Recommend a CD player for my 2 channel

Norm Apter

A few weeks ago, Dave (daboyz) started a similar thread and thus I thought it might be a good idea to draw on the collective wisdom/experience here in an effort to at least narrow it down to fewer choices. I've read tons of old threads/reviews on players here at CP, but I think that system synergy is particularly important. Here's what I have and what I'm looking for:

My current CDP is a Marantz CD-5001. I bought it last April (just a few weeks before I joined CP). At at its $300 price point, I think its a very good player but since the time I purchased it, I have replaced virtually every other item in my system (aside from speakers) and thus I think its pretty clear that my CDP is the "weakest link."

The key items to keep in mind are the components that would be running in conjunction with this CD player:

Parasound Halo A23 amp
Parasound Halo P3 pre
LSi9 loudspeakers (with Shotgun S-3 interconnects, pre to amp and pre to CDP)

Now, I don't have much comparative listening experience but it seems that most people characterize the sound of the LSi9s as laid back and the Parasound stuff seems fairly neutral to me. Individually, I'm very happy with the LSi9s and the Parasound gear and have no plans to move on from either at any point in the near future.

But given this combo, here's what I'm looking for in a source: warmth and a more upfront/aggressive sound. I feel like even this lower-tier Marantz offers plenty of detail for me and thus I'm not particularly concerned with detailed sound.

Budgetary Perimeters: around $500-$600 for something used and maybe up to $700 for something new (some flexibility here).

In sum, I've kind of had this benchmark in mind for what the LSi9s can do ever since listening to them for the first time in a Crutchfield showroom. Unlike Fry's, Crutchfield seemed to have them hooked up to some top-notch gear. Man, they just blew me away. They sounded much more alive and warm than what I've been been experiencing. Now, I realize that this does not come down exclusively to the choice of a CDP, but nevertheless I'd like to take this step to get as close as possible to that standard etched in my mind.

If you are familiar with the sound of LSis and Parasound gear, maybe you can make a suggestion or two.

Norm

fbm211

Rotel maybe.Or check out audiogoN for something like this maybe-- http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1240267943&/Marantz-SA-8260

Its even in CA too. Or you could go with a theta transport and a DAC.

tcrossma

I'm currently in about the same situation as you Norm, and a CDP will be my next upgrade as well. My current top choices are a Jolida JD-100, or some model of Cary. The Cary's are a bit more money, but that's the way I'm leaning.

cnh

A mid-priced CD player that's not bad is the Onkyo DX-7555 at 699 MSRP. I'd listen to it first.

I also like the Pioneer Elite PD-D9J superaudio CD player for a bit more.

Cambridge Audio also makes some nice mid-range players in the 1000+/- range.

Take a listen and see what you think.

I now turn this over to our Gurus for the Ultimate High End Audiophile player.

cnh

erniejade

I 2nd the Jolida. It is a well built unit. Hell the remote even weighs a ton lol.

Plus you can change the sound if you don't like it by tube rolling.


Mine has been rock solid.

I got mine used for around 500. On agon they come up often and sometimes already modified.

danz1906

Try the Rotel 1072 player:cool:

cnh

I like that Rotel too. And of course the tube versions mentioned are items I've not heard so do consider those if you've got the bankroll for it.

On another note. I'm looking into the Parasound Halo 21 (it's on my shortlist) so I was wondering how you like the sound from your 23?

cnh

cfrizz

I love my Rotel 1072. It's gotten the same raves that the 855 got back 19 years ago which is why I replaced it with the 1072 when the time came.

Russ did a write up on it sometime ago. I'll see if I can find it.

Bingo!

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36450&highlight=rotel+1072

george daniel

It might be worth a try,, an older rotel 855,, modded by Musical Concepts,, for solid state,or a Jolida JD 100,in the tubed dept. Good luck.

Gaara

Jolida JD-100. Best CDP I have used, but I have only used a few.

Search way back, there use to be tons of threads ranting and raving about this CDP. It was definitely warm, but I don't recall if it was aggressive sounding, but those old threads should let you know.

Another + is it is silver so it will better match your Halo gear.

treitz3

I hate to sound like I am part of a bandwagon here as this player has been mentioned a lot already but I have to nod toward the Jolida JD-100 with my experience. It was actually recommended to me as well and I swapped a brand spankin' new Rega Apollo out for the Jolida and I was very pleased with the decision and the end result to what it did for my rig.

