New Receiver sounds broken...

Fatbrando

Hi guys,

So I got the HK 3490 and it's a beaut, but I'm having sonic buyers remorse. I think a channel has gone out on it. I swear I can't hear things I know exist in songs I've listened to for years. I thought at first, I was just hearing new things because of the upgrade. Then as I started to listen to things I'm extremely familiar with like the Beatles, Zeppelin, Stones, Who, Etc...it sounds like an entire channel is missing.

So I switched speakers. I switched speakers around. I switched inputs. I switched cables. I switched from Speaker 1 to Speaker 2. I listened back and forth from the receiver to my computer speakers.

And all I can come up with is, I don't hear lead melody on half of what I'm listening to. All I hear is the accent and emphatic backing notes or harmonies and not the chunka chunk or badaboom that's been there since I can remember when.

Is there a test I can run? I have been researching the forums for audio tests and haven't found anything.

I've already put a email and call into the guy I bought it from and I think he'll do the right thing, but I want to be sure before I deal with him or the warranty and was hoping you guys might have some magical test to see what the problem is...

Warmest Regards,

FB

TNRabbit

What you describe sounds like the - side of the speaker inputs are tied together. I've done this as an experiment years ago for surround effect & that's exactly what it sounds like.

danger boy

does your HK receiver have internal set up tones? if so run that and it will send white noise to each channel one at a time.. and you'll know right away if one of the channels is out.

what you are explaining more sounds like something is out on one of your speakers.. possibly a tweeter? If your music is now missing something from it.. i would think it would be a speaker problem.

HB27

Make sure you're in the right mode. Play around with the controls. These have a virtual surround mode and a couple of others built in that may not be correct for your system. ALso check the muting.
Good luck,
Harry

Fatbrando

Disregard. My speakers were out of phase....

sorry bout that!


FB


Please delete this thread...

Fatbrando

Okay so I retract my retraction...

The Receiver is not working properly. I had another set of ears give it a listen. We switched from my AVR130 to the HK3490 and back. The difference is night and day. At only 45 wpc the AVr130 blows the other right out of the water.

I've arranged to have it replaced with a factory direct 'New' one tomorrow. I'm a little trepidatious that this Latest and Greatest piece of equipment is gonna let me down. Anyone out there think my suspicions might be unwarranted? How could a 5.1 amp with 45wpc even compete with a dedicated 2 channel 120wpc amp? At the very least, the HK 3490 should sound the same, right...?

I have faith, I was sold a faulty piece of equipment and will satisfied with it's replacement.

The distortion is the same, but with double the watts, there should be considerable sonic differences, correct?

HB27

Not necessarily. Sadly too many play the numbers game thinking more is better. Rating systems have not been consistent at best. Take an old 35 wpc silver face from the early '80s and it will perform side by side with many 100wpc-140wpc receivers of today. There's lots of variables to this wide ranging statement but I see a lot of 100wpc "newer" receivers that have no drive or quality sound to them. Almost all of todays receivers can not keep up with an old Sansui 55-80wpc from the late '70s-early '80s. It can take thousands of dollars to compete on an even playing field. On the other hand, they're only 2ch rigs and limited in application. WPC has been rated differently for advertising purposes or sales. Don't get too hung up on the numbers.
Still, it sounds like you may have a "lemon" or are just missing some little detail.
Harry

fossy

If you haven't done so ---- might want to try doing a processor reset -- refer to manual

Ricardo

Something similar happened to me once; some CD's were missing some instruments, vocals didn't sound right, everything sounded different than what I remembered.
I had the SACD player set to multichannel; it was then that I realized that only SACD's sounded wrong.

mmadden28

+1 ^^^ Same here-I had my SACD player set to multichannel on a 2 channel rig. Some of the missing sounds were being sent to speakers that didn't exist in my system, hence the loss of some of the sounds.

Although it doesn't seem to be so in your case, ince you have your old reciever to compare and its working fine.
Hmm, hope its just a bum receiver.

nikolas812

Fatbrando wrote: »

Okay so I retract my retraction...

The Receiver is not working properly. I had another set of ears give it a listen. We switched from my AVR130 to the HK3490 and back. The difference is night and day. At only 45 wpc the AVr130 blows the other right out of the water.

I've arranged to have it replaced with a factory direct 'New' one tomorrow. I'm a little trepidatious that this Latest and Greatest piece of equipment is gonna let me down. Anyone out there think my suspicions might be unwarranted? How could a 5.1 amp with 45wpc even compete with a dedicated 2 channel 120wpc amp? At the very least, the HK 3490 should sound the same, right...?

I have faith, I was sold a faulty piece of equipment and will satisfied with it's replacement.

The distortion is the same, but with double the watts, there should be considerable sonic differences, correct?

Dude. Get a new one. It has to be bad.

My 3490 is a Beast!!! Last night I even tried it bi wired with my LSi9's and it was stunning. The lights were dimming so much I thought I was going to to have to call the power company to see if they could turn up the juice.:D

Get a new one and report back. It ought to blow you 5.1 channel receiver out of the water IMO...

This is why I always buy new from a authorized dealer if I can. Peace of mind.....




Nick

Kex

Fatbrando wrote: »

... The Receiver is not working properly. I had another set of ears give it a listen. We switched from my AVR130 to the HK3490 and back. The difference is night and day. At only 45 wpc the AVr130 blows the other right out of the water ...

I'm not surprised about the good performance of the AVR130, since I had a similar experience when I compared entry level seperates, rated at 125w/ch, to the h/k AVR147, rated at 40w/ch. That just means that the AVR is doing what is should, and the two channel unit does not seem to be at this point. I can't imagine that the output ratings on the 3490 are any less conservative than on the 130 (and Nick is using harder to drive 4 ohm speakers) so I am confident you will eventually figure out what is going wrong.

Have you tried measuring your usual listening levels with a SPL yet? As HB27 pointed out, too many people play the numbers game. This article gives some explanation, while you're waiting for the replacement unit to arrive: http://www.soundstage.com/gettingtechnical/gettingtechnical200503.htm

Fatbrando

Got the replacement and it seems to be working how it should. Upon first audition, it sounds good. Much stronger and fuller than the one I returned. I'll keep you posted.

BTW- Nikolas812 - how loud do you turn your amp up? Please give specific numbers. Thanks!

nikolas812

Fatbrando wrote: »

Got the replacement and it seems to be working how it should. Upon first audition, it sounds good. Much stronger and fuller than the one I returned. I'll keep you posted.

BTW- Nikolas812 - how loud do you turn your amp up? Please give specific numbers. Thanks!

0 is 85db reference level on my system... And thats about all I can handle. At that level the SPL meter is showing peaks close to 110db on certain music.:D

-10 would be 75db just for reference.

This is all subjective though. Everything plays a factor. Speakers and the room are two major ones that come to mind.

So just because my system works at these numbers doesn't mean yours will. So take it for what its worth....


Let us know how its going.


Nick

madmax

Fatbrando wrote: »

Hi guys,

And all I can come up with is, I don't hear lead melody on half of what I'm listening to. All I hear is the accent and emphatic backing notes or harmonies and not the chunka chunk or badaboom that's been there since I can remember when.

Is there a test I can run? I have been researching the forums for audio tests and haven't found anything.

FB

This reply is a little late but it might help your seller. You get this effect by having the grounds of the speakers hooked together but not hooked to the actual ground in the receiver. Chances are you have a cold solder joint where the speaker grounds actually hook to the receiver ground. So what is happening is you go from the front left + lead through to the other speaker and out to the right + lead. You get the difference between the L and R speaker.

To test if this is happening just connect one speaker at a time, test then disconnect. At least two of the speaker channels will appear to not be working at all unless some of the other speakers are hooked up at the same time.

Fatbrando

Madmax thank alot! I'll let Harman Kardon figure that one out when they get it back at their factory. Nikolas812 thank you too for the info, I take it with a grain of salt. I guess my real question is do you find any fatigue or distortion at higher volumes? I wouldn't even begin to approach -10db yet. I need a pair of SDA's to push it that hard and by then I hope to have a big ole fat amp (yamaha M-2) juicing them anyways...

Happy with my H/K. Silky smooth. Yet there is a difference in the soundstage. Which is a plus. I'm hearing more and more. I can only imagine what you guys hear on those big daddy stereos. SRT's and such, powered by ridiculo-wattage pre-pre-amp-amp-mono-mono-mondo Monolithical Monstrosities that I can only drool over.....?!?!?!?!?

best,

FB

P.S. If I didn't mention you specifically, thank you and know I'm referencing this thread for more info and knowledge. I'm just a little slow on the technical stuff.....Ciao!!!

nikolas812

At 0 85db

No fatigue.

No distortion....

Just clean loud silky smooth music.:D




Nick

nikolas812

Just remember. Take my last post with a grain of salt.

Every system is different. You could be hitting reference levels by the time you get to -25db on your receiver. You won't know for sure until you get a some sort of calibration disc and a SPL meter.


I would hate to see you damage your speakers thinking you should be able to turn the receiver up to 0 because I can...





Nick

ben62670

Is this the girl scouts. I can hit 120db very clean. Come on guys:)

Fatbrando

Don't wanna blow out my 100wpc Klipsch's yet. At least not until I got a line on MY SDA's that aren't going for a thousand bucks....

girl scouts....LOL!

More like brownies...!

nikolas812

ben62670 wrote: »

Is this the girl scouts. I can hit 120db very clean. Come on guys:)

With a bookshelf speaker??


Cause thats all I am using and its putting out some immpressive numbers IMO.



Nick

Kex

ben62670 wrote: »

Is this the girl scouts. I can hit 120db very clean. Come on guys:)

Not a very useful level of noise for normal listening in normal houses though ... unless you live in a castle and need to get the organ music playing all over for a good scary Hallowe'en atmosphere! Also conducive to hearing loss ... but I never listen to anyone anyway, so that probably wouldn't matter.

nikolas812

How you likeing the receiver?










Nick

mmadden28

Kex wrote: »

Not a very useful level of noise for normal listening in normal houses though ... unless you live in a castle and need to get the organ music playing all over for a good scary Hallowe'en atmosphere! Also conducive to hearing loss ... but I never listen to anyone anyway, so that probably wouldn't matter.

That's my goal for next Halloween-I want the whole neighborhood scared. :eek::D:cool:

Fatbrando

Hi there Nikolas812,

The Receiver is far exceeding my expectations so far. Miles Davis, Led Zeppelin, Classical, Ambient, Electronica, Trip-Hip....

Nothing can show me it's weaknesses. I'm only itching to now get my SDA's and let 'em rip. Gotta build the funds a little more for that unfortunately. Soon, soon they will be mine. I just had to turn down a counter offer for a pair of 1.2tl's for $1260.00. Just can make it happen....bwahunnnnnn......bwahuwnnnnn.....(that's me softly sobbing)

Thanks for the support dude! Keep on Polkin'!


FB

mmadden28

Try some Slipknot or Pantera :cool:;)

ben62670

mmadden28 wrote: »

Try some Slipknot or Pantera :cool:;)

Sounds good at my house, and the neighbor's, and the neighbor's neighbor's:D

BTW guys the 123db is C weighted on slow, and just the peaks. Not constant. I ain't stupit ya know:rolleyes::eek::D

Fatbrando

Guys, guys....settle down now.

It's KYUSS or SABBATH

Let's take the little kid stuff to the car audio section....

(heheheheheheheheheh)

FB

mmadden28

OK then, if your scared kick some Kodo on that thar system.

Fatbrando

okay, I'll bite. What's Kodo?

FB

Fatbrando

Ah....the drummers! Yes, yes. They're fantastic!

I figure if you're rich, like Bill Gates rich, you no longer need a Sub, you just have a little naked Japanese man thumping on a HUGE **** drum instead....

And sonically, I think the opening to 'Last Temptation of Christ' would push just as hard as anything they'd lay down...

FB