Considering selling my Carver equipment...

TSWisla
TSWisla Posts: 446
edited February 2009 in 2 Channel Audio
Will I regret it? I own the c-4000 preamp and m-1.5t amp and after reading many opinions online, am considering to sell them and get "something else". Any opinions/stories to share?
Zu Soul Supreme
Coincident Frankenstein mkIII
Esoteric K-07
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited February 2009
    I have a M-1.5t and since its old (20 + years) it should go to the shop for a rebuild. The cost is anywhere between about $150 to $300. depending who it goes to and what all gets updated. Alot of people like it and it sure has plenty of power.
    If you have not been to the Carver web site you should.
    Drew
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited February 2009
    Get rid of it and try something new.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited February 2009
    Keep the carver stuff... send it to Rita and Bob for a rebuild. I f you think its time for something different go for it, but hold on to the Carver stuff
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • TSWisla
    TSWisla Posts: 446
    edited February 2009
    I just don't get it. Some people love the stuff and some hate it and say it is garbage. I thought that it sounded pretty good, but maybe I am missing something...
    Zu Soul Supreme
    Coincident Frankenstein mkIII
    Esoteric K-07
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited February 2009
    If you like how it sounds, then stay away from the internet. Your wallet will thank you. ;)
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • TSWisla
    TSWisla Posts: 446
    edited February 2009
    I know what you mean, but I don't want to be "missing something"...
    Zu Soul Supreme
    Coincident Frankenstein mkIII
    Esoteric K-07
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2009
    Ricardo wrote: »
    If you like how it sounds, then stay away from the internet. Your wallet will thank you. ;)

    Ditto!
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited February 2009
    TSWisla wrote: »
    I know what you mean, but I don't want to be "missing something"...


    Well, if you really want to go down that road, you will only know when you get your ears on different gear. As you said, some people love Carver, some people hate it, and it's the same with any other manufacturers. Maybe you find something you like better, maybe you don't. It's a long and expensive journey ;)
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • TSWisla
    TSWisla Posts: 446
    edited February 2009
    Ricardo wrote: »
    Well, if you really want to go down that road, you will only know when you get your ears on different gear. As you said, some people love Carver, some people hate it, and it's the same with any other manufacturers. Maybe you find something you like better, maybe you don't. It's a long and expensive journey ;)

    You are right and I appreciate your advice, but can you say anything personally about my setup?
    Zu Soul Supreme
    Coincident Frankenstein mkIII
    Esoteric K-07
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited February 2009
    Personally, I find the C-4000 to be noisy (they are very old) and the M1.5t a little too "tubey" sounding for my taste. I switched to Sunfire & have been supremely happy for it. You WILL be spending a lot of extra cash, however. Even used, Sunfire stuff AIN'T cheap~
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2009
    "afraid I might be missing something" are famous last words. Don't mess with success--TRUST ME. When you have listened to system over a number of years, changes can be mighty hard--and usually end in disappointment.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited February 2009
    TSWisla wrote: »
    You are right and I appreciate your advice, but can you say anything personally about my setup?

    I have never heard either.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2009
    steveinaz wrote: »
    "afraid I might be missing something" are famous last words. Don't mess with success--TRUST ME. When you have listened to system over a number of years, changes can be mighty hard--and usually end in disappointment.

    It is a very fine line..............the only way to know for sure is do some research.....get together with local polkies (if that's a possiblity) keep what you have to compare with what you get.

    I just changed amps after 20+ years.......part of it was my stubborness not to take a few steps but the BIG step up.......and part of it was convincing myself that if it sounded good and I was happy don't chase your tail.

    In the end after only spending 2 days with my new amp.............I am thrilled and it turned out to have been well worth the effort, heartache, and constant back and forth!! The old vs. the new is absolutely not a fair comparison.....the new wins w/o question.

    Good luck with your journey

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited February 2009
    TSWisla wrote: »
    I know what you mean, but I don't want to be "missing something"...

    Age old story. . . some thousands of $$$$$ later and back to where you started. Enjoy what you have!

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,499
    edited February 2009
    Lots of good advice. Avoid it or get involved. You must decide for yourself. I do not regret my audio journey at all. Now I know what I like and rarely demo new gear for myself.

    Along with local get togethers, many of us have bought and sold used gear looking for the sound we want. Have a budget for gear and stick to it. You will most likely not break even buying and selling gear, but there is a price for education. Perhaps check out the Chicago Audio Society. They have monthly meetings, and members have get togethers trying different gear.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2009
    +1 on the good advice given here,,, you could sell the carver gear,,post here how much you have to spend on a rig,,, I'm sure that you'll get plenty of advice.;):)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • TSWisla
    TSWisla Posts: 446
    edited February 2009
    I appreciate everyone's advice, thank you. I just have one more thing that I guess I would like to clear up. Is there some inherent problem/flaw with the carver equipment? Let me explain what I was getting at with selling it. I was considering a Parasound 3500 amp. Thank you again.

    Tom
    Zu Soul Supreme
    Coincident Frankenstein mkIII
    Esoteric K-07
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2009
    No inherent flaw........however, older gear looses some of it "drive" or character over time. You are probably at that point. I just had a 24 year old pre-amp fixed. But it's an awesome sounding pre-amp and the repair cost me 10% of what a newer (still used) comparable unit would have cost to replace it, so it was worth it.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited February 2009
    send the stuff to Bob and Rita and have them go over it... when it comes back it will be better than new. If still not what you expect then get the parasound. the fact that it has been restored by the man that built it will certainly enhance its value. while its there get him to sign it as well...................
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited February 2009
    TSWisla wrote: »
    I appreciate everyone's advice, thank you. I just have one more thing that I guess I would like to clear up. Is there some inherent problem/flaw with the carver equipment? Let me explain what I was getting at with selling it. I was considering a Parasound 3500 amp. Thank you again.

    Tom

    I personally know of one guy who sold his Parasound equipment to specifically purchase Carver gear....

    :confused:
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited February 2009
    the only inherent flaw with Carver gear is that they no longer make more of it... that said most of them, M1.5t included are so good that most companies still cannot touch it for power and all around performance... a nice 1.5t is still worth around 500 bucks and cannot be beat by new amps at 4 times that price
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited February 2009
    I've always been a fan of Carver amps.....the TFM 45/42/m4.0t being top of the heap (yes, even ahead of the Silver 9t's)....the m1.5t was pretty damn good as well. The only amp that I didn't like was the m1.0t. Couldn't unload that fast enough.

    I like the preamps ok, but will take a good tube pre any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited February 2009
    Depends on you, there is certainly better gear to be had. I had Silver 9t monoblocks, replaced them with something else that did in fact sound much better.

    RT1
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    edited February 2009
    It is all personal preference. ... and... Some amplifiers sound better on some speakers then others do.


    I.E. this is not high end but a good test.

    JBL L150 speakers Kenwood KA 8006 TOTL 1973 amp at 75 per channel. Sounded fantastic on the JBL L150. Put the Same speaker on a NAD, sounded terrible! same speaker on a Integra m5030 sounded good but not as good as the old kenwood.


    Same amps, Polk 2.3 Sounded terrible on the kenwood, ok on the NAD and just amazing on the Integra.


    Sometimes you have to match up the amps with the speakers.



    The carver you have is a solid good amp. Don't let anyone tell you different. It might not be everyone's taste but, there is nothing wrong with it.

    I also agree with nooshinjohn sending it to bob and rita. check out the carver boards. for the $ you can't beat it and they will put it back to spec. Now if you want to improve it, send it to RichP714 and he will upgrade it and the power on it.


    As other people have warned you already, when you start " looking" for that perfect sound, it is a long hard $$$$$$ road and sometimes you go back to what you had. If you do decide to change amps, I would suggest holding on to the one you have. This way you can do a side by side. It is too hard to go from memory like i thought it sounded like this,,,, you need to be able to switch from A to B side by side.



    On a side note, TNRabbit, yes the Sunfire does rock and sound wonderfull!!!!! Love my sig II that is for sure!!
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • rlmacklin
    rlmacklin Posts: 46
    edited February 2009
    Just to be clear, Bob Carver was the man behind Sunfire ;)


    On a side note, TNRabbit, yes the Sunfire does rock and sound wonderfull!!!!! Love my sig II that is for sure!![/QUOTE]
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited February 2009
    I consider Sunfire to be Bob's best effort (so far).....but just wait; there's more coming down the pike from ol' Bob.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2009
    erniejade wrote: »
    I also agree with nooshinjohn sending it to bob and rita. check out the carver boards. for the $ you can't beat it and they will put it back to spec. Now if you want to improve it, send it to RichP714 and he will upgrade it and the power on it.

    I have my M1.0-t coming back from RichP714 after the mkII mod/upgrade.

    The specs promise this will be a monster - and some of the reviews by folks who got this mod say it results in a good SQ step up - even though it is regarded by some as the ugly stepchild of the Carver line ;)

    I'll post my own evaluation once I get my amp back and spend some time with it...should be here tomorrow.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited February 2009
    If you'd like to know why some don't like Carver stuff...I suspect it's because years ago he took a challenge from Stereophile magazine & a couple of "Hi-End" amp manufacturers to duplicate their sonic traits with his mass produced mid-fi amps. He succeeded so well that he actually had to "worsen" the sound on one to get an exact match! Well....this didn't sit too well with the challengers at all. Like Bose, Monster etc. etc. there's always going to be someone/thing that people will band together against because "everyone else is doing it"! I personally admire Bob Carver's inventiveness and the products it has produced and think they're a lot of bang for the buck. The consistently high prices they command on ebay and Agon indicate that somebody is willing to pay a lot for them, I never buy gear based on other peoples opinions of it, they're not paying for it. OR listening to it:p Mr. Bob is a GENIUS and a Hell of a nice guy too!! Link to challenge below...read all about it;)

    http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:qKIj-pJv0iAJ:www.carveraudio.com/CarverChallenge.pdf+the+bob+carver+challenge&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&client=firefox-a
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited February 2009
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    I have my M1.0-t coming back from RichP714 after the mkII mod/upgrade.

    The specs promise this will be a monster - and some of the reviews by folks who got this mod say it results in a good SQ step up - even though it is regarded by some as the ugly stepchild of the Carver line ;)

    I'll post my own evaluation once I get my amp back and spend some time with it...should be here tomorrow.

    AWWW:eek: You said Monster!! You better get a good lawyer,they'll sue you you know.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2009
    gdb wrote: »
    If you'd like to know why some don't like Carver stuff...I suspect it's because years ago he took a challenge from Stereophile magazine & a couple of "Hi-End" amp manufacturers to duplicate their sonic traits with his mass produced mid-fi amps. He succeeded so well that he actually had to "worsen" the sound on one to get an exact match! Well....this didn't sit too well with the challengers at all. Like Bose, Monster etc. etc. there's always going to be someone/thing that people will band together against because "everyone else is doing it"! I personally admire Bob Carver's inventiveness and the products it has produced and think they're a lot of bang for the buck. The consistently high prices they command on ebay and Agon indicate that somebody is willing to pay a lot for them, I never buy gear based on other peoples opinions of it, they're not paying for it. OR listening to it:p Mr. Bob is a GENIUS and a Hell of a nice guy too!! Link to challenge below...read all about it;)

    http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:qKIj-pJv0iAJ:www.carveraudio.com/CarverChallenge.pdf+the+bob+carver+challenge&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&client=firefox-a

    Yeah.............that's old news. Bob deserves to sit at the table with a lot of great audio pioneers that's for sure. Never really cared for his stuff (certainly didn't hate it), but that was a long time ago. I'm more of a Pass-o-phile. But no denying Bob's contributions to audio.

    Also there are two sides to that story, some say he succeeded some say he didn't..........let's just leave it at that.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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