RTA 11t crossover "upgrade" to tl wiring schematics are here!

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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited January 2003
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    The plastic deflector on the RTA 11tl's are called
    RTA BAFFLE WING I don't know if Polk still selling this part
    each RF1420-1 Reg. $6.00 club member price $4.80

    byteme, make sure when you upgrade yours you should have this too.
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  • Thewiz666
    Thewiz666 Posts: 13
    edited January 2003
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    What do those 'baffle wings' do? They've been on my 11TL's since I got them 12-13 years ago, and they're on my newly acquired 15TL's as well. I was searching for a post that may have explained about it but since I saw the posted pic, then I'll just ask here.

    Also, I stumbled into this post due to the title of the thread... is this only to guide older 11t owners into upgrading to a tl xover, or is there a newly modded version of the tl xover that I could benefit from? I read the posts, but they seemed to refer to past postings that I've been missing perhaps... Thanks for any info.
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited January 2003
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    Har,

    Thanks I'll have to order that up too when I get the new tweeters.

    Wiz,

    I posted in another thread about wanting to upgrade (eg. buy new) speakers. I posted a few options and the consensus was, keep the Polks I've got, the RTA11t's. A couple guys with the TL's said they like them better than the T's because of the upgraded tweeter. I inquired with Polk about doing a "plug and play" upgrade of the 11tl tweeter into my 11t's - which they said don't do because the crossover is different. So I asked if they sell the crossover or not - which they don't. I thought it was over at that point, however Jesse and Har talked me into getting the schematics for each of the crossovers and updating the 11t crossover to the 11tl. I got them and there are only a couple parts involved so I am now in the process of ordering the necessary resistors, capacitors and inductors. Rather than just replacing the necessary items to move from 11t to 11tl I'm replacing EVERYTHING on the crossover with better quality parts. I'm also upgrading the internal wiring to Cardas 15.5 and 20.5 gauge chassis wire and upgrading to the new patented Cardas CPBP binding posts. ( http://www.cardas.com/cgi-bin/main_content.cgi?area=OEM&pagestring2=Patented+Binding+Posts&pagestring=Patented+Binding+Posts&content_id=10&part_id=54 ) These are used in the Zu Druid, Merlin VSM, etc. It's basically "the ****" when it comes to binding posts.

    With the tweeters the whole deal will cost me about $250, but I should end up with damn near a brand new speaker. So the way I look at it, $250 is less than a new pair of LSi15's and these should end up sounding better too. Oh, and it's virtually transparent to my wife!!

    Parts are ordered and should be on their way shortly. Hopefully I'll be able to complete this before I go on vacation 2/08!!
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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited January 2003
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    byteme,

    Keep us posted, I can't wait for the results...

    Har
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited January 2003
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    Har,

    You and me both. Where are you and Jesse located? After all this the least I could do is have you both over for a beer or something!!

    Brian.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,801
    edited January 2003
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    Brian,

    As Har said, can't wait to see what you think. I'm in Maryland, where are you?

    Jesse
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited January 2003
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    Yeah, I love to sit down with you guys have some beer and
    listen to it.:)

    I owe also to Russ, for helping me getting my Monitor 7's and
    I don't forget that and Jesse too.

    BTW, I am in Toronto, Canada.

    Har
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited January 2003
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    I'm in Wisconsin. Once I get the goods I'll try and take pics as we go through the steps and maybe throw them on my website. I need to update it anyway because much of what I've got has changed!

    This is as it was 2 short months ago. Since I've upgraded cables from Kimber to Zu, upgraded power conditioning from Zerosurge to PS audio ultimate outlet, upgraded 2 channel preamp from the Denon receiver to Foreplay then to B&K Pro10MC and now to Sonic Frontiers SFL-1, moved from the Sherwood Cd player to Rega Planet '99 and now sold that and am waiting on Channel Islands VDA-1 and VAC-1!! Zu cable warmouth for ICs from mapleshade ultrathin, Zcable live and JPS labs ultraconductor. Oh, almost forgot! Sold the Toshiba SD4700 and bought a Panasonic RP82 and moved from bettercables ultra (older) component video to Zu cable Megular.

    http://webpages.charter.net/btreinen/our_home_theater.htm

    Definately time for an updated web page!
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  • Thewiz666
    Thewiz666 Posts: 13
    edited January 2003
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    Byteme,

    I appreciate the info and background in regards to it... My original set of 11t's had the tweeters blow in them back in the early-mid 90's and I was able to get a pair of 3000's as a replacement for no cost from my local dealer at the time. So what you're saying is that the 11t xover isn't good for using 3000 series tweeters then? I'm glad that I didn't use them for more than a couple of weeks after the replacement I guess. I had stumbled across a set of SDA-1B/C for $400 around that same time so I started using those instead. My 11t(l)'s have been sitting in my basement since then due to this.

