floorstanders - why necessary?
Comments
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Really glad to see you're still lovin' on those AAD's.
Yeah, eventually, I'll add the subs back in. Next time, though, I'll want to move beyond the 10" DIYers. Maybe a couple of 12" or 15" Onix subs. or the dual Emo subs with room correction and separate amplification. However, space is a major issue.
Sounds like you have a nice plan for the cold months ahead. I hear ya on the space issue though. Happy listening."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
The author doesn't know WTF he's talking about.
With speakers, go big. Big as you possibly can.
What did you see wrong with the sidebar article? Just asking. -
What did you see wrong with the sidebar article? Just asking.
Bluntly he has no clue. He is regurgitating info he he received.Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
Nobody here is right, including me, except for Kex's first post. Read it. He is comparing apples to apples. Same number of drivers, 1 a book, 1 a floor. The 800 is a "floorstander" but it is also designed for mids and highs mainly.
I have had JBL monitors with an 18" woofers, Frazier dual 12" and Eclipse (bought by Paradigm years ago) dual 8 inchers all in one box. They all sounded OK, some even good, all of em loud.
So, a definition "floorstanders" should be made before expounding on all the + or minuses of F vs B.
Intimately, of all the speakers I've had, any Polk 6.5" single or dual MW, sounds great/better with a seperate, quality powered woofer.
Idle Thoughts -
You obviously haven't heard a good pair of SDA's.Polksaladanni wrote: »Intimately, of all the speakers I've had, any Polk 6.5" single or dual MW, sounds great/better with a seperate, quality powered woofer."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
I don't need no stinkin' sub woofer.
Face, I soldered my Avel Connections last night just for you.I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D -
You obviously haven't heard a good pair of SDA's.
Or the Monitor Audio PL300.....along with many others.
http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/product.php?range=11&product=94Living Room:....................[HTML] [/HTML] Zone 2 (Workout Room):
AVR - Yamaha RX-V757......JBL 4312 Pro Monitors
Pre - Nak CA-5
AMP - Adcom 555 (Main)
Main - Polk RTI8**/RTiA5
AMP - Adcom 545II (Center)
Center - Polk CSiA4**
Sub - Snell Basis 300:p......Zone 3 (Outside)
CD - Yamaha CDC-555.......Def Tech AW5500
TV - Pani TH-42PZ80U
BR - LG BD390
Monster HTS1600 Power Center
Dedicated Circuit - (2) 20amp, (1) 15amp
Ben's IC, Canare 4S11
**Dayton and Sonicap Caps with Mills Resistors** -
3.87 of 4 Polkies agree, SDA's don't need no stinkin' subwoofer.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Living Room:....................[HTML] [/HTML] Zone 2 (Workout Room):
AVR - Yamaha RX-V757......JBL 4312 Pro Monitors
Pre - Nak CA-5
AMP - Adcom 555 (Main)
Main - Polk RTI8**/RTiA5
AMP - Adcom 545II (Center)
Center - Polk CSiA4**
Sub - Snell Basis 300:p......Zone 3 (Outside)
CD - Yamaha CDC-555.......Def Tech AW5500
TV - Pani TH-42PZ80U
BR - LG BD390
Monster HTS1600 Power Center
Dedicated Circuit - (2) 20amp, (1) 15amp
Ben's IC, Canare 4S11
**Dayton and Sonicap Caps with Mills Resistors** -
Thank you Polksaladanni for turning my thinking back on track.
You make some very valid points Blakflag. If you have two speakers with identical drivers, there may not be a difference between a FS and a BS. However, I would hope that the drivers would be optimized in the FS for the larger cabinet volume; that would create a difference in sound. Plus, some drivers are optimized for a larger enclosure. (ie. a 5" single full range drivers in an infinite baffle enclosure vs. a small, ported box) The other issue is that BS aren't considered full range, and if that is something you want from your speakers, FS will have to be your option. But, there are many outstanding BS speakers, and you don't have to buy a pair of FS speakers just to have high SQ. -
Size matters. A pair of bookshelves can produce a simple acoustic guitar as well as or better than many similarly priced floorstanders, but no bookshelf can produce something like the 1812 Overture or a live concert like a massive full range speaker can. Unless of course you are adding speedy subs with a great low end to the bookshelves . . . but that pretty much makes the whole argument moot.
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SolidSqual wrote: »Size matters. A pair of bookshelves can produce a simple acoustic guitar as well as or better than many similarly priced floorstanders, but no bookshelf can produce something like the 1812 Overture or a live concert like a massive full range speaker can. Unless of course you are adding speedy subs with a great low end to the bookshelves . . . but that pretty much makes the whole argument moot.
There in lies the true beauty of a monitor/sub combo. The sheer musical prowness of a monitor over a FS, pretty much is a given in all areas except in the bass department (not always though). Now add in a fast, musical sub with the monitors & the combo becomes lethal. Now the FS has been outclassed in all areas. The law of physics and proper placement issues are what the monitor/sub combo has over the FS. In the end, it's just not a fair fight. The FS held up well, but in the end just ran out of gas & was knocked for a loop."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Oh boy, a worthy debate?
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
pearsall001 wrote: »There in lies the true beauty of a monitor/sub combo. The sheer musical prowness of a monitor over a FS, pretty much is a given in all areas except in the bass department (not always though). Now add in a fast, musical sub with the monitors & the combo becomes lethal. Now the FS has been outclassed in all areas. The law of physics and proper placement issues are what the monitor/sub combo has over the FS. In the end, it's just not a fair fight. The FS held up well, but in the end just ran out of gas & was knocked for a loop.
I'm glad your theory took a turn into fairytale land.....:rolleyes:Living Room:....................[HTML] [/HTML] Zone 2 (Workout Room):
AVR - Yamaha RX-V757......JBL 4312 Pro Monitors
Pre - Nak CA-5
AMP - Adcom 555 (Main)
Main - Polk RTI8**/RTiA5
AMP - Adcom 545II (Center)
Center - Polk CSiA4**
Sub - Snell Basis 300:p......Zone 3 (Outside)
CD - Yamaha CDC-555.......Def Tech AW5500
TV - Pani TH-42PZ80U
BR - LG BD390
Monster HTS1600 Power Center
Dedicated Circuit - (2) 20amp, (1) 15amp
Ben's IC, Canare 4S11
**Dayton and Sonicap Caps with Mills Resistors** -
pearsall001 wrote: »There in lies the true beauty of a monitor/sub combo. The sheer musical prowness of a monitor over a FS, pretty much is a given in all areas except in the bass department (not always though). Now add in a fast, musical sub with the monitors & the combo becomes lethal. Now the FS has been outclassed in all areas. The law of physics and proper placement issues are what the monitor/sub combo has over the FS. In the end, it's just not a fair fight. The FS held up well, but in the end just ran out of gas & was knocked for a loop.
Even when adding stereo subs to the mix, I'd still prefer to use full range floorstanders with subs instead of bookshelves with subs.HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes." -
I've listened to alot of set-ups with monitors and subs,and alot of floorstanders too.I think once you get to a certain price point,floorstanders have it by a mile over monitors.They just seem to have a better stage,depth,than you can get with monitors.Of coarse thats just me and I know some of you will disagree,like Phil,but thats cool,whatever floats your boat,after all,it is about enjoying what your hearing,right?HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I am in now way condoning subs and monitors. In my experience, they never blend as well as two big floorstanders.
If you still need a subwoofer with your Floorstanders, then you don't have real floorstanders. All you have is a tall pair of monitors. -
Bingo!
Solidsqual's said what I was trying to say.
The first question or reply to blakflag should have been: What is you definition of a floorstander?
A RTi8? OK, that in my book would be monitors with built-in stands.
A SDA or RTi12 you say? Welp, you probably will like em just fine as a stand-alone full range speaker. Unless you have to have the BoomTittiBoom or you like symphany with organ music or harps and such.
Which I do.
We all went off on a bunch of tangents before we ask Mr Blak want his idea of a floor stander is... -
You obviously haven't heard a good pair of SDA's.
Mr. Face,
Are you my best friend? Because I don’t remember “hangin with ya” way back. My best friend or long-time group of friends can make a statement like that about me. Sorta. My wife of 18 years can’t even make that claim. My best friend, for the last 38 of my almost 50 years of livin, can say that.
$1000.00, what color are my eyes?
My friends know that I have listened and heard practically every speaker known to man from 1974 to 1995. Yes, that includes the very well rounded SDA. One of my music “friends” still has some sort of SDA with 4? tweeters and 8-6.5's or some such in his garage. It's not the end all beat all of speakers. So give it a rest. They are not available anymore nor, readily available to 95% of the people on this forum. Plus, some folks don't want a speaker the size of a coffin. Some do. Maybe they want a slim-line tower instead? A bookshelf or just some clear advise. I don’t know…..
Lonnie(that friend with the SDA’s) is the one that turned me on to Polk’s. He's not even my best friend either but, a good friend. He got me a life support job, after a corporate shutdown of my supposed career employer back in 1987, working at a place called Hillcrest HiFi in Dallas. Worked there for about 1.5 years, from his talking to the gracious owner who hired me.
I worked as a repair technician there repairing (and selling sometimes) only what they had to offer. Which would be the likes of Runco and Vidikron projects, B&W, M&K, Velodyne, Marantz, Carver, Farudja, SAE, Martin Logan, Polk and on & on. They were a small company at the time, but we all sometimes installed our gear into million dollar homes in N. Dallas and Highland Park. Does that meake me an authority of audio? Fark NO! I wouldn't know where to begin trying to build a speaker. But I can fix it.
We had 4) 18x25d “acoustically inert” listening/video rooms, with all the bells and whistles and furniture, at the final location in Addison. It was great fun, we built a good liitle small company, and through trial and error mostimes, installed some serious systems. Yep, we sneakedin a few of the competitor’s speakers for listens also. But more importantly, I owe these 2 friends anything they want from me forever because of their huge hearts and support for me at a crisis point in my life.
So, please don’t assume you know me, just like I have no idea of who you are. Assuming can quickly lead to becoming the first 3 letters of the word instead. I did the same thing when I first joined here a few 3-5 weeks ago. I apologized to both individuals because I was wrong. I am not asking that of you, I ask as my loving and wise father said: Think a little bit before you speak or in this case type.
We are all in this together, and I could not imagine finding a better group of strangers (including you bro) to hang and talk music and sounds with. At my age, I owe it to the young folks and humanity anything I can offer. I hope some things I have experienced over the years might be of value, maybe not.
Now you can say you know something about me.
Polk Rules -
PS, Yes I am a dork and a geek and an **** on the keyboard at times but in real life, face to face, I am 100x kinder and diplomatic verbally. That's what I do for a living is talk and help people with problems at their facilities.
Paul -
Just my observation, but I don't think Face said anything to personally insult you-at least not enough to qualify such a response. Just sounded like a simple comment without any hidden agenda. Of course I am not aware of any previous conversations you may have had with Face that might lean you towards interpreting his comment differently; but just going on the one single comment in this thread. I should also note that I do not know Face to be able to properly interpret what his intention was--Again, just my third party observation.
Anyway back to the thread topic-- not sure why anybody should have to explain what their definitiion of anything is in such detail from the gitgo, unless they are looking for exactly that answer. Although it is a good discussion otherwise.
To my simple audio mindset, a floorstander is simply a speaker that stands on its own 'on the floor'. If I limit myself to Polk right now, These are Floorstanders, and these Bookshelfs as the manufacturer categorized them, I'm sure not by any of the range capabilities.
I was always under the understanding (without getting into any details) that floorstanders would typcially give full range (or close to it) sound. Some better than others. Isn't that why most Pre/pro/avr's have speqker settings for Large and Small speakers?? I always assumed the biggest difference to be the cabinet volume which had a significant impact on that sound. Also the ability to physically fit larger drivers and output higher SPL levels. And that choice between the different types was typically an aesthetics decision (when the room or WAF wouldn't allow full floorstanding speakers) since you could get Full range sound with bookshelfs or satellites by adding more speakers such as a separate and appropriately matched subwoofer .
I've always wondered myself what the real difference was. Such as my RTi12's--if I'm using them with a Xover at 80 with an external sub, am I really just wasting the reason for having them. Could I get away with some bookshelfs with similar drivers/tweets for the mids/highs and get the same sound? Of course in my case I am not too concerned as I already have them and I prefer them in thier stand alone-floor standing-peice of furniture like nature of them, rather than having some potententially unwieldy speakers on stands potentially getting knocked over by my kids. So essentially they may be running li bookshelve's but with built in stands. Perhaps.____________________
This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
In my experience I can agree to that.SolidSqual wrote: »I am in now way condoning subs and monitors. In my experience, they never blend as well as two big floorstanders.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Simply put, I don't consider it insulting either . But when any person puts words into my mouth I will let them know, no i feel this way about baby seals. If anyone takes it as a keyboard flaming read the second part.
My original point was aside from Polk, there are 100's of tower configuations out there. You my want to find out what the persons needs are before we all go off on or tangents.
Peace, Paul
