1.2 XO upgrade observations

BAD ASP

About a year ago I decided to look for a pair of 1.2's. I found a pair here on this forum (polksda), bought them and listened to them in both music and HT. I also have a pair of 3.1tl's which I purchased new back in 89 - 90 +/-.
The 3.1's have provided me with many years of solid performance and enjoyment. When I bought them I really wanted the 1.2's but didn't have the space or the money.... so I settled for the 3.1's. Musically they have been fantastic and the 1.2's were even more enjoyable providing the broader and deeper soundstage I had read about. I began reading about tweeter upgrades and XO upgrades here and was intrigued by DarqueKnight's review and I then purchased his Compendium. Once reading it I was convinced that it was something I wanted to do. The idea of me taking apart the existing boards and installing new components didn't seem to be terribly difficult but I do lack the tools and my dexterity in one hand is terrible due to an accident years ago, so I shelved it. Incidentally, I upgraded the tweeters in June and that provided excellent results.
I then recently read that Ben62670 was willing to tackle the project for us Polkies. I contacted him and we agreed to terms and he performed the work for me. His workmanship is beautiful and he completed the job and returned them to me quickly. I reinstalled them and here are my impressions:



WOW WOW WOW



I was already quite satisfied with the originals performance but now I was immediately made aware of the even broader and deeper soundstage. With what I had read about the increased nuances of the sounds from the musicians such as the drumstick licks, the pick resonances on acoustical guitar and the deeper and fuller sound, I was not disappointed with the results. Each instrument seems to have a bit more clarity and quicker response then I have been used to. For reference I used a few albums that I've played to death over the years, Styx, Fleetwood Mac and the Eagles. I know I am hearing more sound, not louder just much fuller. My rooms width is 16'0" and the entire wall is now sound. The depth of the instrumentation and voices is much more pronounced than the original.

These observations were made immediately after installation. I will comment again as they break in.
I want to thank Ben and DarqueKnight for having the ability and sharing it with us. I especially want to acknowledge Ben for doing this work for me in the face of some family issues and I do pray for his Grandma. Grandmas are really special, God Bless!
I had already committed to upgrading the XO's in the 3.1's and now I am stoked to get er' done... thanks again Ben.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72952

BIZILL

duuuude!:)

Face

Congrats!

zingo

I'm glad you're enjoying the Sonicaps!

BAD ASP

zingo wrote: »

I'm glad you're enjoying the Sonicaps!

Thanks, But to tell the truth, I wouldn't really know a Sonicap from a Nightcap. Can you or another techno type explain (in reasonably simple terms) what is actually going on or better said what is the difference between the stock caps and the Sonicaps?

heiney9

BAD ASP wrote: »

Thanks, But to tell the truth, I wouldn't really know a Sonicap from a Nightcap. Can you or another techno type explain (in reasonably simple terms) what is actually going on or better said what is the difference between the stock caps and the Sonicaps?

Sonicaps are magic

jcaut

BAD ASP wrote: »

Thanks, But to tell the truth, I wouldn't really know a Sonicap from a Nightcap. Can you or another techno type explain (in reasonably simple terms) what is actually going on or better said what is the difference between the stock caps and the Sonicaps?

There ARE differences in types of capacitors, but I'd advise you not to dig much deeper into the "technical" side of it than that. You've discovered that they SOUND better and that's all that should really matter at this point.

BAD ASP

jcaut wrote: »

There ARE differences in types of capacitors, but I'd advise you not to dig much deeper into the "technical" side of it than that. You've discovered that they SOUND better and that's all that should really matter at this point.

Roger that!

ben62670

I'll be back in Ga Monday night. You can ship the XO's to arrive on Tuesday, and I'll get them done.
Thanks
Ben

BAD ASP

Lasareath wrote: »

Where are the resistors?

And what is that resistor doing stradling that 12uF cap?

when I reinstalled the boards I noticed that there were several resistors on the underneath side of the board. Why there is one stradling the cap... dunno!

BAD ASP

"Oh, Ok, they are underneath.

I just always seen people doing them the way I did mine as shown below."


You do beautiful work too. I'm not sure why Ben put them underneath, I can only imagine he has a comfort level with that approach. In any case I couldn't be happier with the new performance.

schwarcw

Between Darqueknight, Ben and Sal they have mastered the art! Nice work! Crossover mods are fun.

george daniel

very nice work,sir.

Polksaladanni

Wow! Bet that some dexterity for that nightmare. Excellentao! job for a serious crossover!!

Paul

DarqueKnight

BAD ASP wrote: »

...what is actually going on or better said what is the difference between the stock caps and the Sonicaps?

It is like the difference between a gravel road and a smooth asphalt road. Both roads will get you to your destination, but the smooth road will put less wear and tear on your vehicle.

Likewise, better components do less damage to a signal as it passes through.

Hobie1dog

Has anyone replaced all the internal speaker wiring with high grade "audiophile" stuff?

ben62670

Lasareath wrote: »

Oh, Ok, they are underneath.

I just always seen people doing them the way I did mine as shown below.

Hey Sal. Did you have to drill a hole to mount your cap that was standing vertical?
Thanks
Ben

ben62670

Thanks Sal.
Ben

Hobie1dog

I need ten posts to be able to respond to a pm

Hobie1dog

sorry

Hobie1dog

anyway, I still have an unanswered question above

george daniel

here is a start,,,IIRC,, someone did the wiring upgrade and I'm not sure of the results,,DK and F-1 would be a good resource

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69245&highlight=sda+internal+wiring

Hobie1dog

george daniel wrote: »

here is a start,,,IIRC,, someone did the wiring upgrade and I'm not sure of the results,,DK and F-1 would be a good resource

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69245&highlight=sda+internal+wiring

Great write-up, thanks for the link.

BAD ASP

I now have about 300 hours on the crossovers and I can confirm that the speakers have definitely shown additional improvements. I am no techie so I'll keep this simple and in layman's terms.

1. My initial observation was that the originals were fantastic to my ears. My oldest son is a bit of an audiophile too and he was impressed when I first got them set up. After the initial change from the original s2000 tweeters to the rdo-194's he noticed an improvement to the midrange and seemed to be mellower - less bright. I felt the same way. An overall significant improvement to the overall sound quality. There was no change to the soundstage perceptions.

2. Once Ben returned the XO's and they were installed I immediately noticed an improvement in all aspects; sound quality, soundstage width and soundstage depth. The overall quality of the sound showed more depth. We could hear subtle sounds that we hadn't noticed before, ie., resonance, breathing, guitar picks, string slides, more clearly defined hammerons and pulls on the guitars and drumstick lics. All of these additional sounds were always there but now were more identifiable. Maybe the best way for me to describe it is that the music has more of a live sound if you will. If the engineer who was mixing the music didn't want us to hear it then they would have engineered it out. Now with the new XO's there's a lot more music coming from the speakers.

3. Now that the crossovers have about 300 hours the speakers have evolved an all new presence, to me at least. Combined with the Sunfire amp pushing out 425wpc the soundstage is now the full width of our listening room (16'0") and projects out from the back wall significantly. Voices are in front and the drums are noticeably to the rear. Instruments are clearly definable across the stage. We pushed them up to about 105db's (RS sound meter) while sitting 12'0" in front and the sound just got deeper. It was extremely clean and loud but not muddled in any way. No way we could listen at that level for any time... it actually begins to hurt. But the sound quality is not compromised at all... crystal clear instrumentation and voicing.

4. As far as HT is concerned what can I say. I love these speakers for HT. Hearing small little background sounds like a small rock bouncing across the screen and foreground sounds traveling across the stage simultaneously is now far more accurate and detailed.
It may be blasphemy to the true audiophile to use these speakers in this venue but they perform brilliantly, at least to my ears.

I couldn't be happier now that this is done. Again thanks to Ben for helping me out. Thanks to DarqueKnight for starting this insanity and thanks to ya'll for keeping this board alive and fun to be part of.
To those going to PolkFest have a great time.

zingo

Nothing better than enjoying speakers more now then the day you bought them!

BAD ASP

zingo wrote: »

Nothing better than enjoying speakers more now then the day you bought them!

Roger that!!!

ben62670

Glad to hear. I'd like to thank Polk for giving us the diagrams to make this a fairly painless process. I know I have said it many times, but I will say it again. Polk CS is the bomb!

zingo

Ben, I believe that is, "Polk CS is da bomb!" And I completely agree. Never worked with better company than Polk's CS.

BAD ASP

It's been a few weeks now and I have to believe that the XO's are burned in by now. I would estimate there must be 400+ hours total on them. When not in use I had left them running continuously at about 65 db's since reinstalling the crossovers that Ben did for me.
My observations are that the sound has improved dramatically from the originals and noticeably since before burn in.
This is maybe the best proof to me:

I have a friend who competes on any level when it comes to men and their toys. Some might think that might be arrogance but he is far from arrogant, he does it because he can and he always does his homework. Suffice it to say he doesn't like it when we Polkies have speakers that are 25 years old and competes with some of the best gear out there. We had him over for a movie - Iron Man. His wife offhandidly remarked that while my speakers were huge (wife speak for fugly?) they sure filled up the room with sound. She was familiar with the 3.1's but hadn't yet been introduced to the 1.2's. She further commented on the fact that the sound was so balanced across the screen. All the while I can see my friend starting to do a bit of a burn. He was familiar with the 1.2's as he had heard them before the crossover update. I hadn't told him that I had the crossovers done and he was going to get the full effect. When the movie ended he did complement the sound but wanted to hear some music. He and I are old rockers so I put on some Stones, Moody Blues, Zep and moved into some Stevie Ray. To keep our wives interested we played some Queen, Fleetwood and Journey. Don't get me wrong I'll listen to all of it but I wanted my buddy to hear what is common to us both. He was blown away to tell you the truth. He is a big Klipsh guy, he has some Paladiums that he touts. He always says his mind. He was over the top talking about the soundstage,clarity and response. I am not sure if I would finally consider him a convert to The Dark Side (Polk) but I am pretty sure we have sent him on a quest to find something to compete with. Probably much to the dismay of his wife. I did tell him that he could sell his Paladiums, buy some 1.2tls and buy his wife something nice for Christmas with the change. He was quiet (man speak for Go F*** yourself). Man I love these beasts.