    Do the 3000's available from Polk now have the same quality as the ones that came stock in the models of that era? I had read somewhere on here that the 3000's are in great demand, so I thought that maybe the ones available now kinda suck or something.
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited January 2003
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    Wiz,

    What the Polk techs told me is that the x-over in the TL was tweaked for the TL's tweeter and while I could use the TL tweeter in the T - it would be a kludge since they weren't designed for each other. As for the quality of the current tweeter - I can only assume it's comperable to the TL. To be clear, the TL x-over and the newer tweeter are designed to work together.
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  • Thewiz666
    Thewiz666 Posts: 13
    edited January 2003
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    Hmm, I may need to try that mod eventually when I get my HT up and going since my t's have the tl tweet in them now. Maybe I can just harvest the xovers out of the damaged set of 11tl's that I have at a friend's house. I know that they're stickered with BE-4100 or something like that since I looked at them some time ago. Will there be much of a sonic difference in using the stock TL xover compared to a modded one with the different parts?
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited January 2003
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    Wiz,

    You'd definately be able to harvest the 11tl x-overs out of the damaged ones. Should be part number BE-4100a (http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/service/models/modelpartslist.php3?model=rta). I can't (right now) comment on the sound with the modded x-overs, however, my guess is that the stock x-over didnt' cost >$100 each to make. Everything on it is getting upgraded to better quality so, in theory, it should sound better. Jesse or Har commented that another 11 series owner did such an upgrade and the improvement in sound was well worth it.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,801
    edited January 2003
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    Brian,

    Thanks for the offer to visit and if I ever get to West Bend I'll let you know. Posting pics of your upgrade would be cool, I'll look forward to them. You've got some real nice gear!

    Jesse
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,801
    edited January 2003
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    Wiz,

    The xovers from the damaged TL's will work just fine as a replacement in your T's, but what byteme is doing is going to out-perform the stock TL xovers. Are you planning on using the RTA's with the SDA's for your HT rig? If so, you will not have a good timbre match if you use the SL3000's in the RTA's. The SDA's use the SL2000's, so using the original SL2000's in the RTA's would be a better idea.

    Jesse
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited January 2003
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    OK, all parts orderd. The tech I spoke to was pretty jazzed about what I'm up to. We went over the schematic and he told me what he'd use - which (fortunately enough) is the same stuff I just ordered from Percyaudio. The total from Percy was $150 shipped and the two tweeters (which come with the baffle wings on them) were $96 since I'm a club polk member. $48 each instead of $60 and free second day air shipping!
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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited January 2003
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    byteme,

    I think I am interesred to mods my "11TL's" too.
    Please list all the new parts and breakdown them
    how much each items and email to me at har_navalta@hotmail.com

    Are going to change the internal wirings too? I have seen some
    out there that have a PURE Silver wires that you can use as internal wirings, don't remember that site though... but I will dig it again...


    Har
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited January 2003
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    Har,

    I'll email this to you as well but just for reference I'll post it here too.

    2 - 1.5 Ohm Mills MRA-12 wirewound resistor 12W (3.95 each)
    2 - 12 uF 630V Solen metallized polyprop capacitor (5.95 each)
    2 - 16 uF 250V SCR/Axon metallized polyprop cap (5.25 each)
    2 - 33 uF 250V SCR/Axon metallized polyprop cap (8.95 each)
    8 - feet 20.5ga Cardas tweeter wire, 4' each black & red (1.50/ft)
    10 - feet 15.5ga Cardas mid wire, 5' each K&W (1.65/ft)
    2 - 0.30 mH 16ga Solo CFAC (7.25 each)
    1 - solder wick (4.95)
    1 - .25 lb 16ga Wonder Solder (11.00)
    1 - Stereo pair Cardas CPBP long bare copper post ($35)

    Add 2% to the total for Paypal and $6.00 for shipping the final total was $150.99. Of course you might not need the solder wick or Wonder solder. The only other addition that Mr. Percy recommended that I didn't do was add Deflex panels on the back of the inside of the speakers. Figured it would be REALLY hard to do since the openings are so small. Oh, and he also recommended Auricaps, but they were >$30 each which would have more than tripled the cost of the project.

    You know, in reviewing this I missed one thing - the 1.55mH inductor for the mid drivers section of the crossover. Damn. Although now that I look, there is nothing on Percy's site with a 1.55mH value so I don't know what you'd put there and when I sent him the schematic of the crossover he didn't comment on this either. UPDATE ON THIS - If you look closely at the crossover it's actually "impossible" to upgrade this part, because the wire winding of the inductor is actaully done AROUND the cup in the back of the speaker - one end is connected to the (-) speaker terminal and the other to the crossover. I did not know this!

    There you go!

    Forgot to mention the place to get this stuff is www.percyaudio.com - email responses can be a little slow but they are cheaper than anyone I could find, ship quickly and have just about everything.

    For completeness I'm also adding the following:

    SL2500/SL3000 replacement part = RD0198-1 $48 each (I think) from Polk if you tell them you are a Club Polk member - 2nd day air free shipping too!! $60 each for non-members.

    Replacement for SL2000 tweeter (which I didn't use - obviously) is the BD0103-C.
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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited January 2003
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    byteme,

    Thank you for the info. of all the parts, list and amounts.

    This is the most informative thread to this forum especially RTA 11t owners...:)

    Har
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,801
    edited January 2003
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    No need to change the inductors, the stock ones are fine.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • stubby
    stubby Posts: 723
    edited January 2003
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    Perhaps if you get bored sometime we could have a few brews and listen to those RTA's. I have yet to hear a pair and I'm just down the road in dreaded Miami County.

    Stubby
    SRS 3.1TL
    Harman Kardon Citation 5.1
    Anthem AVM2



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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited January 2003
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    stubby,

    If you love your 1.2tL's, you're gonna love these babies...:p they
    are wonderfully awesome...especially those SL3000's on it;)

    If you come across them they match perfectly to the big daddy's
    you have:)

    Har
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  • stubby
    stubby Posts: 723
    edited January 2003
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    Yeah, I still love 'em. Even more now with this new to me Denon CD player. Even bigger stage with more depth. Picked up a HDCD of Pictures At An Exhibition and it really brings those mommas to life.

    Stubby
    SRS 3.1TL
    Harman Kardon Citation 5.1
    Anthem AVM2



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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited February 2003
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    I will add the Specs of RTA 11TL's and also the 15TL's... courtesy
    of Ken S. at Polk Audio.

    The RTA 11TL speaker uses a single 1" dome tweeter, two 6.5" drivers and two
    8" bass radiators. The frequency response is from 22 Hz to 26 kHz with the
    -3dB limits of 36 Hz to 25 kHz power handling is 250 watts/channel the
    impedance is compatible with 8 ohm outputs and the efficiency is 90 dB.


    The RTA 15TL speaker uses a single 1" dome tweeter, four 6.5" drivers and
    two 10" bass radiators. The frequency response is from 20 Hz to 26 kHz with
    the -3dB limits of 35 Hz to 25 kHz power handling is 250 Watts/channel the
    impedance is compatible with 8 ohm outputs and the efficiency is 90 dB.


    byteme,

    Whats going now... its been a while I didn't hear anything
    from you.

    Har
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited February 2003
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    Har,

    I'm starting a new thread today!
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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited February 2003
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    byteme,

    You know what... keep it in one thread, much better...so you don't
    miss anything...

    I'm sure some of us here following this thread.

    Har
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited February 2003
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    Link to final assembly thread -

    http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7846 -

    I'll post here too though for those following the thread - good idea Har!

    Well,

    It has finally begun and with any luck it will be completed tonight. Here's a link to the pictures thus far, click on a thumbnail to see the bigger pictures! - http://webpages.charter.net/btreinen/speaker_tweak.htm

    The biggest pain in the butt so far has been drilling the holes for the new Cardas posts. The stock holes are a bit to close together to be able to just widen them for the copper posts. However, as with most things, the first one took a lot more time than the second! It actually went very smoothly once I figured out to use the new cardas plate for a template and drill small pilot holes where things need to go. The plastic is soft and pliable enough to be able to just twist the drill around in there and get the hole wide enough.

    The next biggest pain was that damn glue. Fortunately, if you have a wide enough flathead screwdriver it comes up pretty easy.

    I'll be interested to see how the bigger caps and inductors will fit on top of the board. Pictures will be posted as soon as I can. I'll be out of the country from 2/08-2/15 so if I don't get things posted tonight it'll have to wait until I get back.
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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited February 2003
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    byteme,

    The new tweeter doesn't look like the SL3000's it looks to
    me, that is the SL2500?

    SL2500 and SL3000 look a like...keep it in mind.

    Please clarify this...


    Har
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited February 2003
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    Har,

    They aren't making any of the three tweeters (SL2000, 2500 or 3000) any longer, the replacement for the SL2500 & 3000 is what you see in the picture.

    Model numbers are:

    SL2500 & 3000 replacement - RD0198-1
    SL2000 Replacement - BD0103-C

    Oh, and by the way, the baffle is out of stock and no longer being made as well. It didn't come on the new tweeter so it looks like I'm SOL on that unless I want to fabricate one and glue it on.
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  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited February 2003
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    byteme,

    The baffle is not that very special material. It is only an ordinary
    plastic.

    If you need information like dimension of the baffle, let me
    know.

    Har
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  • byteme
    byteme Posts: 73
    edited February 2003
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    Har,

    Sure that would be great. If you could get me the dimensions and the approximate thickness of the material - oh, and the approximate angle of deflection too! I'm guessing I could just find a piece of plastic that thick, cut it to size and then put a bend in it. Shouldn't be too hard!
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