Finding Hidden Speaker Wire Behind Walls

tryrrthg

My boss had speaker wire run for an HT when his house was being built. Now he is finally getting around to putting an HT together but he doesn't know exactly where the wires are behind the drywall. He does have access to the ends of the wire that will be connected to the receiver. What is the best/easiest way for finding the speaker ends of the wire behind the walls?

Thanks!

George Grand

A small digging tool is what I'd recommend.

You have to do anything on your job to keep this guy from hurting himself with scissors all day long as well?

tryrrthg

Nah, we sit in front of non-threatening Excel spreadsheets all day.

ben62670

Tell him to contact the guys that buried the wires. They should not have been buried. How long has the work been done for?

tryrrthg

ben62670 wrote: »

Tell him to contact the guys that buried the wires. They should not have been buried. How long has the work been done for?

Couple years.

He called them and they told him how to go about finding them but he had to go buy something. My boss couldn't remember what it was called. I thought I'd ask to see if there was something simple he could do... He doesn't really want to go tearing up drywall, but I'm willing to bet he's going to end up tearing it up no matter what he does to find them.

bikezappa

Your boss must work at wall street.

We just need to bail him out with a new home.

Give him some sissors like George said and then you can get his job very soon.

tryrrthg

He's actually a pretty handy guy which is why he doesn't want to pay these jokers to come out and dig out the wires for him.

bikezappa

It sounds like he put an underground sprinkler piping system in the back yard and now wants to connect the watering heads but doesn't know where the pipes are.

treitz3

Why doesn't he just use the existing wires instead of digging them up? It's not that hard to figure out what wire is what, provided they set it up properly.

treitz3

Nevermind, I see that he has access to the receiver side, but not the speaker side. Start digging.

disneyjoe7

How about one of these

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2356554&cp=&sr=1&kw=metal+detector&origkw=metal+detector&parentPage=search

John30_30

Maybe they're exposed up in the attic. Probably not, tho.
The guy that built my house (for himself) 28 years ago at least hung the ends out of the drywall and rolled them up. I may get around to using that, finally.

Hawkeye

If either of you have access to an electonics type guy, ask him for a TDR. That is a Time Domain Refractometer. You attach it it to the exposed wires and send a signal down the line and it will tell you how many inches away the end of the wire is. You can then measure around the wall and get you very close to the end. Hopefully, any guys familiar with this device here will correct me on the exact procedure if I'm in error. The electronics guys at work use it all the time to find wires in the airplanes we fix.

Gordon

ntculenuff

there is such a tool that you can get it will make finding hidden wire much easier http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/Pro3000/Overview.htm i picked mine up at home depot. works great

Lowell_M

The 61-958 Ideal Circuit Tracer will get you within a half an inch of where the wire is in the wall. You could trace the path with a pencile..... But it will cost you about $1000. (It does a lot more than find speaker wire, but would be much easier to use than a tone&probe.)

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/test_measurement/circuit_analyzers/suretest_circuit_tracers.jsp

John30_30

ntculenuff wrote: »

there is such a tool that you can get it will make finding hidden wire much easier http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/Pro3000/Overview.htm i picked mine up at home depot. works great

There ya go. Only ever used them for phone lines. I didn't realize you could use a Fluke for speaker wire too.:o

disneyjoe7

If the wire is in the wall I don't see why my idea wouldn't work? I can't see how a tone'a would work if you don't know where the wire is now.

tryrrthg

ntculenuff wrote: »

there is such a tool that you can get it will make finding hidden wire much easier http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/Pro3000/Overview.htm i picked mine up at home depot. works great

This is getting closer to what he was trying to explain to me from what the installer told him. He was saying you connect something to the one end he has access to and then it sends some kind of signal/tone through the wire. Then you wave a (magic?) wand over the walls and it will tell you where the wire is behind the walls...

How does that thing work?

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

If the wire is in the wall I don't see why my idea wouldn't work? I can't see how a tone'a would work if you don't know where the wire is now.

The metal detector would pick up screws, nails, electrical wire, etc.

Lowell_M

tryrrthg wrote: »

This is getting closer to what he was trying to explain to me from what the installer told him. He was saying you connect something to the one end he has access to and then it sends some kind of signal/tone through the wire. Then you wave a (magic?) wand over the walls and it will tell you where the wire is behind the walls...

How does that thing work?

QUOTE]
A tone and probe is going to be a pain in the **** to use behind the wall on speaker wire.

He was actually talking about the gadget that I posted for you. It sends a signal down the wire and the "magic wand" looks for the signal. You can even use it to trace copper water lines....or anything metal in your walls, for that matter. They are mostly used for tracing electrical circuits through the wall so that you don't cut through a wire when doing a re-mod. On sales calls, our sales guys ( I work for IDEAL) get asked all the time how it works and most of them don't know. They literally tell people "it's magic".

ben62670

3 options

1-hire a pro with the right tools
2-get lucky
3-Make a big mess

tryrrthg

Yep, I think he's realizing that now. He said he found the construction pictures so he has an idea of where to start. He's going to start with a little hole and a coat hanger and see if he gets lucky.

ben62670

tryrrthg wrote: »

Yep, I think he's realizing that now. He said he found the construction pictures so he has an idea of where to start. He's going to start with a little hole and a coat hanger and see if he gets lucky.

Well I hope he can see the wire in those pics. Spend a little time knocking for studs can go a long way;)
Good luck.
Ben

treitz3

Do the wires run up in the attic? If so, you could possibly see where the lines drop down in between the studs. This will keep you within a foot or two of where the wires will be.

mmadden28

I agree on the Toner option. They're not expensive and readily available and any IT guy that handles your network at work should have a set-You might be able to just borrow it (if things are run well at the office then the thing should be sitting on a shlef getting dusty)-It certainly can't hurt. I never tried it on anything other than tel/network cabling, but it may work. Of course it would help to know an approximate area where the cables are as you need to be fairly close to the wires to detect the tones.

I have a (Fluke CableIQ) that will also do TDR for Cat 5/6, but I've never tried it on speaker cable-I'll bring mine home tonight to see if it will-I might try it on some Coax as well. The model I got is made for qualifying HT installs so it has the adapters on it for speakers and coax as well-so maybe... Hmmm.

But when all is said and done aside from tracing with a toner, looking in the basement or attic or hiring a pro-I'd rather run $1k of new speaker cable than spend $1k on a device that will likely only be used once. Ben how long can you braid that silver wire?

mmadden28

I'm still a bit baffled by the fact that he had cables run for HT, but that they weren't terminated and possibly just left blindly in the wall.

I would think that if the runs were meant for ease of install at construction time but for future termination, that either the cable would be left coiled above in the attic, or below in the basement waiting to be fished and terminated. Or they would alredy be run but left unterminated in an installed gangbox with a blank plate. There you go look for a blank plate on the walls.

mmadden28

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

How about one of these

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2356554&cp=&sr=1&kw=metal+detector&origkw=metal+detector&parentPage=search

I tried that before-the thing has a wide swath of detection and picks up rebar in the concrete, as well as every nail and screw, etc in the floors and walls. Definitaly best for outdoors.
On the other hand, this Zircon might also work---It says it will detect cables and it doesn't just say live AC wires (which detection is usually done by detecting the live wire only) This is actually a handheld metal detector. :cool:

ben62670

You don't want to detect a live AC wire, and poke it;)

tryrrthg

From what I've been told it's his basement, but not really. it's like a sunken room that has finished space, or an exterior wall, on all sides of it. so there is no access from basement/attic/crawlspace etc.

He said his brother had one of those metal detectors that works like a stud finder. he was going to try that also.

ntculenuff

it's like $90 at home depot use it for what you need and return it.
if you have and idea where the wires are connect the aligator clips to the exposed wire (stripped ends) press the button for a solid tone or an alternating tone walk over to where the wire might be use the wand to sniff it out around the area. you will here the tone it will be louder when your closest to the wire it is actually really simple

sorry it is a little blurry. cell phone

you'll be able to narrow it down to which studs the wire is between then when you cut your hole for the speaker you just reach in and grab it

mmadden28

ben62670 wrote: »

You don't want to detect a live AC wire, and poke it;)

Of course the zircon also alerts to a live wire as well. :cool:

treitz3

That Zircon is a piece of crap in my experience. Not recommended. Damn thing can't even find a stud half the time. I know, I own one.