Starting my SDA restoration

Bigerik
Bigerik Posts: 149
edited January 2009 in Vintage Speakers
Finally getting around to doing some restoration work on my SDA 1B's. First step:
Ordering some RDO 194 tweeters.

Next step: Gonna poke around here and figure out how exactly I want to rebuild the crossovers with good quality components. Not gonna try to reinvent the wheel. Seems that a lot of you guys have done a good job on the crossovers already with great results.

Of course, if anyone has any thoughts or recommendations, they are much appreciated.

Will post here as things develop.
Post edited by Bigerik on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
«1

Comments

  • fbm211
    fbm211 Posts: 1,488
    edited January 2009
    Sonicaps are best for crossover rebuilds.A good alternative is dayton 1% that you can get at parts express.The sonicaps available at soniccraft.com will run around twice as much.And Mills or mundorf resistors are great.(Mills are a little warmer sounding than mundorfs I hear)And you can always go dayton caps on the low pass and sonicaps on the high.
    SDA-2BTL with custom IC
    Adcom 565 monoblocks--Monarchy Audio M-10 preamp
    Theta Data Basic Transport--Stello DA100 Signature DAC--Camelot Dragon Pro2 MK III
    Harman Kardon T-55c TT
    DH Labs Q-10 Signature Speaker Cables With Furez silver plated copper bananas
    Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver Reference AES/EBU
    Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver i2s digital cable
    4 Furutech FP-314Ag with FI-11cu Plugs/FI-11AG IECs--- Power Cords
    DH LABS REVELATIONS ICs-amps
    Revelation Audio Labs Paradise cryo-silver ICs-Source to pre
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    Well, looks like the start of the project is a few weeks further away than I thought. Will not be able to get the tweeters from Polk Canada for another 2 plus weeks at best.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,746
    edited January 2009
    Hey Erik, when you're ready I'd be glad to help answer any questions you have.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Hey Erik, when you're ready I'd be glad to help answer any questions you have.

    Thanks Jesse.
    Right now, I don't even know what questions to ask! :)

    My plan is to do a stock restoration with better quality modern parts (194's and Sonicaps). If there is a better way, please let me know.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,746
    edited January 2009
    Ok, I take it you know what cap values you need and that Mills 12 watt resistors are recommended. There are some very large cap values in your speakers and Sonicap's don't come that large, so you might want to look at Solen for those. Dayton may be another choice, but I don't know if they come that large.

    Some other tweaks while you're at it. Remove all the 750pF bypass caps and do not replace them as they are no longer needed. Remove the polyswitches, if you're not in the habit of clipping your amp(s) and replace each one with a jumper.

    Another tweak that I like to do is apply Dynamat Extreme to all the driver baskets and the PR baskets. This stops any ringing of the stamped steel baskets.

    Have you considered replacing the binding posts?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    Thanks Jesse.
    Hadn't thought about the binding posts at all. Probably worthwhile to do. The ones there are not that great. How about the interconnect? You thinking that one too?

    Is going with the 198 as compared to the 194 a mod I should be thinking of? As Polk Canada is closed until Monday or something, I have a few more days to decide which way to go with tweeters.

    I saw references in other threads stating that you recommend doing stuff one step at a time. What order do you recommend doing it?

    I thought I found the thread with all the cap values I need. Gotta dig that up again.

    Did some reading tonight, and realized I need to do more reading.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,746
    edited January 2009
    A lot of folks upgrade the interconnect and report good things. You can buy new blade/blade connectors here, https://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=750-3200&SEARCH=P%2D302%2DCCT&ID=&DESC=P%2D302%2DCCT

    With your speakers you can only use the RD0194-1's.

    Nah, all of this stuff is tried and true, so knock yourself out. :)

    What you will need in total.

    Caps:
    (2) 12uF Sonicap
    (2) 4.4uF Sonicap
    (4) 34uF Solen or other (you could use 17uF Sonicap's in parallel, total of 8)
    (2) 85 or 83uF (can't make it out) Solen or other
    (2) 130uF Solen or other

    Resistors:
    (2) 2.0 ohm 12 watt Mills
    (6) 2.7 ohm 12 watt Mills
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2009
    This should be enough: http://www.amazon.com/Dynamat-10425-Xtreme-Wedge-Sheet/dp/B00020CAVA/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1231421148&sr=8-6
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    A lot of folks upgrade the interconnect and report good things. You can buy new blade/blade connectors here, https://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=750-3200&SEARCH=P%2D302%2DCCT&ID=&DESC=P%2D302%2DCCT

    With your speakers you can only use the RD0194-1's.

    Nah, all of this stuff is tried and true, so knock yourself out. :)

    What you will need in total.

    Caps:
    (2) 12uF Sonicap
    (2) 4.4uF Sonicap
    (4) 34uF Solen or other (you could use 17uF Sonicap's in parallel, total of 8)
    (2) 85 or 83uF (can't make it out) Solen or other
    (2) 130uF Solen or other

    Resistors:
    (2) 2.0 ohm 12 watt Mills
    (6) 2.7 ohm 12 watt Mills

    Actually, didn't I see some guy on here insisting that the SL2000 was a better tweeter? :D

    Those are some big **** caps in there. Judging by the threads I have seen on some of the other SDA's looks like there were some pretty big differences in cap values.

    In the enquiring minds want to know category, I did see some people talking about adding a 5.8 or something cap and going with the 198's. Is that not a workable option for me or just not something I want to bother with?

    Thanks for the info.
    Erik
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2009
    Bigerik wrote: »
    In the enquiring minds want to know category, I did see some people talking about adding a 5.8 or something cap and going with the 198's. Is that not a workable option for me or just not something I want to bother with?
    For SDA's, I believe that only applies to the pin/blade 2B and P/B CRS(+?).
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    Face wrote: »
    For SDA's, I believe that only applies to the pin/blade 2B and P/B CRS(+?).

    Gotcha!
    Thanks
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,746
    edited January 2009
    Bigerik wrote: »
    Actually, didn't I see some guy on here insisting that the SL2000 was a better tweeter? :D

    Yes you did and now he's gone. :D





    Face is right, that will not work with your speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • davidk0512
    davidk0512 Posts: 157
    edited January 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    A lot of folks upgrade the interconnect and report good things. You can buy new blade/blade connectors here, https://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=750-3200&SEARCH=P%2D302%2DCCT&ID=&DESC=P%2D302%2DCCT

    With your speakers you can only use the RD0194-1's.

    Nah, all of this stuff is tried and true, so knock yourself out. :)

    What you will need in total.

    Caps:
    (2) 12uF Sonicap
    (2) 4.4uF Sonicap
    (4) 34uF Solen or other (you could use 17uF Sonicap's in parallel, total of 8)
    (2) 85 or 83uF (can't make it out) Solen or other
    (2) 130uF Solen or other

    Resistors:
    (2) 2.0 ohm 12 watt Mills
    (6) 2.7 ohm 12 watt Mills

    The "85 or 83 uF" should actually be a 65uF, it's hard to read, so I checked with Ken a couple of months back when I was getting ready to order parts for mine.
    David
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yes you did and now he's gone. :D





    Face is right, that will not work with your speakers.

    :D

    Thanks. So much SDA info on here that it is hard to sort out sometime what applies to what.
    Someone should write a book about them... :)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    davidk0512 wrote: »
    The "85 or 83 uF" should actually be a 65uF, it's hard to read, so I checked with Ken a couple of months back when I was getting ready to order parts for mine.

    Excellent!
    Thanks much.

    BTW, is there a thread here showing pics of someone doing the rebuild on a 1B? Found threads on almost every other SDA it seems....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,104
    edited January 2009
    Well, this thread is just about perfect.

    I need to "investigate" my 1Bs; they sound SO much better when the SDA interconnect is NOT connected. I suspect something is wrong; although all the drivers seem to be connected properly and working.

    I can solder; but I'm not experienced in electronics so I've been waiting for someone else to do it and post results.

    Have at it, Bigerik. Post lots of photos when you're done!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    Schurkey wrote: »

    Have at it, Bigerik. Post lots of photos when you're done!

    Oh Sure!
    Put all the pressure on me! :)

    Will do!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,746
    edited January 2009
    davidk0512 wrote: »
    The "85 or 83 uF" should actually be a 65uF, it's hard to read, so I checked with Ken a couple of months back when I was getting ready to order parts for mine.


    Thanks for clearing that up, David. I would have never thought that was a 6.....LOL
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Thanks for clearing that up, David. I would have never thought that was a 6.....LOL

    Agreed.
    I squinted hard at it too.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    A lot of folks upgrade the interconnect and report good things. You can buy new blade/blade connectors here, https://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=750-3200&SEARCH=P%2D302%2DCCT&ID=&DESC=P%2D302%2DCCT

    With your speakers you can only use the RD0194-1's.

    Nah, all of this stuff is tried and true, so knock yourself out. :)

    What you will need in total.

    Caps:
    (2) 12uF Sonicap
    (2) 4.4uF Sonicap
    (4) 34uF Solen or other (you could use 17uF Sonicap's in parallel, total of 8)
    (2) 65 uF Solen or other
    (2) 130uF Solen or other

    Resistors:
    (2) 2.0 ohm 12 watt Mills
    (6) 2.7 ohm 12 watt Mills


    Checked with my local Solen dealer, and they said the closest they can get is a 36 uF instead of a 34 and a 68mF instead of a 65.
    Just how picky are the SDA's?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2009
    Within 5% is golden.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    Face wrote: »
    Within 5% is golden.

    Excellent.
    Thank you sir.
    Looks like I am in business.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,746
    edited January 2009
    Erik, you can narrow it down a bit.

    Use a 16 + 18 to get 34uF

    Use a 33 + 36 to get 66uF

    http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/CapacitorsFilm.html
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Erik, you can narrow it down a bit.

    Use a 16 + 18 to get 34uF

    Use a 33 + 36 to get 66uF

    http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/CapacitorsFilm.html

    You are right. Of course.
    (except for the math part. In Canada, 33 + 36 don't equal 66 :) ).

    Was just being lazy and wanted to stay with single caps.
    But I do need to do this right...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,746
    edited January 2009
    Oops, that was suppose to be a 30, not a 33. Damn no edit feature.....Justin!!!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • wingzam
    wingzam Posts: 201
    edited January 2009
    This is the info I was looking for. Don't forget those pictures! BTW,here in America 33+36 equals whatever we want...and we'll add as many zeros as we want to thank you!!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2009
    Face wrote: »
    For SDA's, I believe that only applies to the pin/blade 2B and P/B CRS(+?).

    I know this does not pertain to the model in this thread, but wanted to correct the above. My SDA-2B's with BLADE/BLADE were perfectly upgraded with the awesome RDO198-1's.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74945
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2009
    Bigerik,

    It looks like the schematics for you 1B crossovers are identical to my SDA SRS 2's that I just restored and the following thread might help.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74946
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2009
    Bigerik wrote: »
    Checked with my local Solen dealer, and they said the closest they can get is a 36 uF instead of a 34 and a 68mF instead of a 65.
    Just how picky are the SDA's?

    Your large low pass caps are a 130uf and 55 uf (not 85 or 65 as has been published in error). I used a 100+82 Aeon supplied by Sonic Craft in my rebuild. The caps are so large I had to mount them off-board.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bigerik
    Bigerik Posts: 149
    edited January 2009
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    Your large low pass caps are a 130uf and 55 uf (not 85 or 65 as has been published in error). I used a 100+82 Aeon supplied by Sonic Craft in my rebuild. The caps are so large I had to mount them off-board.

    55? Are you sure? Thought we had confirmation from Ken at Polk of it being 65...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter