SDA 2.3 & 200 watt mono block ?

2»

Comments

  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,104
    edited December 2008
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    The mono block is grounded thru the plugin.

    Bill
    :)




    The question is more about how the electricity flows through the speakers; and if the right channel sends energy to the left channel, and the left channel sends energy to the right channel through the SPEAKER interconnect cable, will that energy be "orphaned" at the opposite channel, causing damage.

    When someone talks about "differential" topology, I tend to think of a bridged amp. Ask Outlaw if the amp is bridged. If it is, you can use 'em, but you CANNOT use the standard speaker interconnect cable; and you'll lose the SDA effect. If you use or make a special speaker interconnect cable, things may be OK
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ShinAce
    ShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited December 2008
    Schurkey wrote: »
    :)




    The question is more about how the electricity flows through the speakers; and if the right channel sends energy to the left channel, and the left channel sends energy to the right channel through the SPEAKER interconnect cable, will that energy be "orphaned" at the opposite channel, causing damage.

    When someone talks about "differential" topology, I tend to think of a bridged amp. Ask Outlaw if the amp is bridged. If it is, you can use 'em, but you CANNOT use the standard speaker interconnect cable; and you'll lose the SDA effect. If you use or make a special speaker interconnect cable, things may be OK

    I had given up trying to guide the thread since no one seemed to understand my questions. Thank you for trying to help.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,213
    edited December 2008
    ShinAce wrote: »
    I had given up trying to guide the thread since no one seemed to understand my questions. Thank you for trying to help.

    I understood your question perfectly, I don't have the answer as far as Outlaw is concerned. I suggested you or the OP use the search function because it believe it has been discussed before.

    Since they are mono's (bridged or not) they can't be used unless the terminals can be strapped.

    One thing the OP can do is strap the terminals (DONOT apply power) and use a DVM to measure the speaker outputs to determine if this method would be compatible with those particular amps.

    To the OP there are hundreds and hundreds of posts about common ground issues with amps that explain the issue and offer several solutions. Get your search on.............if you are really that concerned.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    Love you guys! I posted a problem and you all are working it like an old hound worrying a bone.

    Club Polk is the Best, Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    THANX for all the input guys - I am leaving the house now to go PU the SDA SRS 2.3's. Got him down to 9 so I'm ok with that. Don't know when another set will come up locally and if it happened on ebay nationally then you have to contend with how to get them. So I figure that it is samey same for the price.

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Fatbrando
    Fatbrando Posts: 275
    edited December 2008
    Wow only 9? What a REASONABLE price for a great pair of speakers! Congrats! Keep us posted on how they ROCK! Keep on Polkin'...

    FB
    Harman Kardon HK 3490
    Stanton STR8-100
    Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL (Proud newbie owner!)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited December 2008
    Congrats Bill, I'm sure you'll love them. Get the Outlaw question settled before you try to hook them up with the IC in place.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    Ron Temple wrote: »
    Congrats Bill, I'm sure you'll love them. Get the Outlaw question settled before you try to hook them up with the IC in place.

    The Polk manual that came with them said "if you are not sure if your amplifiers are common ground, then run a wire from first amp neg spreaker output to the second amp neg speaker output to conect them for common ground, or get the AI-1c interconnect cable from Polk". The only issue is to complete a common ground circuit between both amps. They are grounded thru the plugin on the power cord. I will call Outlaw again and ask this question.

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited December 2008
    Pics Bill, pics !
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    Later after I get it all set up!

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,213
    edited December 2008
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    tthen run a wire from first amp neg spreaker output to the second amp neg speaker output to conect them for common ground, I will call Outlaw again and ask this question.
    Bill

    DO NOT do what the manual says until you check with Outlaw. That manual was written a long time ago and some amps of today are much different than they were when the manual was written.

    Using a DVM as I suggested before is also a fool proof way to discovering. Almost all mono bloc amps CAN NOT be used unless one of two things can be done: 1) make the amps common ground by strapping the neg speaker terminals together (always check with the amp manufacturer) 2) having the ability for your SDA's to use the AI-1 interconnect.

    DO NOT hook your mono's up as they are you could damage the amps or the speakers or both.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,739
    edited December 2008
    They are grounded thru the plugin on the power cord.

