The DIY Super Center Channel Thread

2

Comments

  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited December 2008
    clearwave wrote: »
    Hi, I'm the owner of CLD, and just thought I would chime in to say thank you for the wonderful review!

    Now, about that sealed enclosure you mention in your post in the quote above. That section is actually not sealed. The partitions should actually have a cutout to make a passage that leads from each woofer section behind the completely sealed midrange chamber. I heavily stuffed that area with poly fill and you can place the crossover there if you want and still have access to it. This adds a few extra liters to the woofer section as well. I just wanted to clarify the construction, just in case anyone else is wondering. Putting the crossover where you did is a smart move though.

    Great build!

    Regards,

    Jed
    Clearwave L. D.


    Jed --

    Thanks for the clarification.

    What types of designs are you working on now?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • clearwave
    clearwave Posts: 17
    edited December 2008
    Early B. wrote: »
    Jed --

    Thanks for the clarification.

    What types of designs are you working on now?

    I'm finishing up my Dayton RS270s, SB Acoustics 5", Vifa XT25 3 way this week. I've been listening to it for awhile now, and it sounds really great for $599 (basic kit with drivers and crossovers). I've got a "matching" MTM using the SB Acoustics 5" and XT25 that should work really well for surrounds. Then of course there is the Dynamic 1S that needs to get finished. I'll use the PE .75ft3 enclosure for that. It'll also make it less of a hassle for people who want to try out one of my designs without having to build enclosures.

    Then there is the custom TMM speaker I'm working on for customer that will use the SB Acoustics 7" drivers and the Seas DXT waveguide tweeter. I'm also going to design a very slim tower using multiple 5-6" drivers for people not wanting a speaker with a huge footprint, but want all the dynamics in a small package. So to say I have a lot to do the next few months would be putting it mildly. The responses I've received about the Dynamic Series are definitely helping me stay very busy as well!

    Jed
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited December 2008
    Nice work guys, I bet it does sound good.I'm guessing you could not buy anything near that performance wise for under $2G's. I agree 100% with you Brad on the importance of having a top notch CC,I recently went from an MTM to a WMTW and it was well worth the effort.

    Adding a pair of 4t's would be sweet.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2008
    GV#27 wrote: »
    Nice work guys, I bet it does sound good.I'm guessing you could not buy anything near that performance wise for under $2G's. I agree 100% with you Brad on the importance of having a top notch CC,I recently went from an MTM to a WMTW and it was well worth the effort.

    Adding a pair of 4t's would be sweet.

    Thanks. I don't really see you being able to find a pair of mains that would compete with Zed's design under $4,000. I have been to many HiFi shops, and when I come home I am happy with my system. After hearing these I want a set;) It's not going to happen for a long time, but I can invite myself over to Brad's house when he builds the mains:D
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Doug_D
    Doug_D Posts: 15
    edited December 2008
    You also wouldn't want to change the baffle width on the 4T's. Maybe you were referring to the part that's bowed out where it curves? But the front baffle should stay 8" wide as that's how the speakers were measured and the crossover was designed.
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  • Doug_D
    Doug_D Posts: 15
    edited December 2008
    Would be a minimum of 4k if you ask me.... Possibly higher even.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited December 2008
    Doug_D wrote: »
    You also wouldn't want to change the baffle width on the 4T's. Maybe you were referring to the part that's bowed out where it curves? But the front baffle should stay 8" wide as that's how the speakers were measured and the crossover was designed.

    I hear ya, and the 4CC center channel was measured the same way, but my TV greatly extends the front baffle.:eek::D:eek:

    Of course, when it comes to speaker design, there's always some arrogant **** out there who thinks he can improve on the original design, no matter how little I, errrr, I meant "they" know about the subject.;)
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Doug_D
    Doug_D Posts: 15
    edited December 2008
    Deeper is always ok :) Mine are like 18" deep 49.5" tall and 8" wide.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited December 2008
    Doug your 4T's look spectacular.
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  • Midnite Mick
    Midnite Mick Posts: 1,591
    edited December 2008
    delete...double post
    Modwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Consonance cd120T
    Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Usher CP 6311

    Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote
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  • Midnite Mick
    Midnite Mick Posts: 1,591
    edited December 2008
    Those are awesome guys. You guys do great work. I built speakers before they definitely did not look that good.

    The only thing I question is whether that vifa tweeter is too laid back and soft for home theatre. Atleast that is what I thought of the lsi15's I used to own.

    Mike
    Modwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Consonance cd120T
    Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Usher CP 6311

    Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote
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  • Doug_D
    Doug_D Posts: 15
    edited December 2008
    I find the XT25 to be very nicely detailed without being harsh at all. I don't think your missing anything with it over other tweeters. I've heard the Dayton RS28-A which is a metal dome tweeter and I find that it doesn't have that sparkle or whatever you want to call it on the top end. The Vifa Ring Radiator certainly has a sparkle and is amazingly good on the top end. Tons of oomph in there honestly great tweeter for anything!
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited December 2008
    Midnite Mick wrote: »
    The only thing I question is whether that vifa tweeter is too laid back and soft for home theatre. Atleast that is what I thought of the lsi15's I used to own.

    Perhaps someone else can chime in, but Vifa makes/made several iterations of the ring radiator tweeter, so the 4T/4CC may not use the same tweeter as the Lsi series.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Doug_D
    Doug_D Posts: 15
    edited December 2008
    That is true the one in the Dynamic series is actually a newer double magnet one. I'm not sure what the LSi's used though. But you can read my previous post haha.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited December 2008
    Oops. I forgot to post pics of the crossover by itself...
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2008
    The LSiC and LSi9 both use a single magnet Vifa, I assume the rest of the LSi line is the same configuration. As for them being too laid back, that's more to do with the crossover design. But overall, they are very smooth sounding tweets.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • ZOOPDOOP22
    ZOOPDOOP22 Posts: 158
    edited December 2008
    fascinates me. I live in an apartment building. If only I had:
    1) The tools
    2) The space
    3) The money
    4) The amps

    I would go for these in a heartbeat.

    Oh what the future holds!!
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  • clearwave
    clearwave Posts: 17
    edited December 2008
    Early B.,

    In your build pictures I noticed there is no recess opening around the back of the midrange cones, rather the hole for the midrange is a straight cut through the baffle. This will "choke" the mids a bit and they may sound a bit more closed in than they could sound. My recommendation is to take a rasp and bevel a 45 degree angle to carve away some of the material in the straight cut opening, to allow the mids to breath more.

    In my build, I have a 2 layered baffle. The first baffle the opening for the midrange is cut the same size as the full diameter of the driver, which is 4 15/15", and then the next layer of the baffle, which is also 3/4" thick, is cut so the driver is flush mounted. The 2 layers thus create enough room around the midrange to allow it to breath. It's not a 45 degree cut like I mention in the paragraph above, but either way is effective.

    Maybe Doug_D can show a picture of what I mean? I made this suggestion to him as well.

    Jed
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited December 2008
    clearwave wrote: »
    This will "choke" the mids a bit and they may sound a bit more closed in than they could sound. My recommendation is to take a rasp and bevel a 45 degree angle to carve away some of the material in the straight cut opening, to allow the mids to breath more.
    Good advice.

    I used a TB W5-704D as the mid in my center and noticed that while it has a nice cast basket it did appear to restrict airflow somewhat.Therefore I chamfered the inner edge to with a 45 degree router bit.It's too late to use the router on Early's but maybe a Dremel with a heavy grit sanding wheel would work.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited December 2008
    Like this.
    c1.JPG 125.1K
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  • Doug_D
    Doug_D Posts: 15
    edited December 2008
    I actually used a jig saw angled at 45 degrees to do mine. I touched it up a bit with a rasp though.

    P1010667.jpg
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2008
    Guys the amount the cones move will not impede any sort of airflow from the mids. I don't know what the XO points are(I would like to), but I know the cones are barely moving;)
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Doug_D
    Doug_D Posts: 15
    edited December 2008
    It's more the rear soundwave doesn't have anywhere to go. It should be going into the back where the acoustic foam is so that it absorbs it. If the cabinet is block it in then it's probably bouncing and radiating right back into the mid which can cause issues. And regardless the mids probably move more air then you'd think :)
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited December 2008
    clearwave wrote: »
    Early B.,

    In your build pictures I noticed there is no recess opening around the back of the midrange cones, rather the hole for the midrange is a straight cut through the baffle. This will "choke" the mids a bit and they may sound a bit more closed in than they could sound. My recommendation is to take a rasp and bevel a 45 degree angle to carve away some of the material in the straight cut opening, to allow the mids to breath more.

    In my build, I have a 2 layered baffle. The first baffle the opening for the midrange is cut the same size as the full diameter of the driver, which is 4 15/15", and then the next layer of the baffle, which is also 3/4" thick, is cut so the driver is flush mounted. The 2 layers thus create enough room around the midrange to allow it to breath. It's not a 45 degree cut like I mention in the paragraph above, but either way is effective.

    Maybe Doug_D can show a picture of what I mean? I made this suggestion to him as well.

    Jed


    Thanks for looking out. Since I have a Dremel, I'll take GV's advice and chamfer the inner edges of the midrange drivers.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • clearwave
    clearwave Posts: 17
    edited December 2008
    If there is anyone sitting on the fence (ready to jump on a deal), I'm running a free shipping special on the kits through Dec 25.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited December 2008
    clearwave wrote: »
    If there is anyone sitting on the fence (ready to jump on a deal), I'm running a free shipping special on the kits through Dec 25.

    Get off the 'effing fence, you wussies. Get yourself some manly speakers. Go big or get another hobby -- may I suggest macrame? It's good for girlymen.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited December 2008
    One thing that sorta has me on the fence (aside from potential lethal backlash from my wife if I spend more money) is how well will these match up with RTi12's as a center? I have a CSiA6 now. Will it be timbre matched/compatible?

    How much does the final product weigh?

    I have plenty of spce for it in my current entertainment center, and will likely place it on a shelf of sorts below the screen in my ded. HT (when it gets done).

    Man doesn't that CSiA6 look small up there?

    CIMG6291.jpg (this is an older pic, stuffs has changed ;))
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2008
    mmadden28 wrote: »
    One thing that sorta has me on the fence (aside from potential lethal backlash from my wife if I spend more money) is how well will these match up with RTi12's as a center? I have a CSiA6 now. Will it be timbre matched/compatible?

    How much does the final product weigh?

    I have plenty of spce for it in my current entertainment center, and will likely place it on a shelf of sorts below the screen in my ded. HT (when it gets done).

    Man doesn't that CSiA6 look small up there?
    It would probably come closer to timbre matching those 9's.
    Early B. wrote: »
    Get off the 'effing fence, you wussies. Get yourself some manly speakers. Go big or get another hobby -- may I suggest macrame? It's good for girlymen.
    So are you replacing your mains?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Doug_D
    Doug_D Posts: 15
    edited December 2008
    They would probably work ok with your Polks although after hearing the center I must warn you there may be a very real chance you're going to want to upgrade your mains lol :)
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited December 2008
    Doug_D wrote: »
    They would probably work ok with your Polks although after hearing the center I must warn you there may be a very real chance you're going to want to upgrade your mains lol :)

    Upgrade? Who me? Nah-it'll never happen :rolleyes:;)
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
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