Getting plans together for system

ukthunderace

Hello all!
I have been looking at upgrading. I have a BOSE lifestyle 28 and I hate it...not so much for movies, but it is terrible for music.
My thought is to buy an integrated amp (Yamaha 3800 or Denon 3808), two LSi 15s, and use the Bose speakers that I have right now as surrounds and sub (for 7.1). I think I will have to get a separate power amp to drive the 15s...does that sound right? I want to be able to use just the 15s for music and bring in the Bose for movies.
I do plan to upgrade the Bose over time, but cost means it will take a little bit. Shipping is a problem too...I am stationed overseas in Germany and for some reason, the Exchange does not carry any Polk. Lots of Bose, JBL and Sony, but Polk is catalogue only and they won't ship overseas. :mad::mad:
So the integrated is the first order of business, then the power and 15s.
I am sooo far from an audiophile...can anyone shoot any holes in my setup? I am definitely open to suggestions!
cheers,
Greg

costaverde

I have bougth a LSi15 speakers, and I recomended you to buy higth standard amplifier. Before I used a MArantz PM-7001 whith these speakers, and I changed by a Marantz PM-15S1 -best series- and it is a great difference. For these speakers I recomended you a very good amp. I don't know the Yamaha 3800 either the Denon 3808. Choose the best. You can have a very sweet sound with these speakers!!

McLoki

Sounds like a plan, but there are a few things you should be aware of before you start......

I am sure the 3800 is a nice receiver, but I would step a little lower (unless there is some feature you are looking for in a reciever that is not available in a lower model) to like the Yamaha 663 and purchase a used 2 or 3 channel amp. You may end up close to the same price, but will get much better 2 channel sound out of it (in my opinion).

Upon further research, I do not think your Bose system will work with anything but your lifestyle reciever. You may have better luck selling the Bose and purchasing some inexpensive speakers to run as your rear surrounds. (speakers plug into your Acoutismass module (and must to prevent damage to them) The acoutistimass module on your system (I belive) has a single propriatary cable that connects it to the AVR. There are not 5 channel inputs for your reciever just a single jack. I am pretty sure you could figure something out by cutting the cable and putting on new ends, but you will probably be better served to just sell it intact and move on if that is what you want.

While you did not ask, the one that I regret about my system is I did not start out from the beginning purchasing everything used. Check into and consider it. Also make sure any electronics you purchase will work with your plug and power requirements in not only Germany but any country you can forsee yourself being stationed in...

BTW - Love the screen name, do you happen to ride a Yamaha YZF?

Michael

apphd

+1 for what McLoki said. If you plan on going to a separate power amp and do not need a feature found in the AVR's you mentioned go with something like the 663. I have done that and have it paired up with an EMO LPA1 (not with LSi's)and feel for the money I could not have done much better for sound. Features are another matter, but the 663 has all I need (not much) and nothing more.

There are a few other options out there in the price range of the Yamaha, but the last I looked only a couple that had the latest high def audio and pre outs, a MUST have if you are going to run an outboard amp.

ukthunderace

Michael,
Thanks for the reply. I was actually going to get both the A/V receiver and then run a power amp off its pre-out. This is possible, right? I figure that will give me surround when I want it and then a strong 2 channel when I want just music.
I checked out the bose that I have and you are correct...I might be able to cut wires and put new ends on, but would have a tough time selling once I upgrade with that surgery. I want LSi 9s for my surrounds in the end...just sooo much frickin' money!

Good catch on the YZF! I used to ride one...fantastic bike. Had the front and rear redone with Ohlins and did a little engine work...it was a true track bruiser! Sold it and bought an Aprilia Factory. Great bike til I crashed hard at Hockenheimring. Haven't ridden since.:(

ukthunderace

apphd wrote: »

+1 for what McLoki said. If you plan on going to a separate power amp and do not need a feature found in the AVR's you mentioned go with something like the 663. I have done that and have it paired up with an EMO LPA1 (not with LSi's)and feel for the money I could not have done much better for sound. Features are another matter, but the 663 has all I need (not much) and nothing more.

There are a few other options out there in the price range of the Yamaha, but the last I looked only a couple that had the latest high def audio and pre outs, a MUST have if you are going to run an outboard amp.

Apphd,
So the 663 would act as a pre-amp (with capability to run surrounds) and I run the power amp off of it? That sounds like exactly what I want to do. The only reason I was looking at the 3800 or the 3803 is that I wanted to make sure I had the best sound formats available to me. Sorting through all the available receivers and amps is like jumping into the deep end not knowing how to swim!

apphd

That is correct the 663 would then be used as a pre-pro. That's why McLoki and I suggest the 663 or similar over the other pricier and higher up AVRs. A lot of the price and appeal of those is for the amp section which you will not be using anyway. There are some other features, more connectivity, video processing etc. that the 663 class($350-$400) unit will not have, but if you do not need them, then why pay for them.

Here is a link to compare the 663 to the 3800. Look at what the 3800 has that the 663 doesn't, any questions you can research, or ask questions here, lots of good people willing to help hang out here. Then decide if you want/need anything that the 663 doesn't have.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/Detail.html?compitem1=&compitem2=558316&compitem3=567571&CTID=5000300&VNM=LIVE&comp_items=558316&comp_items=567571&B_compare.x=33&B_compare.y=7

Also check out the Harman Kardon 254, and Pioneer VSX-1018AH as I think these can be found at around the same price as the Yamaha and also have a lot of happy users.

Good luck with your search, and thanks for your service.

Kex

apphd wrote: »

... Also check out the Harman Kardon 254 ...

I would definitely check out the h/k ... I seem to remember somebody writing that the Yamaha will not allow different crossover settings for different speakers (only one global setting for all speakers), which seems rediculous for a new model in that price range ...

Sherardp

Im overseas working with the military(gov contractor) also. The easiest and I stress cheapest, way to get your LSI's into country would be with a company called BAX Global or APObox.com. Both are freight forwarding companies and have helped with me getting my Rti12s shipped into Japan. For amps you may want to look at Outlaw M2200s, D-Sonic, since they can be shipped to your local post office. Of course there are other amps out there, however when you talk multichannel amps remember you can ship 70-75lbs via USPS. Its get to be trying at times but dont give up. Enjoy the forums and if you need any additional advice, shoot a PM ( in other words been there done that, and have all the answers to the homework for you) since I was in the same boat. Great group of guys here, again enjoy.

PS: If youre looking for a great subwoofer I recommend SVS, all the others to include Epik, Ed wont ship to you, however SVS will, just mention youre military, provide them with an address and its a go. Awesome company and they are there for support also. I know AAFES here doesnt carry HK, Pioneer Elite, and some others. You may have to import allot of gear you want, again shoot me a PM and I'll give you vendors and contacts who you can work to resolve that issue. I know AAFES here is pretty sad when it comes to Hi-End Audio and so many of the guys end up with those Bose systems.

be83663

Instead of spending $1,300 on Denon 3808, I would spend $650 on Onkyo TX-SR806 for the same power and functionalities, and spend $999 on Outlaw Model 7125 7-channel Amplifier (190 wpc into 4 ohms or 125 wpc into 8 ohms). I guess you can use Bose 5.1 in addition to a pair of LSi15's that you are considering of buying, for a 7.1 system, if you can make the Bose speaker wires to be compatible. Making the entire line of speakers for a 7.1 system with LSi series do cost a good $3,000 in addition to about $1,500 for a pair of LSi15's; in your case it might be a little more considering shipping/handling fees.

apphd

be83663 wrote: »

Instead of spending $1,300 on Denon 3808, I would spend $650 on Onkyo TX-SR806 for the same power and functionalities, and spend $999 on Outlaw Model 7125 7-channel Amplifier (190 wpc into 4 ohms or 125 wpc into 8 ohms). I guess you can use Bose 5.1 in addition to a pair of LSi15's that you are considering of buying, for a 7.1 system, if you can make the Bose speaker wires to be compatible. Making the entire line of speakers for a 7.1 system with LSi series do cost a good $3,000 in addition to about $1,500 for a pair of LSi15's; in your case it might be a little more considering shipping/handling fees.

Ahh, but with the 806 you get into the same loop as the 3808 and 3800 paying for amp power (not to be used)THX cert. and features the OP may not want or need.

be83663

apphd wrote: »

Ahh, but with the 806 you get into the same loop as the 3808 and 3800 paying for amp power (not to be used)THX cert. and features the OP may not want or need.

True, but anything lower model than Onkyo TX-SR806 in their lines would not offer the pre-amp outs for external amplifier. So one would have to pay for some features that they would not need, like for the amplifier section of a receiver.

NewHTguy

be83663 wrote: »

True, but anything lower model than Onkyo TX-SR806 in their lines would not offer the pre-amp outs for external amplifier. So one would have to pay for some features that they would not need, like for the amplifier section of a receiver.

The Onk 705/6 has pre-outs. The 605/6 and lower does not.

apphd

NewHTguy wrote: »

The Onk 705/6 has pre-outs. The 605/6 and lower does not.

Which brings us back to McLoki's original suggestion of the Yamaha 663, which if a separate amp is already in the plan, and you are not looking for an extensive feature set, is a very solid pre at a good price. Nothing against the 705/6 805/6 just IMO when an amp is thrown into the mix the Yam 663, HK 254 and Pioneer 1018 jump to the front.

ukthunderace with your additional obstacle of location you should think about taking Sherardp up on his offer for tips/suggestions. It sounds like a way to avoid some time, head aches and possible shipping costs.

Not sure if 6th Ave or J&R ship international or not but they seem to have the best price on the 663 from an authorized dealer, but you have to call them and ask, it's not avail. with on-line orders. With your situation/location I'm not sure if you are concerned with warranty or not. If you can not get it considerably less than MSRP then the Onk 705 would come into an equal price point.

As fast as pre's seem to become obsolete I opt for what can give me just what I want in features and SQ at the lowest price, and put the savings into a quality amp which should do you well for a good amount of time.

ukthunderace

Agreed...the shipping is a pain. I have been trying to find the lsi15s and even with the shipping agencies, it is a no go.
So, maybe I will try to build this backwards. I found Lsi9s on sold by HighDecibels.com for $679 a pair...pretty good? They will ship to me here no problem. I also found a Yamaha 3803 at the local PX for $1000. It has a lot of features I like (especially the networking) and it has pretty good power until I get the 15s. It has the pre-outs, so I figure when I get back to the states next summer, I can finish it out with the 15s and a good power amp.
Question is, is two pairs of Lsi9s too much for a surround system (adding center and 15s in the future?
Sorry this is so random...just kinda feeling out my options over here.
Sherardp, thanks for the info in your post. Living overseas has its advantages, but seriously disadvantages as well.
Advantage: I am drinking Paulaner Oktoberfest Bier while writing this. :D:D
Disadvantage: I am listening to Cake over a Bose lifestyle system:(:(:(

Edit: Not feeling the 663 for "future proofing" and I like the networking. Plus, would the 663 be enough for driving the LSi9s? It is not off the table, just not feeling it at the moment.

apphd

Not familiar with the Yam3803? Are you talking Yamaha 3800 perhaps or Denon 3803? Either way your approach to something in this direction (quality that's avail. on base) that can give you a good starting point to expand on when more choices and options are available to you sounds like a good plan to me. Like I said I like to buy only the features I need in a pre, but I don't think you will be in too bad of shape with the 3800 for some time as well.

ukthunderace

apphd wrote: »

Not familiar with the Yam3803? Are you talking Yamaha 3800 perhaps or Denon 3803? Either way your approach to something in this direction (quality that's avail. on base) that can give you a good starting point to expand on when more choices and options are available to you sounds like a good plan to me. Like I said I like to buy only the features I need in a pre, but I don't think you will be in too bad of shape with the 3800 for some time as well.

LOL...maybe too much Paulaner!;)
Yes, I was talking about the Yam 3800

I really like the networking piece as I currently have a LOT of movies and music on my server. Would be nice having the data going across Cat5 rather than something else. I like the power too...seems the LSi9s need a good drive and I really want to just buy a 2 channel power amp when I get the 15s. Actually, i am trying to talk myself down from some Thiels right now.

ukthunderace

BTW, this HighDecibels place....does anyone think that $679 is too good to be true for LSi9s?

Kex

ukthunderace wrote: »

BTW, this HighDecibels place....does anyone think that $679 is too good to be true for LSi9s?

You might want to read this post from Lasareath about highdecibels before you do any business with them ...

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=853900&postcount=39

ukthunderace

hmmm....i thought maybe it was too good. Guess I will keep checking ebay for Polk direct

McLoki

have you thought about lsi7's as rears? They are smaller than 9's and easier to drive from an avr.

Michael

apphd

ukthunderace wrote: »

LOL...maybe too much Paulaner!;)
Yes, I was talking about the Yam 3800

I really like the networking piece as I currently have a LOT of movies and music on my server. .

Then you would definitely want to consider something with networking capabilities, which will probably put you out of the $400 range unless you go used or maybe left overs without the latest HD audio codecs and HDMI. I think that's a great price you can get at the PX. As far as the different lsi's I can't help much there but others here can.

Since you do not have to worry about AC input on speakers, do you know any locals who might be able to help you locate something on the local/Euro end? I would have to guess that there are some pretty good speaker brands over there that we have heard little of or not at all. How long before you rotate back to the world? Wouldn't want to buy something local and head back 6 months into a warranty.
Again I think your plan is sound to start with an AVR, and smaller speakers, then add 2 or 3 channel amp and buy the main front speakers you WANT and move the smaller older ones to surround duty when you get back state side.

rayslifecycle

Hi UKThunderAce

Check and make sure that the networking capabilities of the Yam will do both video and Audio. The denon 3808 (which you mentioned in the openning post) is not capable of Video through networking - but the audio side works great - and having the USB port right in front has come in handy many times when someone wanted me to listen to something on their jump drive.....

This is an upgradable reciever.....and I am holding out high hopes that a firmware upgrade in the future will yield video over cat 5 capabilities - until then - I have been running a 50' S-video and 50' RCA interconnects from my office and my fiance's office into the inputs on the back of the reciever from our computers to watch you-tube and online videos on the HT.

lastly - someone in a different post said that the Denon 3808 ran the LSi speakers OK - it didn't overheat - but I agree that 15s need a bit more juice to get the most out of them.....and recommend buying a stereo amp to run them......

Sherardp

I think I paid 200 bucks for the pair to get my Rti12s into Japan. The LSi15s are shorter, however Im unsure about weight. You could put an email into Polk CS or perhaps someone here knows the weight, call up Bax Global and get a quote. APObox.com can also ship them to you as well, so go to the website and put an inquiry into them. As for your AVR since youre buying a system I'd go with something that has the latest and greatest. Another option would be Pioneer VSX-TXH94 elite. check out valueelectronics.com, that AVR also offers networking, internet radio etc. Onkyos can be had from Newegg.com and they will ship to you as well. Also check out Onecall and Crutchfield they ship to military also. Matter of fact my entire Rti setup came from Crutchfield. You may also want to see if Polk Audio can ship to you buying through the Ebay store direct. Oh and one last thing, AAFES may be able to get you LSi15s if you do a special order and pay for shipping, I got my JVC HD1 Projector this way.

Dont give up on them bro, if I can get my system up without a problem, Im sure you can as well. Check out my setup in the showcase and you will see what I mean. Stick to the LSi15s, they sound fantastic.

Kex

Sherardp wrote: »

... Im unsure about weight. You could put an email into Polk CS or perhaps someone here knows the weight ...

From the specifications page:

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/floorstanding/individual/rti12/
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/floorstanding/individual/lsi15/

Shipping weights are 88lbs/39.92Kg for the RTi12 and 80lbs/36.29Kg for the LSi15. That seems to be for each speaker.

ukthunderace

Thanks for all the help everyone. I think I have some good info to go on now. Sherardp, glad to know I am not the only one working thrugh the pain of being overseas. I was in the US a couple of weeks ago..my first time in 8 years...and I was amazed at how convenient everything was. Donuts at 0200? Sure, no problem. Stereo equipment? Choose from one of the 12 stores in town. No wonder I have been able to save so much money over here...there is nothing to buy!
Apphd, there are some brands over here, but Europe is pretty expensive. I did think about going to Denmark and checking out Dynaudio speakers...have heard they are good. Bang & Olufsen are good, but they are not powerful enough...more like artwork. Most of the other stuff is small home theater stuff. One thing the US does better than most is speakers.
Clarknova, thanks for the networking info...It hadn't crossed my mind that video wouldn't be available over the networking function! Will certainly be checking that one.
Michael, I was looking at the LSi 7s last night in fact. They seem a bit on the "light side" ? The specs on the 9 look a lot fuller...but the driving factor is going to cost me on amp I think, no matter what I do.
Who over thought building a system would be so difficult! Thanks to you all though, I am definitely learning a lot and will be making good decisions.

cheers,
Greg

Sherardp

maybe you can try and score a pair of B&W 683s or 802ds out there. Not sure what the exchange rate is, but they seem to have dealers everywhere.

Kex

Check out Focal JM Lab too: prices in France make them affordable compared with over here (where you need a mortgage to get them). I can shoot you an address in Paris for good deals if your interested.

ukthunderace

Sherardp, I love the B&W's...a LOT of money though. The Pound is dropping, but it is the 17% sales tax that kills ya.
Kex, never heard of them. Will start a little research on them...I live a stone's throw away from the French border, so that may be an option.

cheers,
Greg

reeltrouble1

Sorry did not have to time to read through every post but I believe I got the jist.

If you are really looking for high musical sound quality I would keep your Bose for HT and then get components designed to play music.

NAD, Parasound, Outlaw, Anthem the list goes on and on and you can spend all the money you want, in general you get what you pay for. If you insist on having just one rig, then your music preamp should be seperate from your A/V receiver and have a HT by-pass. All receivers are filled with devices that really do not lead down a path to musical sound quality.

In any event enjoy your search and the music.

RT1

McLoki

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

If you are really looking for high musical sound quality I would keep your Bose for HT and then get components designed to play music.

I am actually kind of embarrased I did not think of this. A great suggestion. Thunderace mentions he is ok with the bose for movies - maybe a separate 2 channel setup will get him the best of what he really wants for the lowest cost. (since there will not be additional channels to suck up the budget)

Michael