Suitable Alternatives to Onkyo TX-SR805?

prstrings

I have been seriously looking at picking up an Onkyo 805 for my RTi12 towers and CSi5. I understand that I need an amp, but for now ($$$ reasons) I am going to have to settle for a good receiver that has a good internal amp. After reading many, many threads on here, it seems like the Onkyo 805 is a popular pick in large part because it provides good power.

I have found that I can get a new 805 online for around $625-650, which is a good price.

First, I have also read about people having problems with this receiver overheating/smoking/etc., and that concerns me. Should it?

Second, what are other receiver options that will produce similar power to the 805 at a similar price?

I really appreciate the help.

Parachoute

I bought a used avr 8000 from harman kardon to go with my Rti10 and I really really really love the combo. With this type of receiver, no need for an amp.

prstrings

Also, it seems that Pioneer Elite receivers also generally receive good reviews on this forum. How do the Pioneers compare to the Onkyos, particularly in terms of power (seeing that I am not going to be buying an amp any time soon)?

Thanks.

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mmadden28

prstrings wrote: »

...

I have found that I can get a new 805 online for around $625-650, which is a good price.

First, I have also read about people having problems with this receiver overheating/smoking/etc., and that concerns me. Should it?

If you're patient (since they sell out quick but they usually get more) and still desire the Onk 805, keep watching eCost. They have the refrub units for sale currently at $489.99. When I got mine it was like brand new. Ecost is an authorized dealer so the warranty although shorter on the refurb, is good.
Also Onkyo also has its own site that has them on sale from time to time.


Never had my Onk smoke or anything, but it does run hot-Just keep it ventilated and not closed up in a cabinet and you should be fine.

ben62670

Another vote for HK

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NewHTguy

Just FYI, I am running a similar set-up with an Onk 875, which was purchased for $900 from 6ave (an auth online dealer) a while back. I sit about 10 feet from the speakers and have a wall behind me (behind the couch). I have the Rti 10's bi-amped using the rear channels of the Onk and don't have any need for an amp. I know some would say that I would still benefit from one, and that may be something I add just because I like buying electronics,. However, I can't turn the volume up beyond 70-75 without it causing my ears to bleed. Also, the 875 does a great job upscaling standard DVD's. I'm in no rush to buy a Blu-ray player.

NewHTguy

Forgot to mention that the 875 does get hot and mine is not in a cabinet. Do plan on adding a fan, just to be safe.

mmadden28

Kex wrote: »

Great pricing for harmon/kardon on amazon.com. Check the AVR254 under $400 and the AVR354 (under $700, I think), and AFIK they have all the bells & whistles of the Onkyo ... I find h/k and Polk Audio to be a really good match personally.

I didn't see that deal at Amazon on the 354 but B&H does have it for under $700 and BB has if for $719 if you want to save shipping (and tax if you live near one of those states)

mmadden28

Here's a HK 254 on the 'gon
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1229838671&/Harman-Kardon-AVR-254(Newest))
$375 incl shipping-

billbillw

I'd keep my eye open, check a couple times per day at shoponkyo.com. They often have refurbished 805 models in black or silver for only $499 or less. You might also see the 806 model coming available for that price as well.

As far as heat/smoking/etc, I would not worry unless you plan to put this receiver into a closed cabinet. If that is the case, then you will have heat problems with almost any receiver unless you provide some type of ventilation. The SR805 does run a bit warmer than some of the competing brands, but at the same time, it does put out more full range, sustainable power than any other receiver in this price range. I would not agree with what Kex says above. The current series Onkyo receivers are known for real world power and it is reflected in the THX certifications given to these receivers. Tests have shown that the 805 receiver puts out a continuous 120wpc with all 7 channels driven. That is rare among AV receivers in this price class.

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billbillw

Kex wrote: »

I'ld bet that's using at least 1% THD, or certainly not the Onkyo standard, which is 130w/ch @ 0.05% THD with only two channels driven ... I'm not convinced that THX has got a lot to do with it either, since IIRC that standard is so basic that it is meaningless in real world usage. That said, Onkyo do seem to be trying hard to improve their power output ... maybe that is where the heat issues come from ... JMO.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/208bwonk/index5.html

That's measured at less than .1% distortion, which is still in the realm of undetectable by ear. THX Ultra 2 is pretty rare and usually it translates to a receiver that measures very well in the power output categories.

Regardless, it is still much better than any of the competing receivers from Sony, Denon, HK, Marantz, Pioneer, or otherwise.
Here are some measurements from competing receivers from Marantz and Denon:
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/708denon3808/index2.html
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/508mar8002/index2.html

Neither are able to match the all 5 channel or 7 channels driven measurements of the Onkyo

mmadden28

Kex wrote: »

I'ld bet that's using at least 1% THD, or certainly not the Onkyo standard, which is 130w/ch @ 0.05% THD with only two channels driven ... I'm not convinced that THX has got a lot to do with it either, since IIRC that standard is so basic that it is meaningless in real world usage. That said, Onkyo do seem to be trying hard to improve their power output ... maybe that is where the heat issues come from ... JMO.

I'm using an external amp, yet it still gets hot. I wish there was a way to disable the internal amps.

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prstrings

It sounds like it's pretty well accpeted that Harmon Kardon produces more power than it claims in its specifications (although I cannot figure out why it would understate the power), and that Onkyo produces less power than it claims in its specifications, although not as bad as other brands.

Can anyone provide a ballpark range of what wattage I should look for in a Harmon Kardon to get similar power to the 130W claimed by Onkyo in its 805?

Thanks.

Note: I understand that there's more to selecting a receiver than power, but the main reason I am replacing my pathetic Sony is because I know I am getting far too little power to my towers and center than I should be.

billbillw

The problem is, HK doesn't make a receiver that is rated above 75 wpc at this time. Even if you give them a benefit of the doubt, that 75wpc will probably only equal 85-90wpc all channels driven at .1%.

In addition, if you look around the internet, it seems that HK receivers do not have the best reputation for reliability these days.

Believe me, I do not make the recommendation for the SR805/SR806 solely based on the amp performance bench testing. I make the recommendation based on the feature set, the quality of construction, the power output, the sound, and the value.

Even selling at full MSRP, it is hard to find an equal.

Regarding Kex's frequent mention of NAD. AFIK, NAD still doesn't make a receiver that decodes TrueHD, DD+, or DTS HD/HD Master. Even without those features, a comparable powered NAD receiver will run double the price of the Onkyo.

Simply put, the SR805 has no match at the price these refurbs are selling for ($450-$600)

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prstrings

Thanks for all the help. If anyone else has anything to add, I'm still listening.

Sherardp

Pioneer Elite 94 will get those Rti's going and deliver a nice sound while doing so. It will pass full HD untouched, including 1080p/24. Internet radio and a ton of inputs to boot for right around 700-800 if you shop around.

prstrings

Also, Kex, I assume the Onkyo 805 is a good compromise between power and bells and whistles. True? Is there a better compromise?

Sherardp

prstrings wrote: »

Also, Kex, I assume the Onkyo 805 is a good compromise between power and bells and whistles. True? Is there a better compromise?

See my post above, I just answered you

Parachoute

Do you find the Rti12 a bit bright? If so, consider a receiver that is on the warm side and is, for many of us, a perfect match with RTi: Harman Kardon.

Parachoute

You mentioned that you need power but do you have or plan to buy a blu-Ray player. Do you need a receiver that decodes the new HD audio formats?

prstrings

Parachoute (and all others still willing to help):

I do find my the RTi12 bright, but a big problem I'm trying to deal with is that I'm currently powering them on a Sony STR-DG810, which is obviously a very low-end receiver.

Because I'm using such a low-quality receiver, I really don't know where to go from here. Will the extra power from an Onkyo 805 make a significant difference? Will an HK 254? A Pioneer Elite 94? Other options?

I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that my current Sony is getting very little power to the speakers, and that an increase in power (perhaps offered by the Onkyo 805 or another option in its price range) will make a significant difference. Is that a false assumption?

ben62670

Bill I listen to, and take your advice very seriously, but from hands on experience my little HK 235 had only 50wpc, and smoked my Yami 110wpc. Watts are kinda misleading. IDK about the new Onk's, but I loved the sound of my HK. It was very "true" sounding, warm, and the watt factor with receivers is not comparable to an external amp in most cases. I drove my HK with hard loads(low ohms) with no issues. The HK did run a little hot, but so do most good amps.
Ben

Parachoute

The Rti12 are very power hungry. With my 10s, I went from yamaha 55w to h/k 125w and I can tell you, it's night and day.

If I were you i would keep an eye on this avr 8000 on ebay (I can't post the link).

For bells, Onkyo might be a good bet but if you go this route, I would chose a model with preamp output so you could add an amp later on. I would also try to figure out how it sounds with Rti.

billbillw

ben62670 wrote: »

Bill I listen to, and take your advice very seriously, but from hands on experience my little HK 235 had only 50wpc, and smoked my Yami 110wpc. Watts are kinda misleading. IDK about the new Onk's, but I loved the sound of my HK. It was very "true" sounding, warm, and the watt factor with receivers is not comparable to an external amp in most cases. I drove my HK with hard loads(low ohms) with no issues. The HK did run a little hot, but so do most good amps.
Ben

Ben,
That doesn't surprise me at all. Yamaha and Sony are the biggest exaggerators of power output. That 110wpc Yamaha would probably be lucky to put out 45wpc with all channels driven.

This recent Yamaha is rated at 105wpc, but barely did 41wpc with all channels driven.
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/708yamrec/index2.html
Again, I'm not saying the all channels driven test is the only thing to look at, but if an amp can output near its rated output with all channels driven, you know it has a very healthy power supply and should be capable of driving most speakers without difficulty in a HT setup.

I agree that the HK receivers have a warmer sound that may come across as more natural. They usually win every comparison test when it comes to music playback.

I'd just be wary of HK reliability. Seems like a awful lot of reports of their receivers just dying out of the blue after only 2-3 years.

RichterCAG

I must disagree with the marks toward HK reliability. I have owned 2 HK recievers in my life. The 140 and the 330 both are 7 and 5 years old respectively. And in all of that time, neither reciever has ever given a wit of trouble.

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