It will give you all the warmth you would ever need and IMO it's a very musical source [ I am currently running Sovtek's]. It is not, however, a more forward player. It's more laid back which I tend to prefer for a multitude of reasons, mainly for the spacial location of the instruments/singers within the sound stage. If you insist on a forward sound, then the Rega Apollo or above players would be a good choice, but they are not anywhere near as warm as the Joilda. Both players mentioned respond well to a PC upgrade.

I have finished my search until I decide to go really high end for my source. I'm surprisingly and pleasantly satisfied with staying where I'm at for now. Good luck in your search. Hopefully this helps.

treitz3

Norm, allow me to elaborate on the forward / laid back thing for a second as I'm not too up to par with audiophile "terms". My understanding may differ from yours so I'd like to take this opportunity to describe what I mean by forward and laid back.

When I had the Rega Apollo in my rig, it was as if the entire sound stage was right parallel or on an axial plane with the two main speakers...if not a little forward of the speakers. Sometimes when the lead singer was belting out some notes, it would seem as if she/he was about maybe a foot out in front of you or "in your face". Most of the background singers and instruments would stay at or near the speakers [hardly ever go way behind] which produced to me a limited or "squished" sound stage, if you will. It was hard for the speakers to disappear because everything was most always in front of the speakers.

Now, when I got the Jolida the first thing I noticed was the deepened sound stage. It wasn't odd to me at all, I actually instantly preferred it. The more I got to listening to my favorite tracks and reference recordings, the more I noticed that the background singers were now 10' back behind the speakers and the lead singer was no longer "in your face". Everything seemed to take a spatial presence as if you were [more realistically] actually there at the venue because the sound stage was bigger. In other words, it was easier to tell if the background singers were way behind the lead singer, or just a couple of feet. This did not happen with just the singers though. Most all of the instruments and singers took on a more pinpoint presence concerning the spatial cues of location within the sound stage.

Man, I hope I made myself clear as I can't think of any other way to say it. Anyhoo, that's what I mean between forward and laid back if it differs at all from your meaning or understanding.

Norm Apter

treitz3 wrote: »

Norm, allow me to elaborate on the forward / laid back thing for a second as I'm not too up to par with audiophile "terms". My understanding may differ from yours so I'd like to take this opportunity to describe what I mean by forward and laid back.

When I had the Rega Apollo in my rig, it was as if the entire sound stage was right parallel or on an axial plane with the two main speakers...if not a little forward of the speakers. Sometimes when the lead singer was belting out some notes, it would seem as if she/he was about maybe a foot out in front of you or "in your face". Most of the background singers and instruments would stay at or near the speakers [hardly ever go way behind] which produced to me a limited or "squished" sound stage, if you will. It was hard for the speakers to disappear because everything was most always in front of the speakers.

Now, when I got the Jolida the first thing I noticed was the deepened sound stage. It wasn't odd to me at all, I actually instantly preferred it. The more I got to listening to my favorite tracks and reference recordings, the more I noticed that the background singers were now 10' back behind the speakers and the lead singer was no longer "in your face". Everything seemed to take a spatial presence as if you were [more realistically] actually there at the venue because the sound stage was bigger. In other words, it was easier to tell if the background singers were way behind the lead singer, or just a couple of feet. This did not happen with just the singers though. Most all of the instruments and singers took on a more pinpoint presence concerning the spatial cues of location within the sound stage.

Man, I hope I made myself clear as I can't think of any other way to say it. Anyhoo, that's what I mean between forward and laid back if it differs at all from your meaning or understanding.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify how, precisely, you define those terms. Actually, its my fault for not defining them better in my original post. What you say makes sense -- the spacial aspects associated with soundstage.

I see the term "laid back" often applied to Lsi 9 speakers (or the Lsi series in general). Maybe folks are using the term "laid back" as counterpoint to a forward sound, as you've portrayed it.

So, maybe its not about a laid back vs. forward dynamic for me, but rather I just want something to liven things up a bit for the Lsi9s. I tend to associate warmth with a more "live / alive" sound, so if the Jolida JD-100 has an abundance warmth as you and others seem to indicate maybe that is the key feature that I should be seeking.

I have several of the RtiA series speakers in my Home Theatre and while I do prefer the Lsi9s (and their control) for 2 channel listening, I would like to add at least a little bit of the live feeling that the RtiA series seems to have in spades.

It is tough to express this stuff in words.

BlueFox

Keep the CD player and use it as a digital transport to an external DAC. A DAC in your price range, which just received a decent review in the current issue of "sterophile", is the Cambrige-Audio DacMagic at $399. The reviewer used a 15 year old Marantz CD player as the transport, and said the DacMagic provided audio essentially equivelant to the $1600 Cambridge-Audio 840C CD player.

DacMagic
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CADACMAGI

840C CD player
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CA840C

comfortablycurt

I've been doing a lot of shopping around for a CDP lately myself. That's one of the next upgrades I've got in mind.

I've been looking at the Rotel 1072, the Marantz 5300 and Sony SCD-C2000ES. I'm still researching other options though. SACD playback would definitely be a plus, and it seems like the Sony is one of the only SACD players in the 400ish price range.

Sorry to threadjack you Norm, but does anyone have any other recommendations for SACD players in the 350-450 range?

bikezappa

Norm

Not sure what goals you have for your system.

In my experience the recording engineer (for lp or cd) has the most profound effect on the tunes and sound you hera on your system.

The next important item is your speaker and room combination.
Not sure what has a bigger influence.

From there you can add the electronics and any other stuff.

I will assume that you love music and want to listen to it in your room.

If the music you like is electronic then just about anything can be made to sound good to you because there is no standard. An electronic guitar can be made to sound in any manner. It's up to you to decide how it should sound. You have all the control to make it the way you want it and you can use an amplifier and speakers to make as loud as you want. This is called just trust your ears. However, if you are trying to reproduce acoustic music and/or vocals then you should spend time listening to live music and comparing it to your room system.

If you don't know how a violin sounds then just about any system that plays loud will make you happy.

My point in this long BS rant is that you consider comparing you favorite live music to a recording of it as the best test and as a guide for future purchases. Gathering some ones opinion of how one electronic thing compares to another may not be helpful for YOUR ears.

Mike Reeter

Norm,I've had a Rotel 1072,the AH! 4000 which is a modded Marantz,and currently have a Jolida JD-100A in the mix.

The Jolida trumps the other two players in Spades...at least to "my ears".

Like Tom,I have had a pair of Sovtech tubes,some EI Elite Gold Pins,some EH,and most recently a pair of cheap Russian made Mullards,that really sound quite good.

The beauty part of this type player is that you can taylor the sound that trips YOUR trigger.

cnh

I told you the boys would weigh in here. You learn something every day.

I am familiar with tube CD players but not with this one...and I always thought they were ALL out of my price range. But it seems like this Jolida JD-100A can be had for around what some of the other players I listed above.

Now I'm curious as well.

cnh

Norm Apter

cnh wrote: »

I told you the boys would weigh in here. You learn something every day.

I am familiar with tube CD players but not with this one...and I always thought they were ALL out of my price range. But it seems like this Jolida JD-100A can be had for around what some of the other players I listed above.

Now I'm curious as well.

cnh

Yes, this has been an awesome resource for knowledge and well-informed opinions.

I was just looking over the responses again, and I noticed that you asked about the Halo A23 and that you are considering the A21, the more powerful big brother. Well, I do like it a lot and as I mentioned can't see moving up to anything else for quite some time. I can't really speak with any authority though because I bought it blindly, without comparing it to ones in the same sort of league -- Rotel, B&K, Adcom. In fact, several people here at CP suggested it as a good mate for Lsi9s. I bought it purely based on their recommendations and I don't regret it one bit.

Norm Apter

Mike Reeter wrote: »

Norm,I've had a Rotel 1072,the AH! 4000 which is a modded Marantz,and currently have a Jolida JD-100A in the mix.

The Jolida trumps the other two players in Spades...at least to "my ears".

Like Tom,I have had a pair of Sovtech tubes,some EI Elite Gold Pins,some EH,and most recently a pair of cheap Russian made Mullards,that really sound quite good.

The beauty part of this type player is that you can taylor the sound that trips YOUR trigger.

Hi Mike,

Is your Jolida modded or a standard/ stock unit. I noticed that the AH! 4000 model is modded, but wasn't sure about your Jolida. Whether it is or not, I was wondering if you put some thought into that when you bought it -- did that play a role in deciding upon the unit that you picked up.

Just trying to straighten out the difference between two types of variables: modded and switching tubes. I know that they mean different things, but am wondering if these two variations speak to categorically different kinds of sound/improvement.

rru2s

i have the sony ES series circa 1990+ and the marantz 5001. Hard to tell the difference. Put your money in speakers instead.

F1nut

rru2s wrote: »

i have the sony ES series circa 1990+ and the marantz 5001. Hard to tell the difference. Put your money in speakers instead.

Interesting comment. Have you listened to the LSi9's? What speakers would you recommend? What speakers do you own?

I firmly believe it all starts with the source.....garbage in, garbage out. Have you ever considered that aspect?

F1nut

Norm, if I may......

Mods build a better base to work from, if you will. While rolling tubes fine tunes or tailors the final sound.

dragon1952

If your system is laid back already, the Jolida may not be the best fit. I had the Jolida in a laid back system and, while it was nice, I wasn't blown away or anything. I found a great deal on a Music Hall CD 25.2 thinking I could sell it if I didn't like it, and I ended up selling the Jolida instead.

CRESCENDOPOWER

Norm Apter wrote: »

I have several of the RtiA series speakers in my Home Theatre and while I do prefer the Lsi9s (and their control) for 2 channel listening, I would like to add at least a little bit of the live feeling that the RtiA series seems to have in spades.

A used Benchmark DAC off of Audiogon might liven things up for you.:D

hearingimpared

Go to "Quest for Sound" Stephen will work with your budget and do you right.

Face

BlueFox wrote: »

Keep the CD player and use it as a digital transport to an external DAC. A DAC in your price range, which just received a decent review in the current issue of "sterophile", is the Cambrige-Audio DacMagic at $399. The reviewer used a 15 year old Marantz CD player as the transport, and said the DacMagic provided audio essentially equivelant to the $1600 Cambridge-Audio 840C CD player.

DacMagic
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CADACMAGI

840C CD player
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CA840C

I would not consider either one of those laid back.

Norm Apter

Face wrote: »

I would not consider either one of those laid back.

Face,

If I'm not mistaken you once had, and seemed to be impressed by, the Marantz SACD-8001, but subsquently reached a point where you were not particularly impressed, to put it charitably.

Is this the case? What happened?

Additionally, may I know what you have moved on to, or plan to move on to?

Face

You followed very closely.

I was never very fond of the 8001's high end. Bass is solid and clean, mids were fluid, but I found the highs recess and grainy...I never knew the two could co-exist. This wasn't apparent right away though, once I removed my severely colored preamp and went passive it became obvious though.

Since then I've moved to the Cambridge 840C. It's a better sounding player and has much better synergy with my rig, but I'm not sure it's what you're looking for since I would not consider it warm at all. I also have a DacMagic on order for my other rig.

Norm Apter

F1nut wrote: »

Norm, if I may......

Mods build a better base to work from, if you will. While rolling tubes fine tunes or tailors the final sound.

If I could add a follow-up question on mods, Jesse:

I have periodically checked out various Jolida JD-100 units available on A-gon. I see that modded units list various companies which have done the work: (i.e. Underwood Hi-fi, Affordable Audio, Parts Connexion).

I read in other threads that you have a pretty killer modded unit, so I'm wondering if you went with a machine that was modded by one of the companies that I have listed above. Any of those companies, as best you know, have a particularly good (or poor) reputation?

Second, I see the term "Level 1 mod" and "Level 2 mod" used to describe the work completed: is there a particular standard -- accross companies -- for what a "Level 1 mod", for instance, designates? Or does this vary from one company to another?

Norm

F1nut

Good questions.

Underwood is the retailer for Parts Connexion, so basically one and the same. I like their mods the best, however I totally disagree with their comments about upgrading the clock.

"We do not recommend upgrading the clock on the JD-100. It voids the factory warranty and dramatically lowers reliability. If anyone recommends upgrading the clock you should call Jolida to verify this and realize that they do not have your best interests in mind."

I fail to see how it could affect the reliability at all unless the replacement clock wasn't of good quality. My player has a Trichord Research clock, which has been trouble free and is vastly superior to the stock clock.

There is no standard, the mod level offerings do vary from company to company. For the money I feel that Parts Connexion offers the best deal.