What makes a subwoofer good

specd_out

This is not the typical what sub is better but more of what makes a sub better than another. I searched but cant really find anything that answers all my questions. I am curently looking at a dsw pro 500 and tring to stay below 4-500. so what things should i be looking for in this price range

leroyjr1

Are you going to use it for music or HT?

McLoki

For home theater uses, it comes down to 3 things.

1) The ability to dig deep. (25hz or lower preferably - can be hard in that price range)
2) The ability to move alot of air. (big woofers (in diameter) with lots of x-max (or some combination there of))
3) The ability to start and stop quickly. (quality woofers with good amps behind them.)

That is about it. Different designs and approaches accent some abilities over others, but those are the 3 you are really looking for.

Michael

Kex

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Are you going to use it for music or HT?

I think that's the biggest question that needs to be asked. The C.W. is that for a musical priority, you must go with a sealed subwoofer. For Home Theater, a vented/ported subwoofer will probably be better. If you stick with a HT priority, you may find it sounds boomy for music, especially classical/vocals etc. ...

McLoki

Kex wrote: »

I think that's the biggest question that needs to be asked. The C.W. is that for a musical priority, you must go with a sealed subwoofer. For Home Theater, a vented/ported subwoofer will probably be better. If you stick with a HT priority, you may find it sounds boomy for music, especially classical/vocals etc. ...

I disagree (in general - you may be correct for his price range). There are quality musical subs that are ported (SVS PB-13 Ultra, many HSU subs and the Polk MicroPro series) and sealed subs that are very good for home theater (basically any infinite baffle sub is a very large sealed design).

It all comes down to how well it is executed....

comfortablycurt

I've always been under the impression that when deciding between ported/non-ported it really depended on what kind of music you listen to.

Depending on the type of music you listen to, and what kind of bass you listen to, couldn't a ported sub be better for it, because of the boominess? Many kinds of hard rock and metal, as well as most rap and a lot dance music put a lot of emphasis on really "in your face" bass, that has a really boomy sound. Where as classical, jazz, country, and most other kinds of rock with a tighter more focused bass style would be better through a sealed sub.

Am I right in thinking this, or is that way off? I've been researching subs a lot lately...and I have no idea what I want to get yet, my mind has changed about 10 times in the last few days. Hopefully this thread will help me decide as well...

dorokusai

I tend to look at the ancenstry of the parents and do public domain criminal background checks on their kinfolk.

Kex

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I've always been under the impression that when deciding between ported/non-ported it really depended on what kind of music you listen to.

Depending on the type of music you listen to, and what kind of bass you listen to, couldn't a ported sub be better for it, because of the boominess? Many kinds of hard rock and metal, as well as most rap and a lot dance music put a lot of emphasis on really "in your face" bass, that has a really boomy sound. Where as classical, jazz, country, and most other kinds of rock with a tighter more focused bass style would be better through a sealed sub.

Am I right in thinking this, or is that way off? I've been researching subs a lot lately...and I have no idea what I want to get yet, my mind has changed about 10 times in the last few days. Hopefully this thread will help me decide as well...

My instinct would be to say that you are right. But even with techy type music (Hotel Costes), I did not like the boominess of the ported design I was using (good quality entry level H100, so not comparable to SVS, eD or HSU etc. ...). I'm still fiddling with my new sealed sub to get it right, but initial impressions are that it diminishes some of the HT "shock and awe", and improves musical bass. The biggest improvement I got for musical bass, by far (quantity, quality, and precision), was adding a NAD receiver, compared to both a h/k receiver and an Emotiva separates combination (LMC-1 & LPA-1).

Kex

dorokusai wrote: »

I tend to look at the ancenstry of the parents and do public domain criminal background checks on their kinfolk.

Interesting perspective ...

specd_out

priority is music I listen to a vast array of music from classical to jazz to alternive rock and classic rock. Just dont care for country and rap.
For music the psw10 isnt all bad but i know theres room for improvement. where it really lets me down is in movies anything with some really good lfe sound and the sub just dies.I really want something that hits really hard but also remains accurate. Right now I have a psw10 now i know its not a great sub, but the problem i have is its not loud enough and it just sounds really messy with the vol up. I guess some key words for me in order of importance accurate, deep, loud.

leroyjr1

specd_out wrote: »

priority is music I listen to a vast array of music from classical to jazz to alternive rock and classic rock. Just dont care for country and rap.
For music the psw10 isnt all bad but i know theres room for improvement. where it really lets me down is in movies anything with some really good lfe sound and the sub just dies.I really want something that hits really hard but also remains accurate. Right now I have a psw10 now i know its not a great sub, but the problem i have is its not loud enough and it just sounds really messy with the vol up. I guess some key words for me in order of importance accurate, deep, loud.

The psw10 is Polk's entry level sub. Anything you get will be an improvement IMO.

comfortablycurt

leroyjr1 wrote: »

The psw10 is Polk's entry level sub. Anything you get will be an improvement IMO.

It'd probably be pretty hard to find a cheaper sub than the PSW10 though too...about 100 bucks shipped from Polk Direct. It's one of those "get what ya pay for" deals though. It's half decent for a hundred bucks though. I'd rather buy something better myself.

Hilbert

Audio Advisor is still selling Velodyne SPL-800R for $499.99. Free shipping, no tax if outside Michigan. Just sayin'.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VESP800R

Chameleon2

Hilbert wrote: »

Audio Advisor is still selling Velodyne SPL-800R for $499.99. Free shipping, no tax if outside Michigan. Just sayin'.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VESP800R

How would the DSW MicroPRO 1000 compare with the SPL-800R?

pearsall001

Kex wrote: »

I think that's the biggest question that needs to be asked. The C.W. is that for a musical priority, you must go with a sealed subwoofer. For Home Theater, a vented/ported subwoofer will probably be better. If you stick with a HT priority, you may find it sounds boomy for music, especially classical/vocals etc. ...

My findings exactly. Whereas the SVS 25-31Plus (ported design) was great for HT, no matter what I tried it just wouldn't cooperate in playing nice for my 2 channel system. Now moving up to the Velo SPL-1200R (sealed design) it too is great for HT & excels in my 2 channel system. A world of difference between the two of them.

I'm sure there are great ported designs that perform equally as well in HT & 2 channel, but my experience lends me to go with the sealed design.

specd_out

what does the wattage have to do with how a subwoofer performs. I have seen some, DSW pro 500 that has 200 watts and then the SPL 800-r has 1000 2000 rating both in th esame price range. why such a difference in wattage

Greg Kester

cnet.com
where you will get definitely good quality of information regarding this issue.

apphd

Generally speaking sealed subs take a lot more power to get low with usable spl especially in small volume size cabinets. The SPL 800-r is a sealed sub, the DSW pro 500 is ported, if you jump up to the DSW 1000 micro-pro it is sealed and has a 1200w amp. There are ported subs that do music as well as HT and there are sealed subs that do HT as well as music, but with these it comes with a good price tag. In the $400 -$500 range you will probably need to compromise on one end or the other. There are a lot of good to very good choices in this price point, but none that really shine at either.

You probably have gotten the most out of the PSW 10 you are going to get, but location, and room charactoristics/treatments play a huge part in bass/sub performance, so as with any sub you might be able to get a little more out of it with playing around with those. Of course YMMV

Early B.

specd_out wrote: »

This is not the typical what sub is better but more of what makes a sub better than another.

There's only one answer -- how does the sub sound?

Remember -- a subwoofer is a speaker, so just as you would judge the quality of a pair of fronts by the sound, you judge a sub in the same manner.

More specifically, you have to study a little bit about build quality. Subs are simple -- typically there's only an amp, a driver, and a cabinet. IMO, the amp is the most important factor. The vast majority of plate amps out there are pathetic performers.

Kex

Early B. wrote: »

... Subs are simple -- typically there's only an amp, a driver, and a cabinet. IMO, the amp is the most important factor. The vast majority of plate amps out there are pathetic performers.

Was the amp the weak link in the older generation Polk subs, that didn't get much respect?

speakergeek

Simple. The more it shakes your house, the better the sub is....:D

kolyan2k

specd_out wrote: »

This is not the typical what sub is better but more of what makes a sub better than another. I searched but cant really find anything that answers all my questions. I am curently looking at a dsw pro 500 and tring to stay below 4-500. so what things should i be looking for in this price range

I like my Martin Logan Dynamo subs

I have not heard other subs except for ML Depth and I still think that Dynamo are really nice and they are small too

SlowcarIX

speakergeek wrote: »

Simple. The more it shakes your house, the better the sub is....:D

:eek:

lol

McLoki

specd_out wrote: »

what does the wattage have to do with how a subwoofer performs. I have seen some, DSW pro 500 that has 200 watts and then the SPL 800-r has 1000 2000 rating both in th esame price range. why such a difference in wattage

The size of amp needed to power a sub depends on the subs enclosure size. Big subs (especially ported) do not require near as much power.

Smaller subs are often boosted (via an EQ) in the lower frequency ranges to make up for their smaller enclosure sizes. Since increasing a frequency 6db-12db takes a TON of power - the smaller subs often have 1,000 watt amps or more. Since they are trying to overcome the physics required to make deep bass, they run their amps hard and often have passive radiators rather than ports (since there is not room to put a big port in such a small box - it also eliminates any chance of port noise).

Long story short - wattage don't mean a thing as far as how well or not a sub will perform. It is certainly a part of the puzzle, but just amp size is not enough information to determine if a sub is worth a darn or not.

curved

How big is your room?

specd_out

McLoki wrote: »

The size of amp needed to power a sub depends on the subs enclosure size. Big subs (especially ported) do not require near as much power.

Smaller subs are often boosted (via an EQ) in the lower frequency ranges to make up for their smaller enclosure sizes. Since increasing a frequency 6db-12db takes a TON of power - the smaller subs often have 1,000 watt amps or more. Since they are trying to overcome the physics required to make deep bass, they run their amps hard and often have passive radiators rather than ports (since there is not room to put a big port in such a small box - it also eliminates any chance of port noise).

Long story short - wattage don't mean a thing as far as how well or not a sub will perform. It is certainly a part of the puzzle, but just amp size is not enough information to determine if a sub is worth a darn or not.

Thanks that clears alot up on the wattage question i had.

as far as room size its large its a living room with a dining room. that opens to a small hall way and a kitchen. only three real walls the rest is open.

Early B.

specd_out wrote: »

as far as room size its large its a living room with a dining room. that opens to a small hall way and a kitchen. only three real walls the rest is open.

Can you measure this area and let us know?

You'll probably need a very large sub (or two of them) to pressurize this space. Don't consider anything smaller than a 15" sub. In your price range, you may want to consider DIY.

McLoki

If going DIY - I would consider 15's as well. Considering your budget, DIY would be the best way to get the bass you want.

Motzart

Well when it came time for me to upgrade my sub I considered these factors....

Most important:

1 - What did I deem the best for my budget
2 - History of the company
3 - Can it dig deep and not be muddy
4 - Something that could handle HT and Music
5 - Size for my space

Subs are like Camera's IMHO
As a Photographer I'm not real hip on a Camera made by a company who specializes in more than just Camera's.
Ex: Sony...Panasonic...Casio...ect

These mentioned above might be good Camera's to the common joe who just wants to take a photo.
But a real Photographer who wants true quality will go with the mentioned below.

A dedicated Camera company who KNOWS and had made nothing but Camera's for years is gonna give you a true quality Camera.
Ex: Canon...Nikon...Minolta...ect

IMHO many companies that make more than subs (Yamaha for example) should just stick to the electronics end of things.
Many of the receiver companies make speakers and subs but they are geared to the casual listener and not the audiophile.

This is just a personal view and many might not agree.


.

specd_out

well I have narrowed down my choices to three
PSW1000 -350-400
DSW Pro 500 300
Micro1000 400 free shiping

According to the specs the PSW1000 is a better sub but i was just wanting to know other peoples opinon

lightman1

Specs suck. Let your ears tell the truth.