Xbox 360 repair snafu

ND13

Okay, I fianlly got around to sending my 1st gen 360 Pro(bought Dec 2006) in for it's three-lights reapir a couple of weeks ago. Well the turn-around time was superb....only thing is they just sent me one that was manufactured in Nov of 2008. One of the new $199 consoles. My consloe was, at the time of purchase, was the top model...no Elites for several more months.

My point is, I paid like $599 for mine and they replace it with the arcade model. I thought they'd at least send me one with a friggin hdmi output. You know, an "EQUIVALENT" model. This one doesn't have the same capabilities as my older one,,,ie back compatibility with XBOX games. I know my original wouldn't do them all, but it would do about 70^ of the XBOX games we have.

Well I called MS repair center and finally got my point across to the BARELY ENGLISH speaking rep. She gave me a new ref number and told me to try back in a few days to see what the resolution would be. I told them I'd accept $300 or a higher-end console, or som free games of my choice. I doubt the $300 will ever happen, but I had to make a point.

I paid for the ultimate, plus HD DVD drive and extra MS wireless controllers(over $900 total) and I expect my unit to be repaired or replaced with the ultimate they have at the time. I feel that is very reasonable.

Sherardp

Xbox support sux ****, no doubts there. I have had my fair share of dealings with the bunch through the USA. I have worked with Xbox Japan and they seem to have better service than the USA, 3 day turn arounds, coming to the front door to pick up the xbox, pack it, etc.

mantis

Microcrap sucks on all levels. I'm so pissed at that company for multiple reasons. I have had 4 xbox 360's and I'm just waiting for my 4th one to go bad. I'm a gamer part time and I love the games and live features. I also liked the HD DVD abilities. But I don't know how many times I can repurchase and fix 360 consoles. I still have my orignal Super Nintendo which got played the hell out of and I can hook it up and it works.

My last xbox 360 broke right out of warranty. They said I had to pay for shipping and repair. I still have that unit here. I purchased a new 360 with a bigger hard drive (60g).

There windows sucks as I don't use Windows pc's anymore.

Dan

avelanchefan

ND13...sorry to say the Arcade model does have a HDMI output.

What you got was the Core model.

Not that me saying that should make you feel any better. I see where your point lies and I agree with it. You should get an elite model at least.

ND13

Well I still got screwed. They think a one month xbox live card covers all the trouble.

danger boy

just throwing this out. with all the problems with MS X-Box360's are people still buying them? Having to replace any item 3 or 4 times says to me their system is a POS. or a lemon at best.

I figure if a company can't get their act together enough to guarantee their product is going to last more than a year or so.. then they need to do a better job of manufacturing it. Quality control isn't MS's priority it appears.

I feel for you Noel. That would tick me off to no end. Call them back and demand you talk to the highest level manager they have.. don't back down. You invested a good deal of money buying the TOTL gaming system only to find out when it goes dead that the company isn't willing to support replacing it with a model of equal value and capabilities.

If I had to replace my Blu Ray player or send it in for repairs 3 or 4 times... I think at that point i'd be looking at another brand of BD player. IT just shows how shoddy the workmanship is from some companies that don't even care enough to maintain a minimum level of quality control.

How many other X-Box360 have failed?

nooshinjohn

for the money these systems cost a year is rediculous... how about lasting a lifetime...

ND13

My sons' GameCube has been dropped, kicked, stepped on spilled on and probably pissed on and it still works flawlessly after +- 8 yrs now. They can be built right the first time.

Motzart

My Boy bombed around with His 1yr old 360 in His backpack.....had it out in the dusty garage.....low and behold it wouldn't boot. Figured the fan took a dump.
Called X-Box......sent Him a email with free packing slip for UPS.
We boxed it up sent it in.....came back fixed.....it was that simple.
All for free.

ND13

Motzart wrote: »

My Boy bombed around with His 1yr old 360 in His backpack.....had it out in the dusty garage.....low and behold it wouldn't boot. Figured the fan took a dump.
Called X-Box......sent Him a email with free packing slip for UPS.
We boxed it up sent it in.....came back fixed.....it was that simple.
All for free.

Mine was all free, too. MS realized they had serious issues with the first gen consoles, so they extended the waranty to 3 yrs on the ones with the 3 red rings issue. They just sent me a less capable and valuable console in it's place. That an issue with me.

Let's say you just went and bought a $35k car and it went down the **** and the manufacturer replaced it with a $20K car....how would you feel?

themuskr

I don't see how the old one could be more capable than the new one. The only difference would be the hard drive, which you have from the first xbox. And the chrome drive bezel. Otherwise they would be exactly the same. Maybe I missed something?

ND13

The new ones aren't back compatible with XBOX games. How do you think that Sony and MS are selling these consoles for cheaper than ever....they take hardware out of them and strip them down. I have the original 60gb PS3 which is WAY more capable(SACD, DVD-A, back compatible with PS2 games) than what you get today.

kuntasensei

Uh... sorry to argue with you, but compatibility with original Xbox games has always been handled by software emulation, not the hardware... and works on ALL Xbox 360s, even the new Jasper chipset and regardless of whether your unit has HDMI or not. You just had to put the game in while connected to Live and your system would download the latest compatibility software. The PS3, on the other hand, had actual hardware to handle backwards compatibility, which was removed to cut costs.

The NXE update includes all the backwards compatibility software already, so no update is required. Your original Xbox games should work fine, so long as they're on the compatibility list found here: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm

And for the record, the only difference between the Pro and Core at launch, other than the 20gb hard drive, was the silver drive tray and that you got a wireless controller and HD cables instead of wired and SD. So honestly, Microsoft did right by you. They sent you the identical hardware to what you originally purchased. If you're all torn up about not having the silver drive tray, then you can argue that... but once you slap a hard drive on them and sync your wireless controllers, they're the same. The only difference internally is that they've added a heatpipe cooler to the GPU so that it won't overheat and warp the motherboard (which was the primary cause of the RROD).

Microsoft will not, however, send you a new HDMI unit if you send in a non-HDMI unit. They merely replace what you had. And as someone who is on 360 number 11 since launch, I say you should count your freakin' blessings that you got a working unit back.

kuntasensei

Oh, and if your 360 is not connected to Live and doesn't have the NXE dashboard, you can download the compatibility software from this page:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/911314?sd=xbox

Follow the directions, burn it to disc, pop it in your system, DONE.

Toxis

The exact reason why I got my brother to get a PS3 when he was ready to buy a "high def" machine even though he is an original Xbox'er. I showed him some threads here and he finally agreed and got a PS3. Now he loves it, just gotta get used to the controller as it's different.

ND13

kuntasensei wrote: »

Uh... sorry to argue with you, but compatibility with original Xbox games has always been handled by software emulation, not the hardware... and works on ALL Xbox 360s, even the new Jasper chipset and regardless of whether your unit has HDMI or not. You just had to put the game in while connected to Live and your system would download the latest compatibility software. The PS3, on the other hand, had actual hardware to handle backwards compatibility, which was removed to cut costs.

The NXE update includes all the backwards compatibility software already, so no update is required. Your original Xbox games should work fine, so long as they're on the compatibility list found here: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm

And for the record, the only difference between the Pro and Core at launch, other than the 20gb hard drive, was the silver drive tray and that you got a wireless controller and HD cables instead of wired and SD. So honestly, Microsoft did right by you. They sent you the identical hardware to what you originally purchased. If you're all torn up about not having the silver drive tray, then you can argue that... but once you slap a hard drive on them and sync your wireless controllers, they're the same. The only difference internally is that they've added a heatpipe cooler to the GPU so that it won't overheat and warp the motherboard (which was the primary cause of the RROD).

Microsoft will not, however, send you a new HDMI unit if you send in a non-HDMI unit. They merely replace what you had. And as someone who is on 360 number 11 since launch, I say you should count your freakin' blessings that you got a working unit back.

Guess it's all in who you talk to. I knew about the downloads for back compatibility, but was told the new consoles wouldn't jive with it. I guess I'll find out.

Another thing, I was just at Wal-Mart and the Elite 120gb($399) were the only ones they had with hdmi, so I guess they must have a shitload of OLD consoles. The Arcade(msrp 199)....no HDMI. The NEW PRO 60gb($299) had components only, too.

So if my new Pro console(with chrome drive cover) was made on 11-11-08, why doesn't it have hdmi? Seeing that an earlier poster from Mantis' 360 **** thread, said that ALL consoles made since October had HDMI.

It's being used by the boys right now and I watched 300 on the HD DVD drive last night.

This is a principal thing...hdmi only helps me eliminate some of the rats nest behind the tv, adds nothing else from what I can see and hear on my 37" lcd and state of the art 2.1 HT.;)

tcrossma

If I have to send something in for repair I expect to either receive my repaired unit back or a direct replacement for it (or the closest possible that is currently in production). But just because you bought the "top of the line" originally does not mean they give you their "top of the line" of today.

If I bought a "top of the line" Bryston amplifier 19 years ago (they come with a 20 year warranty) and I send it in for service today, I certainly don't expect them to give me their latest-greatest product as a replacement; I expect them to fix my unit, or if they can't, give me a replacement that is comparable to my original unit.

I'm pretty sure this is pretty standard of how all manufacturers operate their repairs.

manman

ND13, kuntasensei was pretty much right on every point. ALL of the newer consoles, arcade/pro/elite have HDMI output. Maybe the ones you are seeing on sale at costco don't come with an HDMI cable bundled in, but they do have the port. It's right below the other A/V port. I have a 199 ardcade model in my house on HDMI right now, and there are no 'older' versions of that one, so if costco has the models with arcade and pro on the box they have to have HDMI or something is wrong there. They can also do backwards compatibility.

If you got an older model that really doesn't have hdmi, then also as kuntasensei said, there were no technical differences between the core or premium models. One just game with more stuff in the box- Component cables, HDD, wireless controller etc. Whatever you got back should have the exact same capabilities as what you sent in.

manman

kuntasensei wrote: »

Microsoft will not, however, send you a new HDMI unit if you send in a non-HDMI unit. They merely replace what you had. And as someone who is on 360 number 11 since launch, I say you should count your freakin' blessings that you got a working unit back.

Actually I have a few friends who DID get back a newer version with HDMI when they sent in their older models. That was the one thing that I was happy about when mine failed, and then I got my exact same xbox back, repaired. Weak. I ended up finding a good deal on a used arcade version with extras though, so I ebayed my old one and ended up getting more than I paid for the newer one

spwuinmk67

if you bought it from costco, bring it back with everything that came with it and swap it for a new one, i did it last week so i could get one that has hdmi out. they said it didnt matter when i bought it. i also got $100 back cause i paid $450 instead of the $350 theyre now charging for their bundles.

kuntasensei

ND13 wrote: »

Guess it's all in who you talk to. I knew about the downloads for back compatibility, but was told the new consoles wouldn't jive with it. I guess I'll find out.

You don't even have to do the download anymore. NXE comes with it built-in and the Jaspers (with 256mb of onboard RAM) all work with back compat just fine.

ND13 wrote: »

Another thing, I was just at Wal-Mart and the Elite 120gb($399) were the only ones they had with hdmi, so I guess they must have a shitload of OLD consoles. The Arcade(msrp 199)....no HDMI. The NEW PRO 60gb($299) had components only, too.

There are no 60gb units without HDMI. NONE. And all the Arcade units with two games bundled in have HDMI. Neither comes with the cable, but the HDMI port is there.

ND13 wrote: »

So if my new Pro console(with chrome drive cover) was made on 11-11-08, why doesn't it have hdmi?

Because the one you sent them didn't, and they still have production batches of non-HDMI units. I'm like you, in that I wish they had sent me back an HDMI unit... and once I get around to making an HDMI run to my projector, I'll probably trade in my 360 for a new Arcade with the Jasper chipset. But you still can't really fault Microsoft for replacing what you sent in. I don't see where they've wronged you on this.

manman

and if the one he sent them didn't have hdmi and wasn't the core, then that would be the "premium" not the "pro" wouldn't it. From what I remember the old systems were "core" and "premium", both without HDMI, then they eventually started putting out the arcade, pro, and elites, all with HDMI. I know they changed the chipset partway through on some of those, but I thought the core and premium (for which the actual xbox itself is the same unit besides the chrome bezel) were the only ones without HDMI.

mmadden28

ND13 wrote: »

...

This is a principal thing...hdmi only helps me eliminate some of the rats nest behind the tv, adds nothing else from what I can see and hear on my 37" lcd and state of the art 2.1 HT.;)

May not make a difference to you on a 37" display, but IIRC component video is limited to 1080i, whereas the HDMI gives you 1080p output.

manman

Size of the tv wouldnt make a difference in 1080i vs p anyway. For one thing, they are both the same pixel resolution, and for another if his tv is a flat panel, it's deinterlacing the signal into progressive anyway. When people talk about size of the tv making a difference they are usually comparing signals of different resolutions (like 720 vs 1080) not interlaced vs progressive

ND13

I guess it all comes down to this. I paid top dollar for what was at the time their top "Bundle". They made what?? several hundred thousand BAD units and they knew it. It's just bad biz, imo to send a customer, that spent over $900 on genuine MS gaming/movie gear and only got to use the POS for less than 10 hours of actual gaming...(the rest was using the HD DVD drive) a unit they sell for $199 today. It's not like I bought the thing five years ago or even got any REAL use out of it at all. Another thing, they only gave me a 90 day warranty on this unit, when I had a year left on the first one. You can say whatever you feel like and I'm sorry you've had to deal with 11 or whatever bad units, but I'm not satisfied. It'd be a lot different if this wasn't commonplace. Your supposed to keep your customers happy, well I'm not and I will not relent on this with them until I'm satisfied. I'm laid off, so they can hear from me every friggin day til they get tired of me.

Oh and madden, my tv is 720p, so the 1080p means little to me at this point. When I can afford to waste some cash on a 50'+ screen, then I'll worry about that issue. Won't be anytime soon.

manman

So, are we missing something? Did you send one with hdmi and get a non hdmi unit back? Otherwise i don't see what further problem there should be. You only sent them the unit, not the whole bundle right?

I can see how anybody would be pissed that they would have to send it in so soon in the first place, but im still not clear on how what you received isnt the same as what you sent. Is it because they charge less for it now so you feel you deserve more for payi g the higher price earlier?

kuntasensei

mmadden28 wrote: »

May not make a difference to you on a 37" display, but IIRC component video is limited to 1080i, whereas the HDMI gives you 1080p output.

Component has no such limitation. I'm running mine at 1080p via component and it works just fine.

manman

For games it can do 1080p over component, but for video it can't because of copy protection issues (at least for HD DVD I think, not sure if that's true for video marketplace content cuz I haven't used that yet). Also, some TVs have the limitation of not being able to accept 1080p via component, maybe that's why some people get that idea about 360 over component.

kuntasensei

ND13 wrote: »

I guess it all comes down to this. I paid top dollar for what was at the time their top "Bundle". They made what?? several hundred thousand BAD units and they knew it. It's just bad biz, imo to send a customer, that spent over $900 on genuine MS gaming/movie gear and only got to use the POS for less than 10 hours of actual gaming...(the rest was using the HD DVD drive) a unit they sell for $199 today. It's not like I bought the thing five years ago or even got any REAL use out of it at all. Another thing, they only gave me a 90 day warranty on this unit, when I had a year left on the first one. You can say whatever you feel like and I'm sorry you've had to deal with 11 or whatever bad units, but I'm not satisfied. It'd be a lot different if this wasn't commonplace. Your supposed to keep your customers happy, well I'm not and I will not relent on this with them until I'm satisfied. I'm laid off, so they can hear from me every friggin day til they get tired of me.

Oh and madden, my tv is 720p, so the 1080p means little to me at this point. When I can afford to waste some cash on a 50'+ screen, then I'll worry about that issue. Won't be anytime soon.

A few points:
1) The 360 itself wasn't what you paid so much for. You paid for all the stuff that came with it. And you still have all that stuff. Slap it on your refurb and you have the exact same system you paid for except with the added heatpipe inside to keep the GPU from warping the motherboard, which is exactly what they SHOULD give you. Your argument is basically like saying "I bought an Impala back in 2006 and when it broke down in 2009, Chevrolet refused to give me back a 2009 Impala LT, despite the fact that I only drove mine like 10,000 miles." That doesn't make any sense, no matter how you want to argue it. They have no obligation to you other than to fix the engine in your car and send it back, which is essentially what they've done.

2) For the entire history of consoles, the price drops year by year. For that matter, look at PC parts. A $600 video card today will be $300 by next year... but if you wait to buy, it's outdated and there's another $600 card out that's better. You can't compare how much you paid almost 3 years ago to how much the systems cost now. Of course they're cheaper! What electronics aren't?

3) They sent you one with a silver disc tray. You said so. So they did NOT send you the Arcade. They sent you the Premium, HDMI or not. You retained all your other peripherals (i.e. the 20gb hard drive, cables, controller) that came with your original purchase. Once you put the peripherals back on, you have the same system. Even today, the hardware in the Arcade and Pro are no different. The only difference is what they pack into the box, with the exception of the disc tray color (white vs. silver). Even the Elite. sans peripherals, is just the same hardware with a black case. Are you saying they should send you an Elite? Because without the peripherals (which they're not gonna send you, because you still have yours and they still work - and the 1 year warranty is up on them anyway), the $199 is as good as the $349. There's no difference.

4) Refurbs come with a 90 day parts and labor warranty above and beyond the original parts and labor warranty, which is actually only ONE YEAR (which has expired for you long ago). However, the 3 year warranty for the RROD that was extended by Microsoft DOES apply in your case. Now, that doesn't mean 3 years from the time you received your refurb... That means 3 years from your original date of purchase. If you bought your system at launch, your 3 years is up. If you still have time in that 3 year period since you bought it, it DOES apply to your refurb and Microsoft transferred that warranty info to the new unit when they transferred your DRM licenses.

5) Legally, they made you whole. They gave you back the exact working machine that you sent in, with the same functionality INCLUDING BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY. They also gave you a month of Live to more than replace the time you lost on your subscription while it was being replaced. You aren't going to get anything more from them, nor should you.

I'll be the first to defend people who have had actual issues with Microsoft, because God knows I've had more than probably anyone you know (including over 50 hours of phone time with them since launch, and them losing one of my returns for 2 months). But if I'm being brutally honest, you're being childish. They replaced your system with an aesthetically and functionally identical system, but with an added part to fix the problem that plagued the launch systems. It astounds me that you think you're entitled to more than that. So far, your only arguments in this thread are based on complete misconceptions (i.e. no backwards compatibility or them sending you the "$199 version").

Having said all of that, it's clear that you're still going to continue your tirade against a company that quickly replaced your hardware with improved hardware. Good luck to you, sir. Personally, I hope you don't get a single additional thing from them, because they haven't wronged you.

kuntasensei

manman wrote: »

For games it can do 1080p over component, but for video it can't because of copy protection issues (at least for HD DVD I think, not sure if that's true for video marketplace content cuz I haven't used that yet). Also, some TVs have the limitation of not being able to accept 1080p via component, maybe that's why some people get that idea about 360 over component.

Yeah, I think you're right that the HD-DVD is limited to 1080i over component because of DRM. The HD stuff on the marketplace is all 720p anyway, so no big deal there. I'm running 1080p via component to a Sanyo PLV-Z2000 projector, and it plays 1080p WMV files just fine and in full resolution.

mmadden28

manman wrote: »

For games it can do 1080p over component, but for video it can't because of copy protection issues (at least for HD DVD I think, not sure if that's true for video marketplace content cuz I haven't used that yet). Also, some TVs have the limitation of not being able to accept 1080p via component, maybe that's why some people get that idea about 360 over component.

kuntasensei wrote: »

Yeah, I think you're right that the HD-DVD is limited to 1080i over component because of DRM. The HD stuff on the marketplace is all 720p anyway, so no big deal there. I'm running 1080p via component to a Sanyo PLV-Z2000 projector, and it plays 1080p WMV files just fine and in full resolution.

That's interesting. The specs for the component cable do in fact say "High-definition gaming output of 720p, 1080i or 1080p" but I recall that not being he case when I researched this a year or two ago. The only thing I could find was that I had to use HDMI or the VGA cable (and of course I don't have an HDMI port on mine) to get full 1080p.

My TV is full 1080p native, but the xBox would never switch to 1080p. Everytime I tried it was just a black screen which, as expected, would revert back to 1080i. The TV displays the incoming signal so I knew it was still 1080i. I just presumed that what I thought I had read earlier about the component being limited to 1080i was true and that I would simply have to get a newer unit with an HDMI port. Perhaps I actually have an issue or I'm not doing something right or maybe I confused the video with gaming support in what I read. I am pretty sure I did read that limitation in the specs at some point. If it makes any difference I have a 2nd gen unit without HDMI.

I abandoned using the HD-DVD player awhile ago when I got a stand-alone player (which did native 1080p via HDMI) so lack of 1080p was not a big deal there. Yes my TV will upscale the 1080i to 1080p but they are in fact not the same, but it was still 'pretty' enough for me. Recently I've since moved my console to the 720p projector so it matters even less.

I am still on my original unit. I did have the RRoD a few times, but it only happened when I had the unit vertical-it does not happen when its horizintal. Since its been horizontal I have not had the issue since.