollarDave · February 2009

Knucklehead wrote: »

....certainly its not the Govt's fault that the hairbrained lenders made bad loans.... QUOTE]

Study up on CRA (Community Reinvestment Act) and see if you change your mind about who's at fault for the marginal loans.

PhantomOG · February 2009

shack wrote: »

Moral of the story...in todays mortgage environment...if you are in over your head and can't pay....you are the darlings of the industry and they will bend over backwards to help you. At least at Wa-Mu/J.P. Morgan/Chase.

I'm surprised Wa-Mu/Chase doesn't haven't a program that would have helped you. I went through the same process about a year ago with Citimortgage. They have what's called a "streamline" refinance, where all I had to do was pay a $250 app fee and they reduced my interest rate by .5%. Of course the overall rate I got was slightly higher than the best rates available at the exact moment, however, I had to pay absolutely no other costs than the $250.

Right now I'm trying to do a full blown refinance with Indymac Bank.... don't even get me started on them. They wrote the book on incompetence. I'm hoping rates dip back below the great rate I have locked with them so I can just jump ship to another lender.

Knucklehead · February 2009

Dave, i stand corrected....I do realize the Govt puts pressure on the lenders to make bad loans, i guess my thought was I dont mind helping out families with legitimate problems, sometimes families do have every intention of paying back risky loans that probably shouldnt have been made, but loss of income, death of spouse, health problems etc rear their ugly head. We have several members of our Church who have needed a helping hand. I do understand what everyone is saying about people who go and run up a credit card on entertainment then they cant pay their bills, thats total B.S.! Those people need a serious intervention. What bothers me is to see Children involved and people going hungary.

CaligulaPolk · February 2009

3 words???

Give it up?

uhmmm magic words? F--- you bank!

shack · February 2009

CaligulaPolk wrote:

uhmmm magic words? F--- you bank!

Why didn't they say that when they went asking to borrow the money? :rolleyes:

steveinaz · February 2009

As much as I agree with you Shack---mortgage lenders hold some responsibility in taking on these "pipe dream" loans as well. Let's not feel too sorry for the poor bankers on this.

Having said that---there's no excuse for not educating yourself on the implications of a mortgage, and what impact home ownership has on your budget. There is also no excuse for trying to have it all, too soon; I know it's tough on some of you generation Y folks, who mommy & daddy readily handed out the money for your every whim, you know, so you'd love them more. You'll have to learn to move slowly and be patient. Bev & I's first home was very, very modest; we knew we would eventually "upgrade" but we followed the golden rule of realestate by buying the cheapest house in the most expensive neighborhood, and it paid off---to the tune of $85,000 in 2years. This money was used as a down payment on our current home.

Knucklehead · February 2009

Couldnt agree with you more Steve, my Wife and I made $55,000 on our first. Thats the way its done!

shack · February 2009

steveinaz wrote:

As much as I agree with you Shack---mortgage lenders hold some responsibility in taking on these "pipe dream" loans as well. Let's not feel too sorry for the poor bankers on this.

Steve, as I said in an earlier post...as a banker that tried to do things right...I am pissed off at the ones who have FUBARed the whole system. A lot of the bad mortgage lenders made their commissions and are long gone, leaving the rest of us to try and sort it all out. Hell, I am in the process of foreclosing on a $2,000,000+ commercial office bldg construction/development loan and we may lose as much as $200,000 to $300,000 when it is all said and done. It was a good loan when I made it 2 and a half years ago but it isn't now. My loan...my customer...my fault. It hurt that the borrower ended up **** us, his partners, his subs, etc, etc. and has now filed for bankruptcy. I lose sleep over **** like this because I take pride in what I do.

I am not saying feel sorry for the bankers....BUT...I hate people who promise to pay...then decide what the hell, it's only the bank...eff them. Nobody MADE them take the loan...:rolleyes:

steveinaz · February 2009

Absolutely, I agree. Unfortunately, our society is less than stellar in the acceptance of personal responsibility---a LARGE factor in this whole mess.

4406bbl · February 2009

I see nobody has mentioned the real estate agents that pushed a lot of dumb people into stoopid houses and had to know better, plus they get paid for doing near nothing. I cannot for the life of me feel sorry for anyone that feels they got screwed by the bank because at any closing I have been involved with the title company told me if you do not understand something ask and it will be clarified if you are not happy DO NOT SIGN, first words out of her mouth. The way I see it these people gambled, thought they would get rich off a house, lost, and now want bailed out. I have a car salesman friend that wants bailed out,i asked him if he would bailout someone upsidedown on a car,he looked at me like I was stoned, I told him he had to know what he was doing as he sees people get screwed on cars every day and if fact laughed at how dumb people are. I say it is time to man up and take your arse kicking. Bailouts,what cowards, no pride at all, makes my blood boil,hell I own my own business and my raw material costs tripled for about 6 months, last place I would go is a bank for a loan or ask for a gavernment bailout, what a joke. I sold all my stocks Oct 4 to have a cushion, glad I did looking at the market performance, I do not plan on getting back in for a long time, nor do any business owners I know of.

Barefoot · February 2009

Here's an easier to understand approach. <object width="400" height="225"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3261363&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3261363&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></embed></object><br /><a href="https://player.vimeo.com/video/3261363 Crisis of Credit Visualized</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/jonathanjarvis">Jonathan Jarvis</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.

sucks2beme · February 2009

4406bbl wrote: »

I see nobody has mentioned the real estate agents that pushed a lot of dumb people into stoopid houses and had to know better, plus they get paid for doing near nothing. QUOTE]

The wife WAS a real estate agent. Most of the stanley stupids buying in over
their head with no money down weren't talked into anything. Here first words
normally were "do you have a pre-qualification from your lender?".
They either had one or got one. They then told her what they could
qualify for, and how much they wanted to spend. She never pushed anyone.
But it was scary how many people were buying without a penny to
their name. No savings, no money down, and often pretty poor credit.
The loan guys loved desperate buyers. They would roll huge surcharges and
fees into a very high interest loan. They they would get a loan for their
"dream swimming pool" added on. Now they're $50k under water in a good
market. In California they were giving out equity loans 6 months after
people bought their homes under the assumption that it went up in value.
And guys like Countrywide were eating it up. They would get all the up front
fees in pocket, and bundle them up to sell. And then they'd start the cycle
again.
When I bought my homes, no down payment, no deal. PERIOD. That
pretty much kept the "wing and a prayer" guys out of mortgages.
The lenders started this. Same with cars. Why would anyone do a
100% loan, plus roll in the previous car loan costs that were under water?
Do you have a job? Do you have $99? Get a new car.

The loan guys got stupid and greedy. Anyone with half a brain knew this was coming. And the saps who got the loans deserve to get screwed.
So do the lenders. Why uncle sam got in the fray I'll never know.

PhantomOG · February 2009

I think both the banks/lenders and the homeowners should be suffering for this. Why the hell is it so important to stop foreclosures? The people obviously cannot afford homeownership. Help them get apartments. Banks that made their living off those types of loans should go out of business. Let it be a hard lesson and an opportunity for other banks to scoop up the remaning assets.

Many of the "hard" hit areas (Calif, Ariz, Florida) are GROSSLY overvalued. Trying to stem dropping values / foreclosures is a BAD thing in those area. Values NEED to go down to what the market allows.

Much of the mess we are in can be contributed to this housing bubble which popped. Bailing out the banks/homeowners that caused this mess is like blowing into a popped balloon.

John30_30 · February 2009

Knucklehead wrote: »

Dave, i stand corrected....I do realize the Govt puts pressure on the lenders to make bad loans, i guess my thought was I dont mind helping out families with legitimate problems, sometimes families do have every intention of paying back risky loans that probably shouldnt have been made, but loss of income, death of spouse, health problems etc rear their ugly head. We have several members of our Church who have needed a helping hand. I do understand what everyone is saying about people who go and run up a credit card on entertainment then they cant pay their bills, thats total B.S.! Those people need a serious intervention. What bothers me is to see Children involved and people going hungry.

I think your heart is in the right place. All these years, I must've had it bass-ackwards because we're about 12 payments from burning that note, and only recently got some decent audio equipment again after so many years of doing without.:eek:

There's trash who're sitting on notes not paying them, there's greedhead realtors who looked at the past 6 years as a get-rich bonanza, there's totally irresponsible lenders and mortage loan peddlers, and there's decent folks who're scraping by.

If the Gov. can really get granular with the bailout and help those who are trying to help themselves, while letting the undeserving fail, it's as just as can be expected. Is that unrealistic to hope for? Yes.

But, even if the honest folk have to temporarily bail out the trash and crooks, at the end of the day an honest person can look in the mirror and see an honest person, while a piece of trash won't have a mirror handy, because they know what they'll see looking back.

tonyb · February 2009

Have to agree with Shack on all of this.Ya know,banks,mortgage processors,real estate agents,all are in it for one thing,and one thing only....money.Not that it's bad,after all,we all do what we do,for money.My mortgage guy told me I could qualify for a $600,000 home.....so I bought one for $300,000,you always have the power to say NO!!
Would he,the real estate agent,the bank,make more money if I bought a house for 600 g's ?? Well yeah.....is it the smart thing to do?? UH...NO.This is capitalism folks,someone,somewhere,will always be looking to relieve you of your hard earned cash.But you have to use alittle common sense in this stuff instead of the "I want it all and I want it now" mentality.

zingo · February 2009

Per one of the videos: "They're crooks. I sit here trying to save my house as they live in their million dollar homes."

The interviewed woman agreed to pay the loan when she bought the house and signed the papers. Now she cannot pay it since she lost her job, which I feel really bad about. However, how does that make it the fault of anyone in the housing or mortgage business?!?

Fighting foreclosure ? 3 magic words ?

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