XPA-2 Protect mode

mmadden28

Hopefully if I actually get time tonight and I can stay awake long enough-I'll try to reproduce this on my XPA-5-I just haven't had the time to finish my testing...

Anybody else out there have a pair of LSi9s, an iPod and an XPA-2, and the Carrie song, willing to try this? :rolleyes:

Early B.

mmadden28 wrote: »

Hopefully if I actually get time tonight and I can stay awake long enough-I'll try to reproduce this on my XPA-5-I just haven't had the time to finish my testing...

Anybody else out there have a pair of LSi9s, an iPod and an XPA-2, and the Carrie song, willing to try this? :rolleyes:

What have the folks at Emotiva said about this issue?

mmadden28

Early B. wrote: »

What have the folks at Emotiva said about this issue?

Nothing yet, I haven't had the chance to call Lonnie back-I really wanted to check the other things first (other XPA-5, etc) so I could just discuss all in one call and not pester him with little bits of info here and there.
Well, the wife is off getting her toes done and the kids are roaming around the house causing havok-hmmm no time like the present to do some testing

mmadden28

Tonights testing:
Using the same CD Player, song, Dodd ELP (same volume) into the XPA-5, and into the RTi12's--No Fault!!

Using the same CD Player, song, Dodd ELP (same volume) into the XPA-5, and into the LSi9's--No Fault!!

Tried using the Onkyo 805 as a pre, but since its such a different animal (not just a simple volume control), so no way for me to do a true comparison-but it did not fault! In the Onk the speakers are set SMALL (xo 80), and thus would'nt output a full range signal-I really didn't want to mess up my settings-I think I have the test results I need.

LessisNevermore

mmadden28 wrote: »

Tonights testing:
Using the same CD Player, song, Dodd ELP (same volume) into the XPA-5, and into the RTi12's--No Fault!!

Using the same CD Player, song, Dodd ELP (same volume) into the XPA-5, and into the LSi9's--No Fault!!

Tried using the Onkyo 805 as a pre, but since its such a different animal (not just a simple volume control), so no way for me to do a true comparison-but it did not fault! In the Onk the speakers are set SMALL (xo 80), and thus would'nt output a full range signal-I really didn't want to mess up my settings-I think I have the test results I need.

It sure sounds to me like there is a faulty component inside the XPA-2. If your fault condition is repeatable with the same piece of music, in the same spot of the song, yeah something's not right.

I have had my XPA-5 go into protect a few times with my 9's, but it was due to a "less than snug" IC. I put a gentle squeeze on the end of the cable, and no issues since.

I do remember (on the Emotiva board) someone having problems using silver wires, but it was more a shielding issue of the twisted IC's, more than the content of the wire. I know you swapped IC's, but that might be something to consider, as well.

It seems the XPA's might be a bit finicky with IC's.

Good luck, I'm confident Emotiva will make it right, if the amp is the problem.

mmadden28

OK did all my testing and spoke to Lonnie again today-based on the results there likely isn't anything wrong with any of the equipment and is likely just a combination of the freq of the music being played, the volume at which its played, the low impedance speakers (with an even lower imp. dip at certain frequencies), and the protection circuitry in the XPA-2 doing its designed job.

Why would the setup work fine on the XPA-5? It doesn't have the same current providing capacity as the XPA-2 and won't hit that critical current level that would trip the protection circuitry.

Why do I think the LSi9's didn't sound too loud when the XPA-2 goes into protect? Its likely my listening level needs to be higher than others-or it could be that I am used to the loudness of the RTi-12s, which are a more eff. speaker. I don't know, just a thought. Purely speculation and self observation there.

Well I have two options now (outside of leaving a 1/4ohm resistor in series)-I can send it in to get checked out, or I can leave well enough alone, and just be careful with volume.
Well OK, three---I could change my speakers .

Lonnie said he would be more than happy to take it and run it through its courses. His aim is my complete satisfaction with the amp. And maybe perhaps tweak the protection circuit a bit to let it go a tad bit farther. :cool::cool::cool:

I'll do both (not change the speakers-at least not right now)--For now I'm going to table sending it in since I would have to deal with shipping and shipping costs. So I am going to finish getting my 2 channel setup finished (is it ever?)and start enjoying some music. I am just too into it right now to take a vacation from the music. Later when I have somne downtime or will not be able to listen, I'll send it in to get a full workup (if for nothing else but to give me that warm and fuzzy feeling). Other than that issue, i am very happy so far with all the other aspects of my system, well at least as happy as I can be at the moment. I am sure it can get better with better cables, cleaner power, different tubes, but for now I'll enjoy.

If any brave soul out there has the chance, and has an LSI9, XPA-2 setup, try running an ipod, with the same song at almost max, into it and see if you can get it into protect mode. Remember I eliminated the other compnents as the cause so a simple easy to reproduce recipe assuming my stuff is 100% healthy.

Thanks for all the feedback.

mmadden28

mmadden28 wrote: »

...
Well I have two options now (outside of leaving a 1/4ohm resistor in series)-I can send it in to get checked out, or I can leave well enough alone, and just be careful with volume.
Well OK, three---I could change my speakers .

Actually I could also run my setup with the speakers set to small and use a sub, when using a CDP or other source. I do plan to eventually run with a sub and that may resolve my issue from ever happening again anyway since it was the lower frequencies that pushed the setup beyond its limits.. And it might actually allow more power to go to the higher freqs for yet more improvement---Hmmm :rolleyes:


-Madden

Early B.