    Man, you're just not getting this. As mono blocks there is NO common ground between the two separate chassis, period.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    F1nut wrote: »
    Man, you're just not getting this. As mono blocks there is NO common ground between the two separate chassis, period.

    I'm NOT using the interconnect and the speakers are setup as normal speakers. No issues with that. Outlaw said that the M2200 mono block is common ground thru the plugin (3 prong plugin). They will not commit to strapping as they said they never heard of it and don't know anything about Polk SDA's. The manual does state that common ground amps can be strapped via the negitive terminals. I have not done this, just running the SDA's as common speakers. Even as regular speakers the audio is GREAT! I have to find a AI-1c cable or have one made OR get a new amp that is 2 channel. Which is cheaper for me?

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited December 2008
    It was either H9 or Ben that suggested you sell the monos and pickup a used 2 channel. You'd actually come out ahead if you went with an Adcom GFA 555 or 555II, you're in Carver country, so you might find a nice M1.5, 4.0 or TFM 35 and up at a reasonable price. Lots of love for Parasound and Sunfire too. The thing about the big boys and your large room...you'll probably love them more with as much power as you can find. Cathy's 200wpc rule is probably about minimum, expecially if you like them loud (I know you do ;))

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    Ron Temple wrote: »
    It was either H9 or Ben that suggested you sell the monos and pickup a used 2 channel. You'd actually come out ahead if you went with an Adcom GFA 555 or 555II, you're in Carver country, so you might find a nice M1.5, 4.0 or TFM 35 and up at a reasonable price. Lots of love for Parasound and Sunfire too. The thing about the big boys and your large room...you'll probably love them more with as much power as you can find. Cathy's 200wpc rule is probably about minimum, expecially if you like them loud (I know you do ;))

    Yes, I probably do that. I can use the mono's for the L & R surrounds. The all I would have are the rear surrounds hooked to the Pio '94 and then I would get tru 140 watts thru them. I'll be patient and save up for the amp that I need.

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,739
    edited December 2008
    I'm NOT using the interconnect and the speakers are setup as normal speakers. No issues with that.

    Ok, that you can do without worry. However, you are only running basically half of each speaker that way.
    Outlaw said that the M2200 mono block is common ground thru the plugin (3 prong plugin).

    They don't know wtf they are talking about. In reality, each amp is grounded to the electrial circuit in your house via the 3 prong plug, but that does not make them common ground amps.
    I have to find a AI-1c cable or have one made OR get a new amp that is 2 channel. Which is cheaper for me?

    You can make an AI-1 for a couple of hundred or so. However, I agree with Ron in that replacing the Outlaw's with a better amp would net you much better sound.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    F1nut wrote: »
    Ok, that you can do without worry. However, you are only running basically half of each speaker that way.



    They don't know wtf they are talking about. In reality, each amp is grounded to the electrial circuit in your house via the 3 prong plug, but that does not make them common ground amps.



    You can make an AI-1 for a couple of hundred or so. However, I agree with Ron in that replacing the Outlaw's with a better amp would net you much better sound.

    All the drivers are on except for the donuts when playing. I can feel the vibration thru the outside rubber and the bass works. What drivers don't work when playing as normal speakers.

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
    edited December 2008
    The dimensional drivers will not be working. They should be the two middle drivers on the outside of the speaker. Those are the drivers that give you the SDA experience.

    Scott
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited December 2008
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    All the drivers are on except for the donuts when playing. I can feel the vibration thru the outside rubber and the bass works. What drivers don't work when playing as normal speakers.

    Bill

    Since SDA's are sealed boxes, movement of any one of the drivers or the passive radiator will cause movement in the other drivers. The diminsional drivers are not energized when the SDA interconnect cable is removed. Therefore, any movement of the dimensional drivers with the SDA cable disconnected is due to acoustic coupling with the stereo drivers via the air trapped in the cabinet.

    The 2.3 donut drivers don't move or don't appear to move as much due to their added mass.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Since SDA's are sealed boxes, movement of any one of the drivers or the passive radiator will cause movement in the other drivers. The diminsional drivers are not energized when the SDA interconnect cable is removed. Therefore, any movement of the dimensional drivers with the SDA cable disconnected is due to acoustic coupling with the stereo drivers via the air trapped in the cabinet.

