RTi10 as Center Channel Speaker?

mdaudioguy

I've decided to rework my center channel arrangement to accommodate a projection screen. I'm currently using a CSiA4, because the way I had things set up, it fit best in the space behind where the screen would be. Since other constraints are keeping me from going with an acoustically transparent screen, I've decided to lower my center below the screen. Since I've heard the CSiA6 is, for many people, a noticeably better speaker, I figured it would be a good idea to go that route. If I did, I would have to design and build a custom stand.

Then it hit me -- I've also read about the advantages of a matched LCR setup that allows for vertically aligned drivers in the center -- in my case three RTi10's across the front. Does this sound like a good idea? If so, any ideas as to where I might be able to purchase a single RTi10?

comfortablycurt

The RTi10 might be a little bass heavy for a center channel, and not really have enough midrange. Midrange is pretty important for a center channel, because that's the range where most of the dialogue falls into. Personally I'd look into something else. It might work for your tastes though. It would definitely be a loud center channel.

mdaudioguy

comfortablycurt wrote: »

The RTi10 might be a little bass heavy for a center channel, and not really have enough midrange. Midrange is pretty important for a center channel, because that's the range where most of the dialogue falls into. Personally I'd look into something else. It might work for your tastes though. It would definitely be a loud center channel.

How about an RTi8?

comfortablycurt

IMO that would be a better center channel. It has two mid's compared to the one mid on the 10. Plus it doesn't have the bass drivers to overpower dialogue, one of the biggest complaints with HT systems is boomy sounding dialogue. The RTi8 would probably be better.

At that point though you'd basically be getting the same thing as the CSi5. The RTi8 has two 6.5 inch mids and a 1 inch tweeter, which is the same driver configuration as the CSi5. The only thing the CSi5 lacks compared to the RTi8 is the big port on the bottom. It handles 200 watts compared to the 250 watts of the RTi8, and it's frequency response doesn't dig quite as low as the RTi8 does. 45hz compared to 30hz in the 8. That may not really be a bad thing in the center channel though. It all depends on what you prefer though. It would help if you could demo an RTi8 as a center channel.

brody05

I use a pair of RT55i's (one each side of the TV cabinet), nice and low to the ground and angled up slightly, very crisp sounding and both run off the center channel output without issue.

I disagree with avoiding bass on a center channel though, I did have a CS1000p with the active subs in it and it sounded great, deep voiced actors such as sean connery ect were brilliant with it, I have always had thoughts of running a small 8" sub off the center since but haven't the room for it.

Kex

IMHO, having an identical center channel to your front left and right channels is the PERFECT setup. Center channel speakers are a compromise, but NOT perfect. They exist only because most people do not have the room for a third main speaker standing up vertically. The problem is avoiding interference between the tweeter and the drivers. This problem does not exist with vertically oriented speakers, but just laying a vertical speaker on its side does not work, hence the creation of dedicated center speakers. Three absolutely identical front channel speakers will always be BETTER than a matched horizontal center speaker with two vertical main speakers IMO.

Magnetic shielding may be an issue for some that are interested, with some displays, but not LCD, plasma or projection screns though, IIRC, so not in your case.

nm4710

If you can fit an RTi10 without turning your room into a monstrosity it would be ideal. If not, then think about the CSi5. Not all of us agree with comfortablycurt's assessment of the RTi10 lacking midrange and having overpowering bass. I WISH I could set up an RTi10 as my center but it wouldn't work in my room. I DO have a CSi5 and let me tell you that my RTi10s sound a LOT better on vocals - they have much more midrange than my CSi5. I also own a CSi3 (basically same as your A4) and to be honest the CSi5 is a rather subtle improvement...not the night and day difference so many seem to expect.

Best of luck with finding your next center.
NM

Montoya

nm4710 wrote: »

If you can fit an RTi10 without turning your room into a monstrosity it would be ideal. If not, then think about the CSi5. Not all of us agree with comfortablycurt's assessment of the RTi10 lacking midrange and having overpowering bass. I WISH I could set up an RTi10 as my center but it wouldn't work in my room. I DO have a CSi5 and let me tell you that my RTi10s sound a LOT better on vocals - they have much more midrange than my CSi5. I also own a CSi3 (basically same as your A4) and to be honest the CSi5 is a rather subtle improvement...not the night and day difference so many seem to expect.

Best of luck with finding your next center.
NM

I agree with the slight difference in the csi3 vs the csi5 my friend and I did a demo on the two and the two had near identical sound qualites. The only time the csi5 had better results was setting the crossover from 80hz to 60hz but being that my friend and I use 80hz the difference was not worth the upgrade.

Sherardp

No need to build a custom stand, I recommend the Lovan M2 Center Stand. Very nice and the glass is a nice touch. Here are some pics of my center and the front end of the room, I'm using a CSi5 as well. The Lovan gives you the ability to aim the center dead center the listening area and you aim the center just about any angle you want. Spikes are included to raise the glass off the floor.

treitz3

comfortablycurt wrote: »

The RTi10 might be a little bass heavy for a center channel, and not really have enough midrange. .

Mid-range is fine provided you have proper amplification. No need to go down talk a particular speaker repeatedly based upon one's personal experience. Many folks do like the RTi-10's quite well for the mids, particularly the mid-bass punch [key words.....when properly amplified].

That said, for a center channel? Not a good idea IMO.

comfortablycurt

treitz3 wrote: »

Mid-range is fine provided you have proper amplification. No need to go down talk a particular speaker repeatedly based upon one's personal experience. Many folks do like the RTi-10's quite well for the mids, particularly the mid-bass punch [key words.....when properly amplified].

That said, for a center channel? Not a good idea IMO.

That's just my opinion. That's why they make different speakers though. A speaker that lacks midrange in my ears could have too much midrange in someone elses ears. I'm not talking them down by any means, they're still very nice speakers, just not to my preference.

I've never heard the RTi10's in a real quality setup though. Just through a Denon Receiver at one of my local Polk dealers. I'd imagine the midrange would be vastly improved when amplified properly though.

Kex

Sherardp wrote: »

...

The a/c unit looks Japanese, but the rest does not. Is this in San Diego? Ah! ... my fond memories of living in Ota-ku, Tokyo, and all those other places I visited ...

Kex

treitz3 wrote: »

Mid-range is fine provided you have proper amplification. ... Many folks do like the RTi-10's quite well for the mids, particularly the mid-bass punch ...

The biggest kick I got for mid-bass punch was when I added a NAD receiver. It made a much bigger difference than an Emotiva external amplifier, and I even went to the trouble of a blind listening test to verify this. The NAD cured all my mid-range issues instantly. YMMV.

treitz3

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I've never heard the RTi10's in a real quality setup though. Just through a Denon Receiver at one of my local Polk dealers. I'd imagine the midrange would be vastly improved when amplified properly though.

CC, try a Carver M-500t or the same model MKII. I used to love Denon way back in the day but experience has taught me otherwise.

I have moved on from that amplifier [and I tried 5 or more other Carver amplifiers since then on those speakers] and let me tell you, the mids can sound pretty dog-gone sweet. It's all about what you feed the RTi-10's. That is not an opinion, that's a fact.

comfortablycurt

treitz3 wrote: »

CC, try a Carver M-500t or the same model MKII. I used to love Denon way back in the day but experience has taught me otherwise.

I have moved on from that amplifier [and I tried 5 or more other Carver amplifiers since then on those speakers] and let me tell you, the mids can sound pretty dog-gone sweet. It's all about what you feed the RTi-10's. That is not an opinion, that's a fact.

I'll believe that. Carver makes some great equipment. I've never used a Carver home theater amplifier, but I used to have a Carver guitar amp head driving a 4x12 cab...and it was amazing. I still regret selling that amp in some ways, but I think I'll stick with my Mesa Boogie for now...

I'm not downing the RTi10 at all though...It's a great speaker. I just prefer the richer mids in the other RTi towers. The RTi8/RTi A5 do lack the low end punch that their larger brothers have, which to some people is more important. I prefer most of my low end to come out of my sub though personally. Those are just my preferences though.

In a 2ch setup I'd take the RTi10 over the 8 though definitely.

mdaudioguy

Great discussion! Here's the deal - I'll be purchasing an amp, probably around the same time as the center. At this point in time, it looks like I'll go with Emotiva XPA-5, so the amplification will be there. I do have the space for a tower center - room is 18 x 25 with a nice space between two windows for a tower. A 100" projection screen would fit nicely just above the speakers.

Based on the discussion so far, I'm thinking of doing this, so, RTi10 or RTi8? And where would I be able to purchase just one? All I ever see is pairs being offered. Thanks for all the comments & suggestions. I appreciate them all!

comfortablycurt

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Great discussion! Here's the deal - I'll be purchasing an amp, probably around the same time as the center. At this point in time, it looks like I'll go with Emotiva XPA-5, so the amplification will be there. I do have the space for a tower center - room is 18 x 25 with a nice space between two windows for a tower. A 100" projection screen would fit nicely just above the speakers.

Based on the discussion so far, I'm thinking of doing this, so, RTi10 or RTi8? And where would I be able to purchase just one? All I ever see is pairs being offered. Thanks for all the comments & suggestions. I appreciate them all!

I'd check ebay. There are usually single towers for sale on there. Not through Polk Direct, but through other retailers. Be careful who you buy through though. You only get the warranty through authorized dealers if that's an issue for you.

Amazon has the RTi8's sold as a single. They have both black and cherry as well. http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Output-Floorstanding-Loudspeaker/dp/B0000SYA8A/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1229982029&sr=1-9 I didn't see any RTi10's on there though.

Kex

RTi10 sold individually for $350 (with shipping). Only available in black at the moment, it seems. You can buy them from the same store, but through amazon.com, if you prefer.

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=28504
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000TU7IQ/ref=dp_olp_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1229984286&sr=1-1

mdaudioguy

Well, I'm just about ready to order a single RTi8 to replace my CSiA4, which will be completely useless behind the 120" screen I just ordered. My RTi10 fronts are 9' apart, with 2 windows between them. The screen is situated above the fronts and the windows start only about a foot from the floor. A tower center will fit nicely between the 2 windows. The "standard" center would either have to be on a stand (blocking the windows, which I don't like) or down low, about 3' below the screen, which doesn't seem right to me. Any final thoughts before I move forward with this?

comfortablycurt

Sounds like it should work out pretty well as far as placement goes. Let us know how it turns out for ya. Your center channel is definitely gonna have a bit of punch now.

Kex

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Well, I'm just about ready to order a single RTi8 to replace my CSiA4, ...

Sorry, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread again, but is there a reason you decided on the RTi8, instead of a third RTi10, which would be ideal IMO, rather than just second best? Just checking ...

Kex

xcapri79 wrote: »

The RTi8 makes a great center channel. I ran it like that for about a year with RTi8's all around. I think that it would work better than the RTi10 in your case too.

Can you explain why you consider an RTi8 used as a center, paired with front RTi10 L/R speakers, would actually work better than another RTi10?

My understanding of center speaker requirements is that the closer they match the front speakers, the better it is for the soundstage, so I am not understanding why an RTi8 would match two RTi10 better than a third RTi10.

Early B.

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Well, I'm just about ready to order a single RTi8 to replace my CSiA4

No. Get the 10. Trust me on this one.

mdaudioguy

Kex wrote: »

Sorry, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread again, but is there a reason you decided on the RTi8, instead of a third RTi10, which would be ideal IMO, rather than just second best? Just checking ...

A few reasons, actually: I've read about the midrange argument (may or may not be true) and it seems to make sense that the 2 x 6.5" driver configuration would excel in that area, which as I understand, is where much dialogue resides. Interestingly, the RTi8 driver configuration is the same as Polk's larger center in the RTi series - CSiA6/CSi5. Also, single RTi8's are readily available... and more affordable.

Then again, Early B. says get the 10... Hmmm, he does have nearly 8,000 posts here... What to do, what to do?

Early B.

mdaudioguy wrote: »

A few reasons, actually: I've read about the midrange argument (may or may not be true) and it seems to make sense that the 2 x 6.5" driver configuration would excel in that area, which as I understand, is where much dialogue resides. Interestingly, the RTi8 driver configuration is the same as Polk's larger center in the RTi series - CSiA6/CSi5. Also, single RTi8's are readily available... and more affordable.

Then again, Early B. says get the 10... Hmmm, he does have nearly 8,000 posts here... What to do, what to do?

Don't focus solely on dialogue in your decision-making. The center channel does far more than that. It anchors the majority of the sound in HT.

All of the typical MTM-styled center channels, regardless of price, are too wimpy for the job. If you have an opportunity to replace your punk **** center channel with either an 8 or a 10 and you're using 10's as front speakers, then the choice should be obvious. Get the 10, set the center channel to LARGE on your receiver, and prepare to be blown away by the sound.

The unwritten rule of HT is: buy more speaker than you think you need (this is particularly true for subs). The reason is because you want the sonic and visual impact of the sound. The goal of an HT system is to surpass the sound of a movie theater. Movie theaters surround you with a zillion speakers, and don't use wimpy ones.

curved

I say get 1 RTi12 - ultimate center!!!

JR's has them for around $350

nm4710

mdaudioguy,

You've selected good options - the RTi8 and 10 are both very good speakers. I know b/c I have owned both for over a year now. In fact, in said year I've probably swapped them in and out of my setup (7.1 with polk RTi6's as surround backs and FXi3's as surrounds with a CSi5 center). In my experience, there is not a thing that the RTi8's do better than the RTi10s. Not in my room, with my equipment (sony receiver as a pre-amp driving an Emotiva LPA-1 amp). Vocals sound so much better on my RTi10's I can't even fathom why anyone would prefer the 8s.

Now as to the theoretical argument of the RTi8 having better midrange, try to understand this: In the RTi8 the two 6.25" drivers are responsible for a broader frequency range than the single 6.25" driver on the RTi10. This is sub-optimal for both bass and midrange reproduction. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. My personal opinion is that the net effect is less midrange and FAR less bass than the RTi10. I think some folks are fooled into believing the RTi8s have better midrange simply b/c they have far less bass.

In your case, the fact that you already have 2 RTi10s as fronts really makes a third 10 perfect. The closer the front stage is matched the better your surround experience will be. Although I don't have 8000 posts (or 1/2 his knowledge), I agree with EarlyB.

MillerLiteScott

Today I tried out a RTA 8TL and RTA 11T for a center channel. The 8TL was a little wimpy but the 11t was very full sounding and had the low end that my CSi5 was lacking. Don't get me wrong the CSi5 sounds great in my system and is Bi-amp with 2 100w channels of a 5 channel amp, but the 11T just had that little extra on the low end even only using 1 100w channel..

I would love to build a center channel using the parts and pieces of the 11T in a cabinet of the same volume but configured like a center channel with the PR's on the sloped back part. I just don't think it would be worth the effort and I don't know if there would be any lobing(SP) issues using the RTA 11T crossover. Who knows maybe I will build one when I have all my tools out to trim out the house I am building.

Scott

Kex

Early B. wrote: »

... If you have an opportunity to replace your punk **** center channel with either an 8 or a 10 and you're using 10's as front speakers, then the choice should be obvious. Get the 10, set the center channel to LARGE on your receiver, and prepare to be blown away by the sound. ...

This is certainly what I would do!

curved wrote: »

I say get 1 RTi12 - ultimate center!!!

JR's has them for around $350

Curved, you're an ****$!

curved

Kex wrote: »

This is certainly what I would do!



Curved, you're an ****$!

lol.....you know it

mdaudioguy

This is the kind of discussion I was looking for! Ok, now I'm definitely leaning toward the RTi10, although finding a single one might be difficult.

However, that leads me to another question... Set the center to large? I've been following the HT "standard" of setting all speakers to small, and allowing my AVR to manage the bass. I'm still playing with my crossover settings. I've had it anywhere from 60hz to 90hz. I probably did buy more sub than I needed, so I think I'm covered there. How does an AVR manage bass when the fronts are set to small and the center to large?

Also, nm4710, I appreciated your explanation. It seemed to make sense to me. At least I almost completely bought it... However, if the RTi8 were crossed over at, say 80hz, it wouldn't have to handle the bass below, and therefore the dual drivers would only have to handle the midrange... Never mind. Scratch that. Early B says set the center to large. All right, I'm going with the 10. Anyone want a punk **** center?