floorstanders - why necessary?

blakflag

Hi all,

For a while now I've been trying to figure out how to step up the audio quality of my setup. I have a Polk RM6700 system with PSW404. The 404 is enough bass for me but I am ready for some more definition in the mids and highs. (I use nice audio monitors for computer speakers so I'm starting to get snobby)

My room is currently 13x13x8 with an open floorplan.

I see that most people here like floorstanding speakers, but I really don't quite grasp the necessity. Isn't that what the sub/satellite combination was meant to solve? I kind of like small speakers over monster floorstanders... but I want the best quality for my money. Maybe I just haven't experienced the right home theatre setup to make me understand

I'm thinking of buying from polkdirect or other ebay source. I am currently eyeing the RTi A5's / CSi 4.. but I am wondering if maybe 4 FXi4 speakers might be more in line with my needs? My amp is a Onkyo 606 so I need to keep it efficient as possible. (dont need massive loudness, particularly)

Anyone want to argue one way or another? Thanks...

VR3

Alot of people like floorstanders because nothing can replace displacement...

However, a good bookshelf will outperform a floorstander in clarity and staging...

I like a floorstanding for the extra bass response and the larger sound it puts out...

Definitely personal preference

Early B.

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

However, a good bookshelf will outperform a floorstander in clarity and staging...

Not sure about that one. It sorta contradicts the reason people like floorstanders. I'll bet if you put the Taylo reference monitors up against the 7U's in your room, I doubt that the monitors will provide better clarity or staging.

As you said, with floorstanders displacement is the draw, but that equates to a bigger stage. I think the clarity issue may come into play with the bass of floorstanders not being set up properly in the room, so it can affect clarity.

ben62670

Larger drivers move/energize more air. The little ones just don't do it for me any more.

Music Joe

blakflag get thy read on and check out this article. It's interesting.

"2.5 Cheers For Stand Mounted Moniters"

George Grand

Because if you want that BIG, real sound, you need to use real big speakers.

treitz3

Hmmmm, if you don't know, you don't know.

George Grand

Big speakers can sound like the real deal without breaking a sweat. There is a certain effortless character that indicates to you that as loud and accurate as it might be right then, going even further clockwise would somehow, just make them louder.

Smaller speakers usually don't have this going for them.

Face

There's no replacement for displacement.

Early B.

Music Joe wrote: »

blakflag get thy read on and check out this article. It's interesting.

"2.5 Cheers For Stand Mounted Moniters"

The author doesn't know WTF he's talking about.

With speakers, go big. Big as you possibly can.

treitz3

There are limitations though, as with most speakers.

ben62670

The author states the monitor was 12x12x24. Nobody would use a semi square box. The general rule is 3x4x5. I prefer a larger speaker;)

McLoki

For me, it came down to floorstanders were really not that much more than bookshelves when you factor in decent stands for them. Also they were significantly more stable than speakers on stands would be. (important with kids and large dogs running around)

That and I just like the look for floorstanders more.

Michael

BlueFox

blakflag wrote: »

Hi all,

I see that most people here like floorstanding speakers, but I really don't quite grasp the necessity. Isn't that what the sub/satellite combination was meant to solve?

Well, since most speaker manufacturers top-of-the-line speakers are floor standers that should be a clue. Plus they just look better than little wimpy speakers on stands.

ben62670

BlueFox wrote: »

Well, since most speaker manufacturers top-of-the-line speakers are floor standers that should be a clue. Plus they just look better than little wimpy speakers on stands.

And they don't take up any more floor space:)

F1nut

However, a good bookshelf will outperform a floorstander in clarity and staging...

I'm going to amend your comment to say, can outperform in those areas, but a good floorstander can and will outperform a bookshelf in all areas.

There is no subsitute for large radiating surfaces and a man's amp.

danger boy

how about SDA CRS+'s? they are bookshelf, no? and outperform other floorstanders in certain areas



















runs and hides

F1nut

Al, from first hand experience.....the CRS+ are very good bookshelf speakers, IMO. However, compared to the bigger SDA's, they don't hold a candle.

Polksaladanni

I'll give you my personal 2ch opinion when the RTi8's get here. I will be able to hear first hand between a dual 6.5" bookshelf RT55i vs dual 6.5" RTi8 tower.

From what I've seen from R&R on the RT55 and RTi6 there is no difference in the woofers except the dustcaps and cone colors. Both are 4.1ohms. So the 8's got to be the same.

I got the 8's because I have had stands for the last 20 years and the cherry finish. Before that I had several large driver tower/floor speakers. I hope the 8's are not too bass heavy/muddy.

Personally though, I love the complete separation of the low bass freqs/res/standing waves from the the mids and highs, via a quality powered subwoofer in it's own box.

Paul

pearsall001

A floorstander is nothing more than a monitor wanna-be all stuffed into a larger cabinet (a design flaw from the start). The designers spend more time trying to overcome the problimatic issues with trying to do everything in one cabinet properly.

A monitor will out perform a floorstander in all areas but the bass department. However the difference in bass is the downfall of the FS.

In probably all room placements, where you have the FS is more than likely the actual worst location for "quality" bass reproduction. Now you pair the monitor up with a good sub or two (properly located, calibrated & dialed in) & watch the FS cower & crawl into the corner with it's tail between it's leg.

maximillian

What about the LSi15's and 25's. To me they seem like LSi9's with a built-in subwoofer. The other difference is that the 9's are meant to handle all the bass. The cabinet and crossover of the FS LSi's in the upper portion do not carry the bass potion. So would 9's and a great subwoofer outperform the FS LSi's?

BjornB17

i'm not so sure i can agree with much of what has been said...

I think in many cases a floorstander will outperform a bookshelf. of course there are cases where this isnt true but it always has been true in my experience.

example: Comparing my RTi10s to the RTi4 and RTi6's that i have. The bookshelves, while they sound alright, have a muddy upper-bass and and non-existant lower bass. with the woofer trying to provide such a wide range of frequency response, it seems that the mids are negatively impacted. the RTi10s separate things much better, the mids and bass dont get jumbled together. I've tried both with and without a sub, and in either case i think the floorstander sounds much better.

TNRabbit

George Grand wrote: »

Because if you want that BIG, real sound, you need to use real big speakers.

George Grand wrote: »

Big speakers can sound like the real deal without breaking a sweat. There is a certain effortless character that indicates to you that as loud and accurate as it might be right then, going even further clockwise would somehow, just make them louder.

Smaller speakers usually don't have this going for them.

F1nut wrote: »

I'm going to amend your comment to say, can outperform in those areas, but a good floorstander can and will outperform a bookshelf in all areas.

There is no subsitute for large radiating surfaces and a man's amp.

x2....

Kex

BjornB17 wrote: »

... Comparing my RTi10s to the RTi4 and RTi6's that i have. ...

That's not necessarily a true FS vs. BS comparison, since the RTi10 have tweets, mids, and woofers, whereas the RTi4 and RTi6 only have tweets and mids.

I have RT800s (FS) and RT55s (BS). They both have the same tweeters and drivers. Only the cabinet is different. The specs are slightly different on paper, but in real life, they are so similar that it really doesn't matter to me. On the size issue, the RT55 on their stands actually seem bigger than the RT800 standing on their own feet, and what McLoki says about dogs and kids is worth considering (if a BS falls off it's stand, it's going to hurt! A FS would not be unscathed in a topple either, probably, but it would take more of a push perhaps).

Product pages (from the silghty newer "i" version of the RT line - the RT pages do not seem to be available but the official specifications are identical according to the manual I have):
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/rt800i/
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/rt55i/

Early B.

pearsall001 wrote: »

A floorstander is nothing more than a monitor wanna-be all stuffed into a larger cabinet (a design flaw from the start). The designers spend more time trying to overcome the problimatic issues with trying to do everything in one cabinet properly.

A monitor will out perform a floorstander in all areas but the bass department. However the difference in bass is the downfall of the FS.

In probably all room placements, where you have the FS is more than likely the actual worst location for "quality" bass reproduction. Now you pair the monitor up with a good sub or two (properly located, calibrated & dialed in) & watch the FS cower & crawl into the corner with it's tail between it's leg.

Ha ha. You've been living with yor AAD 2001's for too long. Those monitors can definitely spar with the big boys, but they are a rare exception.

I previously had a stereo sub setup and loved it. It was the best bass I heard, until recently. I changed the configuration of my setup (same speakers, but now along the short wall), changed a couple of components, and the bass is astounding. I didn't think it was possible. I haven't felt the need to add the dual subs again. The secret is in the setup. The vast majority of people with floorstanders don't have a clue about proper placement, but instead will damn all floorstanders to hell. (OK, so maybe that's a slight exaggeration.)

John30_30

ben62670 wrote: »

The author states the monitor was 12x12x24. Nobody would use a semi square box. The general rule is 3x4x5. I prefer a larger speaker;)

Like that Greek guy. Nice, thanks.

blakflag

wow thanks for all the input. Maybe I should just take the leap for some floorstanders. I will check out folks other recommendations but I have a feeling I won't have the coin for some of them.

pearsall001

Early B. wrote: »

Ha ha. You've been living with yor AAD 2001's for too long. Those monitors can definitely spar with the big boys, but they are a rare exception.

I previously had a stereo sub setup and loved it. It was the best bass I heard, until recently. I changed the configuration of my setup (same speakers, but now along the short wall), changed a couple of components, and the bass is astounding. I didn't think it was possible. I haven't felt the need to add the dual subs again. The secret is in the setup. The vast majority of people with floorstanders don't have a clue about proper placement, but instead will damn all floorstanders to hell. (OK, so maybe that's a slight exaggeration.)

I was waiting for your response!

With floorstanders it's all about placement...most of the time with lack luster bass performance (due to sharing the same cabinet with the other drivers, XO, etc.). I'm glad to hear that you found the ideal spot for those bad boys. Now to really make them sing...put the subs back in!!! Now we're talking!!

And you're right...those AAD 2001 monitors are a rare breed! Still loving 'em.

zingo

The floorstand argument is definitely true when it comes to horns. There is a rare pair of decent horns in bookshelf form (Klipsch RB-75), but mostly floorstands because of the required size.

Early B.

pearsall001 wrote: »

I was waiting for your response!

With floorstanders it's all about placement...most of the time with lack luster bass performance (due to sharing the same cabinet with the other drivers, XO, etc.). I'm glad to hear that you found the ideal spot for those bad boys. Now to really make them sing...put the subs back in!!! Now we're talking!!

And you're right...those AAD 2001 monitors are a rare breed! Still loving 'em.

Really glad to see you're still lovin' on those AAD's.

Yeah, eventually, I'll add the subs back in. Next time, though, I'll want to move beyond the 10" DIYers. Maybe a couple of 12" or 15" Onix subs. or the dual Emo subs with room correction and separate amplification. However, space is a major issue.

Kex

Something that may be forgotten by the wayside here is the intended use: the requirements for gaming, home theater, modern music and classical music are very different IMO. To each his own priorities, but therein lies the difficulty of building a new system for the more demanding listener ...