I need LSi adivce

Shizelbs · January 2003

This is my first post on this forum. I am a college student. That is relevant for this discussion. I have always loved music. For the last year or so now, I am just now discovering what good speakers can do for movies, video games and music. It all started when I got a cheap $150 Sony subwoofer. Yes, laugh now. But remember, I am a college student. I realize that it does not hit the lows perfect, but I love it. So, in October, I bought a pair of R40's. I love them too. I think they sound so great. I realize that there is much better out there, but the great thing about having them at home, is that I can't compare them to anything else. So, they sound great. Please don't try to be too elitist here. I think they sound great for what I paid. Anyways, I have come across a little money. I was thinking about upgrading my speakers a touch. First, I was thinking about adding the LsiC center channel speaker. Do you all think this would be too great a mismatch in the timbre from my R40's? Also, I was thinking I could even get the LSi15's in addition to the LSi center channel. It should also be mentioned that my receiver is a Sony (an inheritance) and my CD player is just okay. Are these speakers going to be unfulfilled with mediocre electronics? Should I just wait and be happy with what I have? What are your thoughts, and please don't try to bash my current setup and lack of audio sophistication. Thanks!

F1nut · January 2003

Shizelbs,

Welcome!

All that matters is if you like your system. If you want to get the LSi's, the Sony will drive them, but not anywhere near their potential. You really need a seperate amp and pre/amp. Not knowing what your funds are, that could be more than you want to spend. You might consider buying the seperates now and get the LSi's later.The upside to getting new power would be that your present speakers would sound alot better and you may not mind waiting on new speakers.

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.....

F1nut

Shizelbs · January 2003

Thanks and thanks for the welcome.

Yeah, I can't afford all that. I just want to graduate when I can afford all that, and probably will do it. I just love music, thats all.

Frank Z · January 2003

Shizelbs,
Welcome to the forum!
If the retailer that you plan on buying from has a good return policy you could buy them and try 'em out next to your R40's. If you like them, keep 'em.... If not take them back. Warning!!You'll probably keep them.:)

Shizelbs · January 2003

Thanks Frank Z

phuz · January 2003

Lots of good advice so far.

You sound just like me a year ago. I first started with a pair of R40's and an old JVC receiver and I've steadily upgraded to what I think is a killer LSi system over the last year.

R40's are indeed good speakers, especially for the price. But I can't help but giggle when you say "upgrade a touch" Going from R40 to LSi is like going from a Honda to a Porche!

Anyway, I think what you need is an upgrade path. Think of where you want to be in a year or two, then figure out how to do it. Baby steps will give you time to research and find exactly what you want, at the best prices.

You want to have seperates and LSi speakers all the way around in a year or two? Start with components. The first thing I got was a new reciever with pre outs. Then I got an amp, then I started getting the speakers, sources, and cables. Your upgrade path will most likely be different depending on budget and what your final goal is, but you get the point.

Welcome to the club, and let us know how things go!

Steve@3dai · January 2003

You don't need a seperate PrePro-Amp combo to drive the LSi line. A nice high current receiver would do the trick as well, you just have to be careful of which ones you choose.

Personally, I think you should upgrade the electronics first, and then the speakers. You'll be impressed on what the R40s can do with a NICE amp behind them. By upgrading the speakers first, you will tire of the flaws of the amplifier and CD player. By doing the amp/cd first then you'll get the most out of your current R40s and will be prepared for the LSi onslaught!

Tour2ma · January 2003

Originally posted by Steve@3dai
You don't need a seperate PrePro-Amp combo to drive the LSi line. A nice high current receiver would do the trick as well, you just have to be careful of which ones you choose.

Personally, I think you should upgrade the electronics first, and then the speakers. You'll be impressed on what the R40s can do with a NICE amp behind them. By upgrading the speakers first, you will tire of the flaws of the amplifier and CD player. By doing the amp/cd first then you'll get the most out of your current R40s and will be prepared for the LSi onslaught!

Sorta Ditto and Dead on Ditto, respectively there Steve...

Shizelbs
If you go to the LSi15's you're moving not only from an 8 ohm load to a 4, but down from a 90db efficient speaker to an 88db. For the same "volume" (SPL) in your dorm room (or wherever) you are going to ask that lil' old receiver for almost 3.4 times the current. (check my math here guys).
You still haven't said what Receiver you have, but I smell trouble brewing there... or maybe that's an LSi tweeter frying from all the clipping going on. If you listen as loud as I did in college, its a real possibility.

If you're talkin' the 15's, you're talking about having at least $1200 of mad money here (Santa was pretty good, eh?).

Before I go (and on), two warnings about my biases:
- I strongly favor separates over Receivers (more flexibility); and
- I love Carver and B&K, it's why I own them and continue to buy them.

My Advice:
Run to your computer and log onto e-bay. And slap this link into your browser.
http://cq-search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&st=2&SortProperty=MetaHighestPriceSort&query=carver+M+%2Dmanual&ebaytag1=ebayavail&ebaycurr=1&ebaytag1code=1&siteid=0&ht=1&maxRecordsPerPage=25&category0=293&combine=y&from=R9
Its a search for "carver m -manual".

Right now there's a Carver M4.0t up for bid, a M400t (cube) and a M200t. The 4.0 should go for ~$400, the 400 ~$300 and the 200 for ~$170. The 200 will be the deal here, you can bridge it to mono for an nice, 150w (or so) center channel amp. More 200s and some 500s will come along soon. An M500t running in stereo would make a great match for the bridged 200 center.
Only look at those Carvers carrying the t designation, the step up to this line was significant. Ask the seller(s) if theyve been serviced. The better answer is yes, it means they likely been upgraded by Carver, but if its no, thats OK, too.
There are also a couple of 1.5ts thatll go for ~$400, but you may end up bidding against me. I own a 1.5t and always have wanted to find it a mate.

Or you could get it all over with and buy this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3003748673&category=14973
Itll go for ~$500-$550. For that much I prefer it if seller takes PayPal of CCs, but hes an e-bay Store seller so

If your receiver has pre-amp outputs, youre done, but

Assuming your Receiver does not have Pre-amp outputs, next slip this link in:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14978&item=3004017347
Its a search for "b&k avp 2000". You dont see these too often, especially complete with remote and manual. One's up now that's going to go for <<$100. It's only rigged for Dolby Pro, but hey, you're in college. Its a wonderfully clean pre-amp (I own one) and will always have use in a second system or a Stereo only rig.

Either way on the pre-amp out question, with the $700 or so you have left first, get a good progressive scan DVD. With the DVD player you've upgraded your so-so CD play-back capability. And you still have at least $400 to spend on a center channel. You can use the old receivers tuner via its tape out connections to the B&K.

Later on you can go AVR or whatever, and youll still have a couple nice amps to drive sub(s), or an extra couple channels. Even the most die-hard of our AVR clubbers have or are looking for power amps to drive additional channels.

One last question, you bought your R40's in Oct. Does the dealer offer a 1-year upgrade period? If so, you could land those LSi15's by summer's end, and have plenty of power to drive them.

Hope this is useful I do tend to go on a bit, but just tryin to help. If any questions, please ask.

Shizelbs · January 2003

I just wanted to thank everyone for their great replies. I am learning so much, so quickly. You all are really helping me shape my opinions and ideas. I really like the idea of an upgrade path. I think that is sound advice. And, there is never anything wrong with going on and on. I can handle the technical jargon pretty well for knowing little. I think because of my crappy components, I am going to wait on the 15's, probably. But I still need a center channel. I know the timbre of the LSi center will not match my R40's, but unless it would sound "bad" I would rather buy it than buy the Rti40, or whatever it is, I forget (I just got out of class), just to upgrade to the LSiC later. So, again, thanks, and I really appreciate everything. Let me all know what you think, and yes, my dealer does offer an upgrade return.

Thanks to all!

Tour2ma · January 2003

Good luck and welcome to the Club...

We'll all be curious to know the path you've taken and how you feel about your progress.

Tour2ma · January 2003

Shizelbs,

I know you're wanting a little peace and reflection time, but I came across a couple more e-bay deals that are shaping up to be too good to pass on... like 5 x 105w of really clean power for very, very cheap (way it looks now)...

There's the possibility that you can get all the electronics you need AND move up to the LSi 15's now with a trade in of your RT's...

e-mail me if you are interested...(click on the "profile" button at the bottom of this post to get to my e-mail link).

Zen Dragon · January 2003

Shizelbs,
It really sounds like these guys have you on the right track. One thing I didn't see mentioned previously is the fact that the LSI9's can be had for a fair bit less money than the LSI15's, and they are really an extremely impressive speaker. Don't let the size fool you. If you look at the design, the LSI15 is basically an LSI9 in a big cabinet, with the larger bass driver in the bottom. The 9's pack the same umph, and great sound, you just lose a little low end, but you can cover that with your present sub until you are ready to upgrade your sub.
If you've got a thing for that tower look, well then the 9's won't exite ya, but they are one hell of a speaker.

Steve@3dai · January 2003

Zen - agreed!!! My friends keep asking where the sub is, and I don't even have one

Shizelbs · February 2003

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all their help and suggestions!

Tour2ma · February 2003

You're welcome, please keep us aprised of your progress...

Dr. Spec · February 2003

Originally posted by Tour2ma
If you go to the LSi15's you're moving not only from an 8 ohm load to a 4, but down from a 90db efficient speaker to an 88db. For the same "volume" (SPL) in your dorm room (or wherever) you are going to ask that lil' old receiver for almost 3.4 times the current. (check my math here guys).
You still haven't said what Receiver you have, but I smell trouble brewing there... or maybe that's an LSi tweeter frying from all the clipping going on.

I STRONGLY concur - very good advice.

Nearly all "mid-fi" A/V receivers are rated for an 8 ohm load. A handful of the better ones are rated for 6 ohms. I can count on one hand the ones that are rated for an honest 4 ohm load.

LSi = high current 4 ohm rated amps. Do not compromise here or you will be sorry.

mantis · February 2003

Here's a list of receivers that I would consider to run the Lsi's.
1)B&K avr507
2)Rotel rsx1065
3)Rotel rsx1055
4)Pioneer Elite vsx49txi
5)Pioneer Elite vsx47tx
6)Sunfire Ultimate receiver
7)Marantz sr9200
8)Marantz sr8200
I don't like Denon running 4 ohm loads even in the avr5803,which it can but struggles.You can hear it give up at high vloumes.
The Yamaha rxz1 is way to bright.This receiver isn't very detailed.It also lacks 2 surround back channels,only one.
Kenwood??NO
Onkyo?NO
Integra?Can play a 4 ohm load ok, stable in the DTR8.3 and 9.1(a replacement is coming).I also feel Integra is just 2 bright and forward.Alot like Yamaha with there sound quality.Not the worse on the market but picky when it comes to speakers you mate them with.They do a good job with setup,give you an ok remote,power reserves are ok at best but not would I would run with Lsi.Rt....if you like the sound yeah all day.
Sony receivers are nice ,warm and solid for what they do,4 ohm load???well again they will hold it for a while but don't ask 2 much out of it.Es is what I'm refering 2.No Lsi here I don't see it.
Your best bet with Lsi series speakers is seperates.There is alot to choose from that would be a good choice.This requires alot of demoing to find the correct amps for you.
I say if your going to invest the money in Lsi,finish it off with good amps and good wire.Your on your way to better hi fi,why stop at the speakers?

Tour2ma · February 2003

Mantis,
Good stuff, but a little pricey for our college lad here, no? Any of the AVR's you listed under $1000?

A bit surprised on your Onkyo v Integra comments, especially since come from same Manf. I was looking at both sites and Onkyo actually struck me as touting their 4 ohm capability more than Integra. Not challenging you, I'm taking yours as the VOA here, just making an observation.

B&K's AVP2000 and AV5000 went for a combined $550 in two separate e-bay auctions over the weekend. I'd be curious as to your view on how they'd have fit the bill here? I know this is only a Pro-Logic rig, but it stuck me as a decent upgrade route for Shizelbs.

Edit: PS - Mantis, did you see my post on B&K's AV2000 "upgrade" offer? Also, I tried to send you an e-mail on a "set" of B&K silver sep's... hope you got it.

Shizelbs · February 2003

I really appreciate all the discussion that has gone on with this post. I think that where I am now, with really no consistant income, I am going to be happy with my R40's and cheap-o sub. I think while I still am very happy with the quality they are putting out, I might as well hang out to them. Plus, the more I read from all you and elsewhere, the more I realize how much I would want to spend to get it all done right the first time. I think what I may end up doing for now is look for a genuinely good CD player, either as a stand-alone, or as a DVD player, and invest in a center channel speaker as well to match my R40's. So, again, thanks for all the help and advice.

I need LSi adivce

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