Seperate amp for rear speakers?

Mike21

My HT audio system:

AVR: Onk 805
L&R: Polk M50s
Center: Polk CS2
Sides: Polk M40s
Rear: B&W LM1s
Sub: Sunfire True Sub (the original model)

In my PC stereo system I recently replaced an old NAD 906 amp (90w x 2) with a more powerful amp. I'm thinking of using the NAD to drive the B&Ws in the rear.

Does anyone know of any reason why I shoudn't try this?:eek:

Mike21

comfortablycurt

Why the rears? You'd be better off using it to power your front channels.

Dawgfish

Mike 21,

A little more info would be helpful to best answer that question. What kind of amp did you replace the Nad with and what speakers is the new amp driving? What is each speaker in the setup currently being driven with?

Having said that, it never hurts to try stuff and see how it works. Just be aware that there may be sync issues with the gain factor when mixing different amps and in some cases amps with AVRs. If any of the amps have different gain factors and thus increase volume at different rates, then the amps may not match up well together at different volumes. They may all be even at one volume, but turn it up to a different level and suddenly one amp is much louder than the others and the system is unbalanced. Also there may be timbre mismatches between the different amps.

I have three different amps from three different manufactures in my upstairs system and I was lucky that everything matches up well with timbre and gain. I am super impressed with the system. Still though, I am going to replace two of my amps with an XPA-5 to match an XPA-3 that is currently in the system to have everything even closer timbre matched.

I have rambled much too long. I guess what I'm trying to say is try and see. Tell us how it goes.

Steve

cfrizz

All speakers benefit from external amplification. Go for it! Welcome to CP Mike.

emoxley

Just curious...........
If you're going to use an external amp, why did you buy an Onkyo 805? You could have bought a much cheaper receiver, just for surround capabilities. The 805 has more than enough power.

cfrizz

Welcome to CP Emoxley.:)

Have you ever had a separate amplifier? Until you hook one up, you have no idea what a benefit separate amplification makes.

NO receiver puts out the power that they claim and it is NOT about volume that makes the true benefits of having a separate amplifier drive your speakers.

All speakers will play when pushed by a reciever, but they will not be playing to their full potential with just a receiver. It takes a dedicated amp to accomplish this.

Browse through the threads here as a whole bunch of newbies have scored amps due to Emotiva's sales. Read what they have to say about the difference it makes.:)

emoxley wrote: »

Just curious...........
If you're going to use an external amp, why did you buy an Onkyo 805? You could have bought a much cheaper receiver, just for surround capabilities. The 805 has more than enough power.

emoxley

I've heard separates before, and they sounded good, but not good enough to warrant the cost, especially if you already have a receiver that will do the job. I've put my LSi9s through a good test, and my Onkyo 805 did great. As long as it continues to perform as well as it does, there's no way I'm spending money for an external amp, for no more than it will do for me. If I was going to do that, I'd have bought a pre/pro to start with, instead of a receiver.

I totally understand and even agree, that you should add some help, if your receiver isn't up to the job. But if it is up to the job, it's just ridiculous to go adding amps to it. Spend a few thousand and buy amps for each speaker. For an audiophile, that may be the ultimate setup. I guess I'm not an audiophile. My 805 makes my LSi9s and LSiC, sound as pleasurable as my ears can stand. You're welcome to come by and listen.........
I'm not trying to step on toes. I just don't agree with some of the amp suggestions. Y'all make it seem like the site gets kick-backs from all the Emotiva amps you help sell.

cfrizz

I really couldn't care less what name is on a HT amp. Emo gets pushed because (right now) it's an outstanding price for what you get. The same happened when Outlaw hit the streets a few years back.

No one is suggesting monoblocks for all his speakers. That's why they come in 2,3,5 & 7 channels as well as monoblocks.

I'm glad you are happy with your system. I had the same attitude as you did, but when I decided I wanted to get some LSI's I was told that my Denon couldn't handle 4ohm speakers. So I got a 205wpc Parasound amp in preperation. It made such a huge difference on my 19 year old 8ohm RTA 8Ts, that I have yet to upgrade my speakers.

Again, how loud they can go has NOTHING to do with the improvements.

If you ever decide to step up & get some real power for your LSI's you will then know what you are missing.

emoxley

cfrizz wrote: »

Again, how loud they can go has NOTHING to do with the improvements.

Where did I say anything about loud or volume? The only time I've mentioned volume, was in the post about the test I ran on my new Onkyo receiver. I hadn't really cranked it up until then. I listened VERY loud, for 45 minutes, to see if the receiver was going to run hot, pushing the 4 ohm speakers. Onkyos are known to run hotter than most other receivers. Mine did not run hot. It was a little warm, but not hot at all. Power doesn't necessarily mean loud, but it can get loud.