Yo Mad --

What are you thinking? Now you got a good reason to upgrade your speakers, so do it! If not, at least jump on Ben's crossover mod for the 9's.

Face

Makes sense. Upgrade your speakers because your amp can't handle them.

jerryj12

I certainty don't know half as much about this as you guys, but I do own an XPa-2. The speakers Ben speaks of( Lsi 15's ), I melted the Xo's with that very amp. I have never even seen the red lights do what yours have done. Just my 2 cents.

WilliamM2

Well I have two options now (outside of leaving a 1/4ohm resistor in series)-I can send it in to get checked out, or I can leave well enough alone, and just be careful with volume.
Well OK, three---I could change my speakers .

You have four options. The 4th is to return that defective amp and get a refund. There is no reason it should shut down at anything less than earsplitting levels.

mmadden28

Early B. wrote: »

Yo Mad --

What are you thinking? Now you got a good reason to upgrade your speakers, so do it! If not, at least jump on Ben's crossover mod for the 9's.

Already on it--Have the parts on order.

A reason? Yeah-I can see explaining that to the wife-"Hey honey, you know that amp I just bought that you don't know about? Yeah, well I need to buy new speakers because the other 'extra speakers' are not up to the task. You don't mind right honeybunches?" Yeah that'll go over real well.

mmadden28

WilliamM2 wrote: »

You have four options. The 4th is to return that defective amp and get a refund. There is no reason it should shut down at anything less than earsplitting levels.

I plan to send it in to get checked out, but just not right now-I want to get setup first and wait for some downtime. It's not a rush with a 5 year warranty :cool: and it still functions--now if it were a doorstop...it'd be there next week. Now if it starts to give me crap while listing to Smetana or George Winston, well then we'll have a problem..:o

Until I get it in for diags, I won't know for sure, it could be a bad amp-or it could be the combination (amp, speakers, song)--sure would like to know if anybody else can try it. Heck it could even be an issue with the LSi9s.

mmadden28

Face wrote: »

Makes sense. Upgrade your speakers because your amp can't handle them.

Isn't that how it works here?

mmadden28

jerryj12 wrote: »

I certainty don't know half as much about this as you guys, but I do own an XPa-2. The speakers Ben speaks of( Lsi 15's ), I melted the Xo's with that very amp. I have never even seen the red lights do what yours have done. Just my 2 cents.

I followed what Lonnie was explaining to me, but just barely--he said (something like this) there are several protection mechanisms in the amp. one monitors the speaker output, and one monitors the AC power input (or somewhere in the AC/DC power input area). If the current draw (in either area) exceeds a predefined level, it goes into protect mode. If a current spke is caused by a very low impedance load occurs, it will usually pass it on by if its a short term / dynamic thing, but if that output circuit detects a spike at the same time as the input power surges too high and for too long, the amp will go into protect mode. Or something like that-I wasn't going to get into the engineering behind it adn ask him to make it super clear to me.

mmadden28

WilliamM2 wrote: »

That's odd. The amps I had with meters would go higher with a 4 ohm load. Which makes sense, since they are measuring output.

I double checked with Lonnie on the meter thing to confirm I quoted him right-last thing I want to do is spread falsities. The meters are calibrated for an 8 ohm load. When the meters hit into the red, you're just about at max amp output capacity.
If you put a 4 ohm load on, max capacity is actually about 2/3 to 3/4 of the max poss meter reading. So you could hit the amps max rated output long before hitting the red (not talking protect mode here). It a logarithmic thing-hence why its not halved.

Face

mmadden28 wrote: »

Isn't that how it works here?

It's usually the opposite.

mmadden28

Face wrote: »

It's usually the opposite.

I knew dat I was just being sarcastic. (or whatever the proper word is)

mikeflores

I am researching the XPA-2 and ran across this thread. How are you liking your XPA-2 and XPA-5? Have you had any other problems? Thanks.

mmadden28

mikeflores wrote: »

I am researching the XPA-2 and ran across this thread. How are you liking your XPA-2 and XPA-5? Have you had any other problems? Thanks.

So far I am very happy with them. I haven't had any other issues with them and they run cool-so no complaints. My HT rig has never sounded better.

I've considered buying another XPA-2 during this sale, to run each bridged as monoblocks, but, while I haven't seriously looked into it yet, something tells me when running bridged they won't handle the 4 (and less) ohm load of the LSi9's-I think running bridged they will only handle the 8ohm loads--but I'm not sure so dont' quote me on that. Anyway my reason for holding out is I may jump on a couple XPA-1 mono's when they come out. But I'm in no rush at this point-I'm happy with them for now.

As far as the XPA-2 issue I had/have with this thread--I haven't had the opportunity to send it in for a checkup yet, but I still intend to do so just for piece of mind or to get the protection circuit tuned to be a bit less sensitive and perhaps to have the meters calibrated for my 4 ohm load (they are calibrated for an 8 ohm load).

Good luck in your search.

P.S. Don't discount Emotiva because of the unfortunate recent customer service issue that's the topic of recent discussion. Every company has issues to overcome. They are a good company with good customer service in general.

W WALDECKER

Face wrote: »

Makes sense. Upgrade your speakers because your amp can't handle them.

That sounds completely logical to me :cool: