Filtered vs. unfiltered input.

JSK2003
JSK2003 Posts: 28
edited February 2003 in Subwoofer Hookup & Bass Management
Ok, I have another question. :p

I've had my PSW-550 sub setup on a Denon AVR-4800 for about a month now. I have a Monsterbass 400 cable from the sub-out to the LFE IN on the sub.

I have no problems with 5.1 content but I do notice that the bass is weak on stereo content. So I began digging around to look for some info.

My question is related to the inputs on the sub. Would I get better stereo sound using the filtered L/R Line IN inputs over the single LFE IN ? The Monsterbass 400 cable included a Y adapter and I am wondering there would be any difference plugging in the Y adapter into the L/R Line In on the sub ?

Thanks,
-JSK
My setup :

Anthem AVM20
ATI-1505
Sony DVP-NC650V 5-disc DVD/SACD
Microsoft XBox
Polk RM-7200 Theater System
Polk PSW-550 Subwoofer
Bettercables Silver Serpent interconnects
Monster Cable speaker wire
56" Panasonic HDTV
Post edited by JSK2003 on
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Comments

  • dave shepard
    dave shepard Posts: 1,334
    edited February 2003
    I too have the 550 sub and the 202 sub that was given away during the sale before christmas. I've noticed that the 202 has a louder more felt bass then the 550 but the 550 has a smother sound and feel. Depending which you are looking for I have found that both have there pluses and minuses. The 550 having a 8" woffer and the 202 having the 10" might be the reason but am not real sure. I do know that the two together do a good job at producing a good mix of bass levels.

    hope this helps

    Dave
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  • dave shepard
    dave shepard Posts: 1,334
    edited February 2003
    I forgot as to your question I have done a little experimenting with the two inputs and have found that if you use the L/R inputs the way polk suggests using the cross-over to blend the sounds you will get a smother transition of sound between the sub and the speakers, if you use the LFE you will get a stronger more promenit sound out of your sub with less control over the amount of bass produced. I have my 202 set-up using the L/R in-puts and the 550 using LFE I was looking for a good mix of strong felt bass during movies and this seems to work for what I needed.

    Hope this helped (again)

    Dave
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    edited February 2003
    jsk2003,
    after looking over your system,all small settings is what I see for speaker setup correct?
    The sub migh not be calibrated correctly if your not getting music performance out of it.Do you own a SPL meter?
    I wouldn't use the Y adapter for double filtering reasons.Use the Denon for crossover settings.It's been awhile since I played with the AVR4800,refresh my memory,does it have an adjustable crossover in the setup of the receiver?The avr4802 does,but I don't remember if the avr4800 does.If it does,set it around 100.Or even 120.
    I would SLP the system,play some music and tweak up or down the level of the sub to your taste.
    You know I always find problems setting up a system with small speakers and a LFE only sub.The Theater or music suffers.It's tuff to get them both to work perfectly.
    I'm not telling you to look into REL sub's dueto there cost(unless your into it)But REL has solved this problem with there design.REL sub's have 2 built in preamps.One for speaker level and one for LFE or line level in.Both per amps have independant volume or level settings.This is extremely usefull for music and theater setups.I love it.
    Well back to your system.Like I said ,play with the level of the sub,use the crossover in the Denon,It I remember correctly,it does have an adjustable crossover setting.Use the SPL meter for setup, then tweak afterwards with some music.
    Good luck man.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    If you are filtering at the receiver, DO NOT use the L/R low level inputs. Use ONLY the LFE (unfiltered) input.

    If you filter at the receiver and use the L/R filtered inputs, you will double filter the signal.

    If you need more bass on music as compared to DVDs (this is a common problem), then simply temporarily increase the sub volume at the receiver.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • JSK2003
    JSK2003 Posts: 28
    edited February 2003
    Thanks for all of the information. :)

    I have had this Denon receiver now for almost 2 years and honestly I never knew it to have crossover settings for a sub. So last night I took out the manual just to make sure. I could find no information indicating that there is an adjustable crossover for the sub.

    I guess for now I'll just live with the difference in DVD vs. CD audio. As Dr. Spec noted I'll just continue to adjust the sub volume when listening to music. I just wanted to make sure I was using the right input for my system setup.

    Thanks again,

    -JSK
    My setup :

    Anthem AVM20
    ATI-1505
    Sony DVP-NC650V 5-disc DVD/SACD
    Microsoft XBox
    Polk RM-7200 Theater System
    Polk PSW-550 Subwoofer
    Bettercables Silver Serpent interconnects
    Monster Cable speaker wire
    56" Panasonic HDTV
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  • dholmes
    dholmes Posts: 1,136
    edited February 2003
    Hey, jsk 2003, What setting do you have with the THX LFE? Do you have it set with LFE+MAINS or the other settting which I forget. I set my 4800 on the setting where the LFE goes to sub & Large on mains only . The 4800 crossover is set at 80hz since it is a THX system. Ask DR SPEC He knows bass, He helped my 2 sub system by placing both soubs on top of each other. Hope I helped My mains are set to large because they are the rti150
    My HT set-up Panasonic front proj, 120 in ws screen, ATI amp,Integra 9.8 pre-pro, 2 Polk rti150, cp 1000, 4 fx 1000, Pioneer blu-ray 2 SVS sub pb 12-ultra 2, & Paragon popcorn popper. ps 3 Coaster leather HT recliners.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2003
    Originally posted by JSK2003
    Thanks for all of the information. :)

    I have had this Denon receiver now for almost 2 years and honestly I never knew it to have crossover settings for a sub. So last night I took out the manual just to make sure. I could find no information indicating that there is an adjustable crossover for the sub.

    I guess for now I'll just live with the difference in DVD vs. CD audio. As Dr. Spec noted I'll just continue to adjust the sub volume when listening to music. I just wanted to make sure I was using the right input for my system setup.

    Thanks again,

    -JSK

    Keep in mind JSK, that CD's will never pump out as much bass (LFE) as DVD's will. they can't.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • JSK2003
    JSK2003 Posts: 28
    edited February 2003
    DHolmes - I have my system set at LFE-THX which seems to be the best for my sub/sat combo. According to the owners manual from Denon this setting causes all bass to be directed to the sub. LFE-Mains states that normal bass is still sent to the L/C/R and LFE goes to the sub.

    -JSK
    My setup :

    Anthem AVM20
    ATI-1505
    Sony DVP-NC650V 5-disc DVD/SACD
    Microsoft XBox
    Polk RM-7200 Theater System
    Polk PSW-550 Subwoofer
    Bettercables Silver Serpent interconnects
    Monster Cable speaker wire
    56" Panasonic HDTV
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  • Sumflow
    Sumflow Posts: 64
    edited February 2003
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    If you are filtering at the receiver, use ONLY the LFE (unfiltered) input.
    It sure looks like a lot of us have the same problem with Polk sub woofers.
    "At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."

    Enzo Ferrari
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Originally posted by JSK2003
    DHolmes - I have my system set at LFE-THX which seems to be the best for my sub/sat combo. According to the owners manual from Denon this setting causes all bass to be directed to the sub. LFE-Mains states that normal bass is still sent to the L/C/R and LFE goes to the sub.

    -JSK

    "LFE-THX" is the best way by far for a sub/sat combo.

    "LFE-Mains" will kill the tiny sats and sound rotten, and is only designed for full range speakers all around. Even then, introducing several sources of low bass in one room has its own set of problems. Even with large speaks all around, high passing all of them at 80 Hz often results in the best sound.

    Sumflow, it is actually to Polk's CREDIT that they provide an unfiltered input on most of their subs. Almost everyone high passes at the receiver or pre-pro these days, because digital bass management is more flexible and also makes life easier on the speaker amps.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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