The Bass Brace
schwarcw
Posts: 7,341
I'm interested in hearing people's opinions on the effectiveness of the bass brace. Polk offers the bass brace as an alternative to spikes. Since the 2.3's and 1.2's weigh 140 to 180 lbs, spikes are difficult (if not hazardous to use). How do you easily move your speaker.
My ground floor is concrete, and my rear wall is concrete. the Bass brace is the better alternative to me. But I'm not sure the it provides a noticeable reduction in cabinet resonance.
I was kicking around the idea of making a better brace. Maybe adding a 12" X 12" (arbitrary size) wood or metal plate reinforecement onto the rear of the cabinet. Screw the reinforcement plate into the rear of the speaker cabinent (seal if necessary) at several locations, AND increase the size of the all thread brace from the 5/16" to 5/8" or larger. Use large flat washers between the oversize wingnut and the new plate. I would install larger (5/8" or larger lead anchors into the cinder black wall behind my SDA's. My thoughts are the additional reinforcement and anchoring would add additional resonance reduction.
Any thoughts from the DIY speaker builders here?
Regards,
My ground floor is concrete, and my rear wall is concrete. the Bass brace is the better alternative to me. But I'm not sure the it provides a noticeable reduction in cabinet resonance.
I was kicking around the idea of making a better brace. Maybe adding a 12" X 12" (arbitrary size) wood or metal plate reinforecement onto the rear of the cabinet. Screw the reinforcement plate into the rear of the speaker cabinent (seal if necessary) at several locations, AND increase the size of the all thread brace from the 5/16" to 5/8" or larger. Use large flat washers between the oversize wingnut and the new plate. I would install larger (5/8" or larger lead anchors into the cinder black wall behind my SDA's. My thoughts are the additional reinforcement and anchoring would add additional resonance reduction.
Any thoughts from the DIY speaker builders here?
Regards,
Carl
Post edited by schwarcw on
Comments
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You could use 1" dowels inside. They offer reinforcement without taking up much displacement."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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My thoughts on the base brace are that it's a cheesy set up at best. I didn't like the idea of spikes messing up my floor either. The base brace does make a noticable difference though even to my aging ears. Here's what I did. Placed my 2.3s on top of a pair of klh 12's with a spacer on top of the polks. I had to jack the ceiling up slightly and when I released the pressure from the jack the ceiling put just the right amount of pressure on the polks. They are rock solid and you cannot move them unless you jack the ceiling up slightly to release the pressure. I also find my 2.3s image much better now that I have them up off the floor. Apparently the big polks sound best when you're sitting on a couch when they're placed on the floor. One thing I don't do is sit on a couch and listen.
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Ok then here's the pics. I hope this works. These polks are the 2.3s with the donut drivers. I'm running them bi-amped with a 350 watt carver class t amp for the highs and a 500 watt qsc pro amp for bottoms. I was thinking they needed a recap till I moved them up on top of the klh 12's. I got lucky on the combo of amps driving them. I honestly don't think they can sound any better and I'm certainly not lacking for power. The klh 12's are hooked up to an 85 watt all tube set up but the polks are the ones that get 99% of the playing time.
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When I read your first post I thought you were joking.......now, I wish you were.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
When I read your first post I thought you were joking.......now, I wish you were.
Joking about what? Doesn't everyone jack up their ceiling to fit their speakers in:D? No joke here; those polks are rock solid stable much more so than the flimsy bass brace allowed and they sound much better now that the tweets are at ear level. -
Wow! I didn't see that coming! If it works, why not.
Motorstereo, is that a MacIntosh MX-110 in your rack?Carl -
Wow! I didn't see that coming! If it works, why not.
Motorstereo, is that a MacIntosh MX-110 in your rack?
Hey good eyes. Yes that's a mx110 that's been restored. I drive my tube mono blocks with it. Very nice sounding pre and it's too bad I don't use it more. -
Funny you should ask that carl. Guess what i found in the curb last week?SRT For Life; SDA Forever!
The SRT SEISMIC System:
Four main satellite speakers, six powered subs, two dedicated for LFE channel, two center speakers for over/under screen placement and three Control Centers. Amaze your friends, terrorize your neighbors, seize the audio bragging rights for your state. Go ahead, buy it; you only go around once. -
Same here, that's why I asked for pictures!
You really thought I was kidding? I should've taken a pic of the old refrigerator that I mounted in an window opening which I turned into a very nice album storage unit. I'm not kidding;) -
I'm pretty sure everyone thought you were kidding. I sure did."The secret of happiness is freedom. The secret of freedom is courage." Thucydides
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He must listen standing up.
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
He still doesn't top my room for worst SRS listening environment.
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Carl,
I think the bass brace was an afterthought by lawyers. Nobody wants a 1.2 falling over and killing someone. As you know, I run that risk daily...no bass brace and no spikes on the 1.2's. They sound pretty good to me as is.
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motorstereo wrote: »Joking about what? Doesn't everyone jack up their ceiling to fit their speakers in:D? No joke here; those polks are rock solid stable much more so than the flimsy bass brace allowed and they sound much better now that the tweets are at ear level.
Tweets at ear level? Are you 8 ft. tall?:eek: -
Carl, I have a concrete floor and I use MYE Sound brass points on my 1.2 TLs. You heard the bass. I don't think anything short of room treatments will improve what we heard.
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I saw something in the Mapleshade Records catalog that might be of interest.
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/speakerstands_hub.php
They are pricey but you could probably make something for much less.Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
Carl,
I think the bass brace was an afterthought by lawyers. Nobody wants a 1.2 falling over and killing someone. As you know, I run that risk daily...no bass brace and no spikes on the 1.2's. They sound pretty good to me as is.
Late in the full-size model's life, Polk stated that a set of extra-deep mounting feet/legs were to be used unless the bass brace was in place. Sounds lawyer-ish, to me. My early 1.2TLs carried no such mention. -
Number 5 is alive!I saw something in the Mapleshade Records catalog that might be of interest.
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/speakerstands_hub.php
They are pricey but you could probably make something for much less.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091949/
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
motorstereo wrote: »Here's what I did. Placed my 2.3s on top of a pair of klh 12's with a spacer on top of the polks. I had to jack the ceiling up slightly and when I released the pressure from the jack the ceiling put just the right amount of pressure on the polks.
You had no concern about stress fractures and stress deformities in the speaker cabinets?Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Tweets at ear level? Are you 8 ft. tall?:eek:
Most lucky folk has the option of sitting on a couch while listening to their big sda's. That puts the tweets at about ear level. My listening is done either standing up or sitting in a tall swivel stool. That puts the tweets at ear level and eliminates the hole in center of the imaging I was experiencing when they were on the floor. -
DarqueKnight wrote: »You had no concern about stress fractures and stress deformities in the speaker cabinets?
I sure do have concerns about that. That's why there's just enough downward pressure to hold them in place. I'm not using them as structural reinforcement for the building. An educated guess would be about 50 lbs of pressure. To me it's pretty good coupling and it does no doubt work better than that flimsy bass brace. The klh 12's on the bottom have very robust build quality and I bet you could park a car on top of them (no I'm not going to try it). They do support a lot weight with the polks on top and pressure from the ceiling as well. They've made it through the summer with no ill effects so I'd assume that everything is fine structure wise. Sorry; I seemed to have ruffled lots of feathers with my unconventional approach and solution to the flimsy bass brace problem. Your compendium has been a great help to me in getting my sda's set up and working properly to I might add. What a great resource. -
I don't think there were any ruffled feathers, just curiosity about your unconventional placement and bracing approach.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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DarqueKnight wrote: »I don't think there were any ruffled feathers, just curiosity about your unconventional placement and bracing approach.
I just thought it was strange that some folk thought I was "joking". I certainly didn't mean to ruffle feathers by thinking outside the normal venue. Another added benefit I forgot to mention of "coupling" the floor to the ceiling is that there's greatly reduced feedback to the tt. Unless I play the polks stupid loud with the loudness on there's almost no feedback. Now I don't even use the loudness circuit anymore except for an occasional reference point. When I had just the bass brace I had to be very careful of feedback issues. In all honesty I can't think of any area that didn't impove with the polks being set up like that. I'm not kidding and I certainly wouldn't want to encourage anyone else to try it.:D -
SDA's as a house brace, I'll have to remember that one for when I go insane.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
Still doesn't beat the guy who had Martin Logan Odysseys suspended from his ceiling with rope as rear surrounds.
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SDA's as a house brace, I'll have to remember that one for when I go insane.
madmax
I guess you've never tried something uncoventional and had better than expected results. My sda's aren't a "house brace". They're certainly not in my house either (see the motorcycle). I'm using the ceiling to brace the sda's not the other way around. Believe me; I had reservations about my own sanity while hoisting those 155lb speakers up there by myself.;) -
I certainly wouldn't want to encourage anyone else to try it.
Take the man at his word, folks.
Time to move on........Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Take the man at his word, folks.
Time to move on........
You got that right. I'm done justifying my actions and headed elsewhere. To the original poster good luck on your solution. For goodness sakes don't think about stacking those polks and posting here about it. I know I wish I hadn't:eek: -
You had to have realized that what you are doing isn't going to work for 99.99% of the other folks.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You had to have realized that what you are doing isn't going to work for 99.99% of the other folks.
Of course I knew it wouldn't work for everyone. Does anything? Nice to know that I'm in the one tenth of one percent catagory. I happen to have way too many speakers and a stack seems like such a natural place to keep them out of harms way. I know you don't believe this but the klh 12's easily outshined the 2.3s when I had the 2.3s as the bottoms. Several qualified listeners agreed and I just couldn't have that. I swapped placement and now things are like they should be. Isn't it all about speaker placement with these polks? I also didn't think it was that abnormal to stack speakers allbeit the stack is pretty tall; and then use the tallness to an advantage. You don't have to worry; I won't be offering advice here ever again.