People have asked why they needed all the power a certain receiver has. They say they don't play their music or movies very loud. I tell them the power will give them cleaner and clearer sound at low volumes, and should notice a big difference overall, without making their ears bleed. During my test, I heard things I had never heard before, and it wasn't because of volume being so high. I also hear them now at lower volumes. This Onkyo is the nicest receiver I've ever owned, and the most powerful. I told about my test at another forum also, and a friend there, that has the same receiver, runs a full 5.1 or maybe even a 7.1 set of Dynaudio 4 ohm speakers. He says he has no problems either. Not every receiver made needs an external amp, for great performance.

comfortablycurt

emoxley wrote: »

Not every receiver made needs an external amp, for great performance.

True...not every receiver made needs an external amp. Every receiver made, is still going to benefit, very much, from external amplification though.

mantis

emoxley wrote: »

Where did I say anything about loud or volume? The only time I've mentioned volume, was in the post about the test I ran on my new Onkyo receiver. I hadn't really cranked it up until then. I listened VERY loud, for 45 minutes, to see if the receiver was going to run hot, pushing the 4 ohm speakers. Onkyos are known to run hotter than most other receivers. Mine did not run hot. It was a little warm, but not hot at all. Power doesn't necessarily mean loud, but it can get loud.

People have asked why they needed all the power a certain receiver has. They say they don't play their music or movies very loud. I tell them the power will give them cleaner and clearer sound at low volumes, and should notice a big difference overall, without making their ears bleed. During my test, I heard things I had never heard before, and it wasn't because of volume being so high. I also hear them now at lower volumes. This Onkyo is the nicest receiver I've ever owned, and the most powerful. I told about my test at another forum also, and a friend there, that has the same receiver, runs a full 5.1 or maybe even a 7.1 set of Dynaudio 4 ohm speakers. He says he has no problems either. Not every receiver made needs an external amp, for great performance.

If this is your response then you need to learn a lot more about speaker and amp relationship.
If your friend has a full Dynaudio speaker package and uses a Onkyo receiver then I want nothing to do with him. It's a discredit to the speakers.

Shame that people don't learn about there hobby.

Dan

mantis

Mike21 wrote: »

My HT audio system:

AVR: Onk 805
L&R: Polk M50s
Center: Polk CS2
Sides: Polk M40s
Rear: B&W LM1s
Sub: Sunfire True Sub (the original model)

In my PC stereo system I recently replaced an old NAD 906 amp (90w x 2) with a more powerful amp. I'm thinking of using the NAD to drive the B&Ws in the rear.

Does anyone know of any reason why I shoudn't try this?:eek:

Mike21

For this speaker package , you do not need a external amp.

emoxley

mantis wrote: »

Shame that people don't learn about there hobby.

If this is your response then you need to learn a lot more about english language, and the difference between "there" and "their". Maybe "they're" needs to be thrown in there too? See, you're not the only one that can cut people down, because they don't agree with you.

mantis wrote:

If your friend has a full Dynaudio speaker package and uses a Onkyo receiver then I want nothing to do with him. It's a discredit to the speakers.

No, it's a credit to Onkyo, that they can get the job done. Why do you think you're the only one that's heard an external amp hooked up to a receiver?
Sound is subjective, just as speakers are. Some people love Klipsch speakers. Some people don't. Some people love external amps. Some people don't. Some people even love Bose equipment!

As far as not wanting anything to do with my friend, I'm sure the feeling would be mutual. I didn't come here talking **** about your friends, and their likes and dislikes. I didn't try to start trouble. I just don't agree that every receiver needs or would necessarily benefit from an external amp. Then you, with your pampas attitude, jumps in and puts me down, and even puts down my friend, saying you want nothing to do with him. I've been into surround sound for about 10 yrs., and I believe I know what I like and don't like. These forums must be here only for what you like and dislike? I thought forums were for everybody's ideas and experiences to be shared, without being chastised for it. Sorry to bother you!

comfortablycurt

If you don't like the way external amps sound...I think you may need to go and have your ears looked at. Somethings wrong there.

External amps are always going to sound better than an AVR. To even debate otherwise is silly.

That Onkyo's a nice receiver...no one is downing it...but it is what it is. A receiver. All of your speakers are being powered by ONE power source. It's not exactly ideal. External amps would be a huge improvement.

cfrizz

The bottom line for him is that is has nothing to do with the benefits of having more power, (he does realize the benefits). He is simply too cheap to cough up the money for it. So he justifies/rationalizes his receiver purchase knowing in his heart that he could do much better if he so chooses.

So let him be & hope he doesn't come back here whining if he gets the urge to turn up that receiver & blows up one of his LSI speakers.

Basically he is the reverse of Bose fanatics.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

If you don't like the way external amps sound...I think you may need to go and have your ears looked at. Somethings wrong there.

External amps are always going to sound better than an AVR. To even debate otherwise is silly.

That Onkyo's a nice receiver...no one is downing it...but it is what it is. A receiver. All of your speakers are being powered by ONE power source. It's not exactly ideal. External amps would be a huge improvement.

comfortablycurt

cfrizz wrote: »

The bottom line for him is that is has nothing to do with the benefits of having more power, (he does realize the benefits). He is simply too cheap to cough up the money for it. So he justifies/rationalizes his receiver purchase knowing in his heart that he could do much better if he so chooses.

So let him be & hope he doesn't come back here whining if he gets the urge to turn up that receiver & blows up one of his LSI speakers.

Basically he is the reverse of Bose fanatics.

Yep...I won't be losing any sleep over it.

Oh well...personally I can't wait to get some external amplification running my Monitor 7A's...hopefully I should have that problem remedied in the next month and a half or so.:D

dborzz

Wow it's getting rough on here.....I guess I'll just say I wish I could add some power to my speakers but I'm using an Onk606......so it sure must be nice to have that option...lol....I thought it was pretty much a known fact that all speakers benefit from more power pumped through them....hmmmm...maybe I should keep reading!!!

comfortablycurt

dborzz wrote: »

Wow it's getting rough on here.....I guess I'll just say I wish I could add some power to my speakers but I'm using an Onk606......so it sure must be nice to have that option...lol....I thought it was pretty much a known fact that all speakers benefit from more power pumped through them....hmmmm...maybe I should keep reading!!!

I've got an Onk 606 too...that's it's one drawback...no pre-outs. In hindsight now I wish I would have stepped up to the 706...but at the time I was just planning on upgrading my system a little, and didn't even think of the possibility of hooking up externals. I hadn't really been counting on the audio bug biting me as much as it has...lol

Luckily though, I have a Fisher receiver(which is in the middle of being rehabbed right now) which does have pre-outs, so I'm going to be setting up a dedicated 2-channel system. I'll be using that as a temporary pre for the Adcom GFA545 I'm getting, to run my Monitor 7A's...I can't wait to see how huge of a difference it's going to make in my sound.:D

dborzz

Maybe I should sell my onk on here and opt for the 7 or 806......oh yeah not to throw this thread off...."more power please"..that's what all speakers say!!!!

comfortablycurt

dborzz wrote: »

Maybe I should sell my onk on here and opt for the 7 or 806......oh yeah not to throw this thread off...."more power please"..that's what all speakers say!!!!

I was tossing around that idea for a while...I'm still not 100% decided. I think I'm going to end up hanging on to the 606 for the time being though. I'm still more than happy with it even without external amps.

Rather than buying a 706 or 806, I think I'll just use the 606, and save my money for an OnkyoPro PRSC886P pre-amp processor, and XPA-2/XPA-5 combo. I'll be much happier in the long run just holding off until I can afford the pre-pro/power amp combo.

The majority of my listening is with two channel music anyway...which is why I'm focusing on the 2-channel rig first.

edit-I just found an interesting article comparing the performance of the Onkyo 706/806/876/906 receivers and the OnkyoPro PR-SC886P pre-pro.

http://nodef.blogspot.com/2008/12/onkyo-706-vs-806-vs-876-vs-906-vs-886p.html

dborzz

You're talking crazy talk now curt!!! Do I have to research that stuff now as well??? CRAP,another upgrade.

comfortablycurt

dborzz wrote: »

You're talking crazy talk now curt!!! Do I have to research that stuff now as well??? CRAP,another upgrade.

lol...I usually tend to talk crazy. Upgradeitis is a hard thing to get rid of...if you're not looking to spend thousands of dollars on your system, you should probably leave this forum and never come back.;) Upgradeitis is very catching around here...lol...it can never be cured, though the symptoms can be temporarily suppressed.:p

I just edited my post above with a comparison between the 706/806/876/906 and OnkyoPro PR-SC886P pre-pro. It's a pretty interesting read if you wanna check it out.

dborzz

Thanks curt....you're swell. And always on here and quick to respond....lol!!!!!

Mike21

Well, now that the dust has cleared:cool:, my system does not need any additionl amplification. I just like to play with my toys. As I now have this extra amp lying around I fugured I'd fool around with it a bit.

About 2 weeks ago I disconnected the B&Ws from the rear for house cleaning. I haven't reconnected them yet becuse (1) I'm lazy and (2) with a 5.1 source, the M40s on the sides really do a great job.

If/when I find some more BDs w/ 7.1 to rent, I'll reconnect the rears.

I want to make this clear: IMHO, for a home theater system with meduim size speakers, nothing beats the Onk 805, regrdless of price.

comfortablycurt

I too recently downgraded from 7.1 to 5.1 because I re-arranged, and didn't have quite enough speaker wire to make the surround back runs. After using it like that for a few weeks...I'm in no hurry to get them hooked back up. It really doesn't make that huge of a difference IMO.

Like you said, until they start releasing a lot more movies with 7.1 ch. soundtracks, I don't think I'm going to be worrying about it to much.