How important is it to keep L/R wires equal length?
Sumflow
Posts: 64
The distance to my left and right sides are not equal. How important is it to keep the length of wires the same on both sides?
In other words what is the theory here?
If one speaker is 15 feet from the Amp and the other is 25 feet. Should I keep use 25-foot lengths of wire on both sides?
In other words what is the theory here?
If one speaker is 15 feet from the Amp and the other is 25 feet. Should I keep use 25-foot lengths of wire on both sides?
"At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."
Enzo Ferrari
Enzo Ferrari
Post edited by Sumflow on
Comments
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Assuming you're using 14 gauge speaker wire, a length difference of 10 feet will give you a resistance difference of approximately 0.026 ohms.. less than 3 one-hundreths of an ohm greater resistance in the longer wire. 16 gauge wire would give you a difference of 0.042 ohms in 10 feet. Of course, an honestly lower resistance, 'better' speaker wire would most likely reduce those numbers.
A high quality 100 ohm resistor in a crossover network, say with 1% tolerance, can vary by as much as +/- 1.0 ohm. That means the difference between the two resistors from one network to the other could be as much as 2.0 ohms, regardless of wire length. That and various other such electrical differences more, MORE than swallow up any differences in speaker wire, by a factor of 100.
To get to 1.0 ohm greater resistance in the longer wire, your longer run would have to be about 385 feet LONGER, using 14 gauge wire. I think your stereo image will probably break down if your speakers are 385 feet apart.
Bottom line... despite (I'm assuming) shouts to the contrary from the cheap seats... don't worry about it. If you're talking about a longer wire due to the average house.. no big deal. My mains are on 10' and 16' wires.
I'd challenge anyone to even be able to measure the difference in the wire's resistance due to different lengths (short of high-tech measurement gear), let alone any difference in output from the speakers - even using a pure test-tone. -
Is this the general consensus does everyone agree?
Theoretically speaking, it is best to use all of your wires, cords, and cables in equal proportion for equal distribution of signal and power."At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."
Enzo Ferrari -
Obviously I don't agree. It might give some people the warm fuzzies to have their speakers on same-sized runs, but when you're talking differences of 5 or 10 feet.. hell, 15 or 20 feet.. it simply isn't an issue.
I'd be more concerned if you had long runs on small wire, say 18 gauge. Resistance of 18 ga wire is more than double that of 14 gauge. -
Yeah, what burd said.
But, if you are going to loose sleep over it, by all means, get em' the same length.Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
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Have to agree as well. BUT, some of us, knowing it doesn't make a darn difference still go to the trouble of making sure they are the same length. I would definitely not ever use different gauge for a given pair.
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On short runs, I doubt that guage even makes THAT much of a difference.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Rule of thumb: use the same speaker cable, same length regardless the distance from receiver/amp to speaker, just don't try to train or introduce your receiver some bad habits.
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Agree for short run it does not matter, but the argument should not be based on resistance only. For high frequency signals, Inductive reactance=2*3.1416*f*L, where f is the frequency, L the inductance in Henry, and the product is in ohms, may be more significant than the resistance. Likewise, you need to consider the capacitive reactance (=1/(2*3.1416*f*C) as well.
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all cabbles should be impedeanced matched. that means dont use 2 different gagues of wite and on your cabbles.
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Here's how I feel about it,
I believe that the front array should be of the same exact wire,and length.If for no other reason that it's exactly the same.I don't believe in adding anything that could degrade performance.Even if it is almost unmeasurable.Thats just me,I care alot about my sound and don't risk anything if I can help it.
But hey,as stated above.....10 feet extra....well I don't think it's a really big deal, but If it bothers you, then cut equal lengths,it doesn't hurt.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
For argument sake, the % difference between the 15 & 25 ft length scenario is twice that for the 30 and 40 ft length scenario. In the former case, the signal loss is less, but the difference in high frequency sound would theorectifically be greater than the latter case.
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The most obvious thing I thought that no one mentioned is that you can reuse the wires when you move if they are equal length.Originally posted by ATCVenom
I like everything equal
A long wire can always be cut shorter, but a short wire cannot me made long."At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."
Enzo Ferrari -
Originally posted by Sumflow
A long wire can always be cut shorter, but a short wire cannot me made long.[/FONT][/SIZE][/B] [/B]
Umm bubba...that is incorrect 100%...go to HD, and they have a thing that can join two wires into one, which by far makes it longer.....
IE:My dad remodeled, we had to move all his stuff over, so we extended all the surround wires by 4 feet....therefore we made them longer. It is quite simple...twist both wire, then put the cap over both wires and twist the cap around the two seperate ends. Works easyDamn you all, damn you all to hell.......
I promised myself
No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
Damn you all! - ATC -
two channel pair should be the same. rt-7 mains
rt-20p surounds
cs-400i front center
cs-350 ls rear center
2 energy take 5, efects
2- psw-650 , subs
1- 15" audiosource sub
lets all go to the next ces. -
What do the scientific boys have to say about this?Originally posted by MxStYlEpOlKmAn
twist both wire
Is it better to use a single wire, or as suggested above is it OK to twist two wires together to get optimum sound?.
"At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."
Enzo Ferrari -
Originally posted by Sumflow
What do the scientific boys have to say about this?
Is it better to use a single wire, or as suggested above is it OK to twist two wires together to get optimum sound?.
Quick, somebody delete this post. Anybody who actually cares about having matching lengths of wire might DIE after reading this.
To give the original poster piece of mind- I say just chill about the wires. I have an engineering degree and consider myself an audio nut, and I would stake money that you couldn't tell the difference. But many people go nuts over wire talks and you will hear other opinions. Unless "sum flow" refers to a huge flow of income, just get decent cables and save your money for more important things.
As far as twist connections go- I would just say NO (and that's from a liberal guy on wiring). That usually introduces significant resistance. If you must connect two wires at least solder them.
Other than the twist thing, a lot of this wire talk is hype. I can prove that there will be an electrical difference between the wires- but seriously, if you just use appropriate gauge wire for your length and power no one can possibly tell the difference. It is just that minor (and as someone pointed out previously, this is not the weak point). -
Originally posted by infinitiqx4
As far as twist connections go- I would just say NO (and that's from a liberal guy on wiring). That usually introduces significant resistance. If you must connect two wires at least solder them.
Ditto from another wire "libertarian".
Whatever our views on what constitues "good enough" wire, we are all searching for minimum resistance between amp and speaker. We only disagree on how low is low enough and what we are/ are not willing to pay to go lower, i.e., the value of lower.
Why invite more resistance with an added, and unnecessary, mid-wire connection?More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
Sorry to repeat but I could not resist pointing out the importance of thinking "impedance", not just "resistance". If resistance is the only concern, all you need is heavy gauge wires. If you want to minimize impedance, i.e. minimize signal loss due to capacitive leakage, and inductive reactance, then other design factors will come into play. Both capacitive and inductive effects are highly dependent on the fequency of the signal. Effect of frequency on resistance (e.g. skin effect) is much less, almost negligible for what we need. Whether we could hear the difference or not, expensive cables such as the monsters, should give you more accurate signal transmission, in terms of magnitude and phase, from the amp to the speakers.
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If you use the cheapest wire you can find with the flimsy interconnects supplied with your AV components, you run the risk of having to troubleshoot and replace your cables if you encounter adverse electromagnetic hum or other problems often attributable to cheap cables.
Do not coil your cables if they are too long! Cut them to length. Coiled wires create "induction": an extra current added to the one pumping the music from your loudspeakers. The result is unwanted noise."At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."
Enzo Ferrari -
So What??? Was this whole thread a quiz or are you just a fast learner?More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
No, that PINE APPLE EATIN **** asks these dumb arse questions, then recaps and restates in his own words what we said. Other words, he just asks questions to learn something common sense should of provided him.Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
I promised myself
No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
Damn you all! - ATC -
Originally posted by MxStYlEpOlKmAn
....that PINE APPLE EATIN **** ...
a four-bagger SID! More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb
"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD -
Originally posted by MxStYlEpOlKmAn
he just asks questions to learn something common sense should of provided him.
My man Sid, hits the nail on the head!!!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