    The 2.3 donut drivers don't move or don't appear to move as much due to their added mass.

    Question: Is there any info on the AI-1c cable, like a doc or diagram?

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
    edited December 2008
    Here you go.http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26698&d=1186346846

    Many of us have used the Avel transformer which if you search in the Vintage category and DIY category you will find an abundance of info on this version of the AI-1 cable.
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    Another Question: I can use the SDA interconnect with my Pioneer '94 reciever (140 wpc) can't I?

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2008
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    Another Question: I can use the SDA interconnect with my Pioneer '94 reciever (140 wpc) can't I?

    Bill

    Most likely, but you really need a better amp.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Most likely, but you really need a better amp.
    Ben

    Hooked the SDA 2.3 with Pio '94 and plugged in the interconnect cable. NICE!!!! Put the two mono blocks on the side surrounds and that freed up the Pio output to the mains. Let's face it, no reciever lives up to it's stated wpc unless it is running in two channel. It works for now until I can get a better amp setup or an AI-1c cable.

    Thanx for all the help and you are a great bunch of guys, Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited December 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Most likely, but you really need a better amp.
    Ben
    Definitely try it, just to hear the difference, but I wouldn't push too hard. I think you're a candidate for that Carver M1.0t mk2 of Rich's. If it's the common ground version... ~ 500watts at 4 ohms :eek:.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited December 2008
    Ron Temple wrote: »
    Definitely try it, just to hear the difference, but I wouldn't push too hard. I think you're a candidate for that Carver M1.0t mk2 of Rich's. If it's the common ground version... ~ 500watts at 4 ohms :eek:.

    Just how many ohms is the SDA SRS 2.3? The manual says 6 ohms.

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited December 2008
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    I will call Outlaw again and ask this question.
    Ask them if the amp has a bridged output stage ,thus making the negative speaker terminal hot,or is the negative terminal at ground potential (connected to power supply ground).If it has a bridged output its not common ground.


    If you have a multimeter and the amp unplugged from the wall,you could check the resistance between the ground pin on the AC cord and the negative speaker terminal.If the resistance is between 0-100 ohm's then its common ground.Also if the resistance between the ground (outer part)of the RCA input connector and the negative speaker terminal is near zero then its common ground.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • PolkClyde
    PolkClyde Posts: 662
    edited December 2008
    wow I'm Blessed......Hello everyone.. I have had my Carver mono blocks for over 17 years and The 1.2's a little longer and guess what? I have never had a problem with them.well something did go wrong with the damping pot. what ever that is after I had that one repaired they both work fine never had any more problems out of them since.I didn't know anything about common ground Therefore I was blessed not to damage them any further.the out put was lower then the other.I have the nagatives connected now.Thanks to Reeltrouble1. I think most of you guys don't like adding any thing to the signal path but I just connected the carver C-9 and it sound good to my ears... The Carver C-9 Rocks with the 1.2's to my ears anyway. I'm in a house now I can listen to my 1.2's again now I'm happy again.
    PolkAudioClyde
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,739
    edited December 2008
    AI-1c

    FYI, it's called the AI-1. There is no "c" after.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited December 2008
    PolkClyde wrote: »
    wow I'm Blessed......Hello everyone.. I have had my Carver mono blocks for over 17 years and The 1.2's a little longer and guess what? I have never had a problem with them.well something did go wrong with the damping pot. what ever that is after I had that one repaired they both work fine never had any more problems out of them since.I didn't know anything about common ground Therefore I was blessed not to damage them any further.the out put was lower then the other.I have the nagatives connected now.Thanks to Reeltrouble1. I think most of you guys don't like adding any thing to the signal path but I just connected the carver C-9 and it sound good to my ears... The Carver C-9 Rocks with the 1.2's to my ears anyway. I'm in a house now I can listen to my 1.2's again now I'm happy again.

    P Clyde, I'm curious, you have the IC cable between your speakers AND are running a C-9 Sonic Holography too?? I always thought it was an either/or situation due to the two (SDA effect& S.Holo. effect) basically creating the same sound, but by different means. Also SH requires toe-in and SDA say's no way!! I've never turned on the SH with SDAs, I just figured it would sound weird, but you seem to like it ! WTF, I'll give it a try!:DGeoff~~ Your Silvers 7s or 9s??
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter