Tubes Still Rule.............

reeltrouble1

However,

The need for Power can be cruel.

Was it only 6 months ago that I was smiling down the corridors of this bunny hole? Dodging left or right to avoid the occasional snare, just enough light to see any big problems coming well in advance, hopping over them with a small tweak. Overall, life was pretty good, the sickness had lain more or less dormant or at least satisfied for over a year, the library of choices growing, yes, Life is Suck, but Sucking is a very dependant term.

I cannot really recall the exact time or even day the whispering started. Although faint, still undeniable and quite insatiable, to borrow from King "A Needfull Thing". The tale is long and this place is short with the long. So a step was taken which did bloom and all was still good Suck, but certainly different, at least the sine angle had changed, calling for another step into it where its liquid may be sweet bliss.

So the leap was trusted to a path not yet taken, darker here, with just enough light remaining to see the crumbs leading back, but there in front two doors. Each calling to be opened, would stepping through forever close the way back? And if so which to choose? One dark the other light. All in for this or for that?

I dunno. But the calling to find out burns both ways.

RT1

zombie boy 2000

Finally decided to go with Ice Power?

Ricardo

Ted, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Maybe if you try Spanish?

heiney9

Spanglish................maybe.

dkg999

I think I might even understand a small but important part of Ted's magnificantly worded post :cool: You can only get so much juice out of a bottle, and sometimes you just want more

Ricardo

I get it. All those words just to avoid openly recognizing that tubes really don't rule.;)

reeltrouble1

Set adrift between the seas of audio torture and torment, I now realize this all began with a gift of Rum from a brother on his own path's journey along with a worm from Azteca. I am only this because my brothers are that.

Well that along with a very comfortable new listening chair I snatched from Tweeter.

RT1

heiney9

Sounds like an enviable journey and resting spot

dkg999

So the "power" thing was just to throw me off course! Tubes and a new comfy chair, now that's audio nirvana

reeltrouble1

Ricardo wrote: »

I get it. All those words just to avoid openly recognizing that tubes really don't rule.;)

Not exactly for what is upstream is in fact the essence of what is downstream, until such time as dilution tilts the whole thing causing the canoe to capsize.

Doug you are essentially correct in your initial assesment, Antony Michaelson may hold a key, but is it valuable metal or fools gold? Door #1.

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george daniel

The force Ted,, feel the force within you,,don't give in to the darkside,,let the force be your guiding light,through the deep dark cavernous path,that awaits. May your feet always embrace solid ground.:)

Lsi9

Nicely written RT1, almost poetic but I am still on the fence about good SS vs. Tube, in other words what u talkin' bout willis?

pearsall001

Long live McIntosh!!!

Mike Reeter

There is an awfull lota BS goin' on round here...tell me more

Systems

zombie boy 2000 wrote: »

Finally decided to go with Ice Power?

Na,probably just one of these.

Antony Michaelson may hold a key

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/80249

treitz3

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I dunno. But the calling to find out burns both ways.

Man, if I didn't know any better, I'd say it sounds like you are on some of the real good stuff that was available in the 70's. Decipher I must. If I read between the lines correctly, I feel the force on both sides of the fence. That's why I have an SS/tube hybrid rig and I'm building an all tube rig. Best of both worlds and now I will be able to enjoy what genre sounds best on whichever one sounds best.

Tubes do rule.

TREX, out.

Systems

GV#27 wrote: »

Na,probably just one of these.

Make that two.

Ricardo

Paypal also rules!!!!!!!!

reeltrouble1

WoW--Ricardo is totally speechless..........now that took some doing fella's.

hehehehehe

OK, so over the weekend I opened door #1, inside I found some very pleasent looking vertical mono-blocks, which as you very smart guys realized were the MFKw-550 supercharger, lets face it, nothing like 30 day trial periods. And Tom my fine young friend, what do you know about substances from the 70's??????????..........

I had always been suspect of these mono-blocks from the day they showed up on the cover of the audio mags, I believe there are no gimmicks in audio and tend to believe in big speakers, big power, big tubes, big sound, and most importantly proven audio methodology from proven audio companies, anyway, my first misgiving was the weight of 27lb each, not much for 550W claiming 250 amps pk to pk., but they would fit the bill of allowing the amplifier driving them (speaker level) to see a nice and easy 50k input. And yes although my BAT Tube amps are quite powerful this new Woodshed Rig is quite the challenge for any tube amps.

So what is important to understand is that in using the speaker level inputs on the MF550 you will not really be able to play your preamp at a higher gain setting, what they do is increase the headroom for transients by about 10db (which is good) they also bring out further micro-dynamics throughout the frequencies but I especially noted the bass and breath in the vocals within the range they operated in. Alas though, they are not up to the 2 ohm challenge the Sound Labs present and I was able to drive them into either protect mode through clipping or thermal shutdown on extended use. For the most part they could only take the Sound Labs to around 92db, although I did get them to briefly hit 104db on a hot track with a very powerful vocal before one went into thermal shutdown. However, I would say that if you are using efficient speakers that dont dip to 2 ohms for the 2500.00 bucks they are a steal, just not for me or better said not for this rig, I would like to keep them for another project, but one thing at a time. Just do not get this wrong they sounded very good and displayed excellent performance when used within their limits, they do run very hot, I am talking egg frying, bacon cooking, with hashbrowns hot. I could not keep my hand on top of them for more than 10 seconds after 30 minutes of use.

So then what next, well, the worst thing to do is panic, especially inside the rabbit hole as you will run hither and nither and lose your way entirely, go ask Alice, I may peek in on door #2 soon, but nothing with haste or the resultant waste, the road back continues to dim with moldy bread crumbs, the sickness, well, it whispers now, not pounding, but persistant, and it says.......feed me.

When all is said and done I will document this journey with some pics.

RT1

Face

Mac or Pass would laugh at 2 ohms and keep pushing till a dead short.

reeltrouble1

yes Mike, There are a great many SS options to go to, this was tried to see if I could keep the magic of the tube sound, so it worked, but not to the gain I want. Now 90 db in the Shed is loud and will make your Wood stand on end, but I want more. I suspect the 750kw supercharger would do the trick, but not worth 10 large to me.

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Ricardo

Ted, read between the lines

heiney9

Great info Ted, can't wait to hear more. Why did they run so hot? They aren't (to my knowledge) running heavily in class A. Perhaps it has something to do with the line-level config?

H9

reeltrouble1

They are AB, well, to start with I really dont think the heat sinks have enough area, but running in B for 20-30 minutes at power is a problem for their design. At least that is what I read.

linky http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/907mf/index4.html

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treitz3

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

And Tom my fine young friend, what do you know about substances from the 70's??????????..........

I know nothing, saw nothing and did nothing. Nobody saw it. You can't prove a thing.

Have you considered an autoformer?

tonyb

I know you can use those super chargers two different ways,all by their lonesome,or hooked up to your existing amp.Did you have the Bat's in line or do it as stand alone mono's ? Nothin' like raw juice to bring out your speakers capabilities eh.I've seen those on the 'gon as low as 2 g's and that's a friggin steal.Still got an eye out for that tri-vista 300 though.Guess I have to wait until Joe or Jessie gets hit by a turnip truck.;)

F1nut

Tom's idea is seriously worth looking into.


Tony, sorry I no longer own one.

reeltrouble1

Sooooooo,

Who has used an autoformer??

Tony--either line level or speaker level the 550K cannot handle the Sound Labs and go into shutdown they need more sensitive speakers.

RT1

Hawkeye

I initially had a MC352 with autoformers with ML Vantage. While I thought it was a good amp, it ran out of gas and on some peaks hit the power guard and everything would roll off. It did not matter which tap I used. I liked the 4 Ohm. I could reach 92 db for giggles but never stayed there too long. It never got hot, could always place my hand on the sinks.

The 501's are also on the 4 Ohm tap and you could almost chill your favorite drink on them. I've had them on for 5-6 hours at 80-85 db and they have never broken a sweat. This morning, after reading your posts, I was able to measure 96 db at my listening spot which is 11 ft from the front of the panel. I stopped there because it was too much for me. OK, I'm a wimp.

Spires dip to .7 Ohms and the autoformers handle them with ease. I would have thought that your panels would have dropped lower than 2 but you would know better than I since I'm not that familiar with Sound Labs.

From my readings, Pass, Sanders and if I recall Blue Circle make some very fine amps for ESL's.

I've seen the outboard autoformers but I've had no direct experience with them.

Gordon

Face

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Sooooooo,

Who has used an autoformer??

Hmmm...tubes and autoformers.

reeltrouble1

kinda reminds me of Wall-E, but I will add it to the list.

I meant an outboard autoformer, which reminds of the autobots. Hooking all this stuff up seems like bad juju. More cords, more wire, more connections, uggg........so if someone has done it maybe they have a point of view.

RT1