What does Polk filtered mean?

SumflowSumflow Posts: 64
What does Polk filtered mean?

The
Polk subwoofer outlet port label suggests that you to put the Amp outlet wires into it.

What exactly is the purpose of
Polk labels on Subwoofers anyway?

To be consistent with
Polk labeling we would need to put a filtered line into a Polk filtered port. Or an unfiltered line into a Polk unfiltered port.

Does
Polk really want us to put the Amp’s filtered cable into the Subwoofers filtered labeled port?

Does it mean the port is filtered so that you have to put an unfiltered signal into it?

Or does it mean it is unfiltered so you have to put a filtered source into it?

"At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."

Enzo Ferrari
Post edited by Sumflow on
«1

Comments

  • scottvampscottvamp Posts: 3,297
    edited January 2003
    Once again WOW!!!!

    Filtered simple means that the crossover in the subwoofer is active.
    Unfiltered means that the subwoofer's internal crossover is NOT active.
    Just plug in your RCA plug from your LFE (subwoofer) preout on the reciever to the unfiltered input on the sub. Because that signal from your rerciever is already at a certain crossover point.
    Now take a deep breath and give it a shot. Good Luck man:)
    PS3 and HD Front Projection, life is good. Too bad Blu-Ray and the PS3 are already obsolete.....:rolleyes:
  • Micah CohenMicah Cohen Ruler of the gnome universe Posts: 2,020
    edited January 2003
    Okay, I'm back. It was weekend, what could I do?

    The filtered/non-filtered thing is a hot-button, confusing issue. But really it is as simple as scottvamp laid out. You just have to know what goes where and why. Here's some (slightly abridged) text from a Polk manual that may help:

    - THE CASE AGAINST SUB-OUT/LFE JACKS
    In some cases, the worst place to connect your subwoofer is the SUB-OUT/LFE JACK. Why? Some receivers and processors do not send a signal to the SUB-OUT JACK when they are in the STEREO mode. That means when you listen to music in stereo, you lose the benefit of the subwoofer! Additionally, in the vast majority of receivers and processors, the SUB-OUT/LFE JACK is LOW-PASS FILTERED. That means that there is a filter (sometimes mistakenly referred to as a crossover) that blocks sounds ABOVE a given frequency from getting out of the receiver's SUB-OUT/LFE JACK. Why is that bad? Because your powered subwoofer ALSO has a built-in LOW-PASS FILTER; and when the two filters combine, their interaction can cause irregularities in the frequency response and reduce the fidelity of your system. Not to mention that the variable LOW-PASS FILTER in your powered subwoofer is one of the most useful tools for adjusting your subwoofer to "blend" better with the rest of your system. By using a pre-filtered signal, you are defeating this excellent and useful feature. Unless you have high-end components (some of which allow you to manipulate their low-pass filters), or are certain that your component has an UNFILTERED LFE, it's a good idea to ignore the SUB-OUT/LFE JACK of your electronics. You will get better performance, and not miss any bass, when you just trust us and let go.

    How do you tell whether or not a jack is filtered? You use a simple test (again from a manual):

    HOW TO TELL IF YOUR SUB-OUT/LFE JACK IS FILTERED OR UNFILTERED
    Use the "bass management" or "speaker setup" function of your multi-channel receiver or digital processor to select the subwoofer as ON or YES. Connect the SUB-OUT or LFE OUT jack of your electronics to the LFE INPUT of your subwoofer. Disconnect the other speakers in the system so that all you can hear is the subwoofer. Play music or a movie with vocal content. If you can hear and understand the words, your SUB-OUT JACK is NOT FILTERED. If all you can hear is bass, and the vocals are barely or not at all audible, your SUB-OUT JACK IS FILTERED.

    I hope this helps. It would also help if we knew what kind of equipment you're using and which Polk speakers you're using.

    Monday morning!

    Micah
    [email protected]

    "There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
  • TonyPTXTonyPTX Posts: 545
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by scottvamp
    Just plug in your RCA plug from your LFE (subwoofer) preout on the reciever to the unfiltered input on the sub. Because that signal from your rerciever is already at a certain crossover point.
    Now take a deep breath and give it a shot. Good Luck man:)

    Think his issue is that his sub doesn't have an LFE input. Thus he's forced to use the line level inputs.
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....
  • scottvampscottvamp Posts: 3,297
    edited January 2003
    Tony - maybe but most likely not.
    Strange guy so far - only post in bold blue and red. Must take forever.
    And ask tons of questions in tangents. Twilight Zone man!!!:eek:
    PS3 and HD Front Projection, life is good. Too bad Blu-Ray and the PS3 are already obsolete.....:rolleyes:
  • phuzphuz Posts: 2,413
    edited January 2003
    *BSOD*
  • scottvampscottvamp Posts: 3,297
    edited January 2003
    Also because POLK is very pro on idiot proofing setup of spreakers (which is a good thing). I quess I should stop promoting LFE installs all the time.

    Sorry Micah my bad. Thanks for bringing the new info to our attention.
    Also
    Okay, I'm back. It was weekend, what could I do?
    I don't know LAPTOP or HOME COMPUTER. I mean come on you work for POLK - wwwwwwell then again I have seen your HT setup. :lol: :eek:
    PS3 and HD Front Projection, life is good. Too bad Blu-Ray and the PS3 are already obsolete.....:rolleyes:
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by scottvamp
    I mean come on you work for POLK - wwwwwwell then again I have seen your HT setup. :lol: :eek:

    YES!, and Scott LEAPS off the top turnbuckle!!! POW!

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,638
    edited January 2003
    Micah, man, don't forget to loosen the tourniquet every 10 minutes.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • SumflowSumflow Posts: 64
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by TonyPTX “What I really have trouble with is taking Polk advice on speakers when there advice on setup makes so little sense.”

    “you're doing your own analysis of what you "think" is right (i.e. using your knowledge of speaker systems and applying it here.)
    Tony I am using Polk’s own knowledge as to what Polk says is right. Take a look at my posts. If Polk can go inputs to inputs, why don’t you explain how?
    "how to assemble build a computer" or "rebuild a 4 bbl Holley carb," you would be a little less resistant to questioning the validity or accuracy of the instructions.
    Boys do you really believe that I would settle for the company line. The last time I played with anything as primitive as a carburetor I was running, improving and modifying Weber’s. If you are unaware Weber emulsified the fuel before delivering it to the intake manifold. Ferrari for example lost 25hp when they upgraded to fuel injection from stock Weber’s. Yes if the manual was not to be trusted, and the components were labeled wrong. I would find someone who actually knows something and hook it up for maximum performance.

    How can you set something up by the book, when the book’s language is inconsistent with the usual way English is normally used?
    Originally posted by scottvamp Just plug in your RCA plug from your LFE (subwoofer) preout on the receiver to the unfiltered input on the sub.
    Thanks scottvamp it sounds great. But just because the car starts it does not mean it is going to win any races. One of the things I am getting at is how do you plug A into B when Polk stuff is consistently mislabeled?
    Originally posted by Micah You just have to know what goes where and why. Here's some (slightly abridged) text from a Polk manual that may help.
    Aloha Micah, nice to hear from you today. Look Micah it is Mr. Polk’s manual that has caused all of this confusion. You cannot refer to the source to clear up the confusion. Is there anyone there who can answer the legitimate questions I have asked in my other posts?

    Why can’t you please send the hard questions up to someone in Mr. Polk’s office that does not write his manuals or lick his boot and explain how Polk’s manual is supposed to make sense?
    You will get better performance, and not miss any bass, when you just trust us and let go.
    I am sure this is true in every case!
    I hope this helps. It would also help if we knew what kind of equipment you're using and which Polk speakers you're using.
    Gee sorry about that, I thought I made it clear in my first unanswered post.

    One more observation I would like to make. If I am at home with wireless broadband, I would scour this site to try to find the answers hidden wherever they are. But I am on the road. This current 56k takes so long to load a page that searching is not an option.

    I have taken some time, asked a few questions. My Polk sound is OK. But I am not impressed with Polk, the owners manual or the help I am not getting from this discussion group.
    "At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."

    Enzo Ferrari
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,418
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by Sumflow
    I have taken some time, asked a few questions. My Polk sound is OK. But I am not impressed with Polk, the owners manual or the help I am not getting from this discussion group

    Friendly suggestion....check attitude at door and please stop posting in colors, it's like using caps, just not cool.

    Try contacting Ken in customer service, [email protected] He's very good.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • phuzphuz Posts: 2,413
    edited January 2003
    Someone please scan these pages and post them for us. I think someone isn't quite understanding something in the manual.
  • TonyPTXTonyPTX Posts: 545
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by phuz
    Someone please scan these pages and post them for us. I think someone isn't quite understanding something in the manual.

    Seriously though Phuz, the diagrams/figures in the PSW303/404 manual are wrong which is the point that I think Sumflow is trying to make (or get someone to own up to). Which may also explain why the manual for the 303/404 is not available online.

    If you read the instructions for Polks recommended setup (i.e. the WORDS), they are correct. However, if you're one of those folks who skip the "written words" and go straight to the meat of the manual, the pictures/figures, the figure that corresponds with the "word instructions" is not accurate. IN the picture they show the speaker wiring setup as speaker line level out of the receiver to the speaker line level out on the subwoofer (NOT the speaker line level in on the subwoofer as common sense would have you hook it up). They then have wires from the "Speaker line Level In on the Subwoofer" running to the Front L/R sats. An honest mistake that a drafter made when they sketched the illustration for the manual.

    I guess that Sumflow feels that if they incorrectly labeled the figures, then "what else is incorrectly labeled" is his logic.

    Am I right here Sumflow? Honestly, I'd trust the labeling on back of the sub before I'd trust the manual.

    PS. I can't scan the 303/404 manual for you since I don't have a scanner. Maybe I can take a dig pic of it tonight and post it.
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....
  • SumflowSumflow Posts: 64
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by F1nut
    please stop posting in colors, it's like using caps, just not cool.
    I'll bet anything that you still use the default "Blue," in Windows on your computer. This reminds me of what Paul Simon said about this very comment...

    If you took all the girls I knew
    When I was single
    And brought them all together
    For one night
    I know they'd never match
    My sweet imagination
    Everything looks worse
    In black and white

    Kodachrome
    They give us those nice bright colors
    They give us the greens of summers
    Makes you think all the world's
    A sunny day
    I got a Nikon camera
    I love to a photograph
    So mama don't take my Kodachrome away
    "At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."

    Enzo Ferrari
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,418
    edited January 2003
    Nope, you bet wrong! Try again. :rolleyes:
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • phuzphuz Posts: 2,413
    edited January 2003
    Thanks for the explanation TonyPTX. :)
  • TonyPTXTonyPTX Posts: 545
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by phuz
    Someone please scan these pages and post them for us. I think someone isn't quite understanding something in the manual.

    See photos below:
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....
  • TonyPTXTonyPTX Posts: 545
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by TonyPTX


    See photos below:
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....
  • phuzphuz Posts: 2,413
    edited January 2003
    Tony I think you can only post one photo in each post.

    You don't have to go through the trouble of posting them if you don't want to. With two people saying the same thing I have to believe it. ;)
  • TonyPTXTonyPTX Posts: 545
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by TonyPTX
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,418
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by Sumflow
    They give us those nice bright colors
    They give us the greens of summers

    :lol:
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • TonyPTXTonyPTX Posts: 545
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by F1nut


    :lol:

    You have honestly HiJack3d this thread.....so much for attempting to make some ground on this.

    HOWEVER...the pict is still funny as hell :lol:
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,418
    edited January 2003
    Tony,

    I did try to help Sumflow with his questions, but he seems to have a little attitude thing. Anyway, sorry for the hijacking.

    The pic is truly in "nice bright colors"....:D
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • SumflowSumflow Posts: 64
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by TonyPTX ..mistake that a drafter made when they sketched the illustration for the manual.


    “Draftsperson innocent!”
    The drafts person cannot make a mistake as you suggest. The artist works for someone else. They are told what to draw. The artist is not a free agent. They turn in there work. The supervisor accepts it and sends them back to the drawing board.

    "Schematics,"
    After Polk accepts the drawing, it has to go through the same quality control as schematics and other Polk technical drawings used in production. If the supervisor was not trained correctly, this does not fall on the hapless artist. It does however reflect on the reputation of the company.

    Actually it is more important that the stuff they feed the public be correct because mistakes made inside are not as obvious.


    “The Emperors new clothes!”
    Polk is in an interesting position. People spend a good chunk of a weeks take home pay on a set of Home Theater speakers. They have a vested interest in believing in what they bought.

    "Acoustical Advantage!"
    Pokies have no way to compare these speakers against any others except in sound rooms often manned by Polk commissioned sales persons. People who place Polk products to there acoustical advantage against similar products.


    "Out of phase Mono!"
    I am sure we could go into the average first time buyers home, put in a Mono DVD. Play one side out of phase. After spending all that money, these people would say it was the best sound they had ever heard, and probably be right. How would they know?

    "Movie theater Sound!"
    I have been in Movie theaters coast to coast. I lived in Hollywood, been to openings in Westwood. There is no consistency in Movie theater sound. A lot depends on where you sit in the theater and how many people are in there soaking up the sound. I think the theater owners that are not blind are for sure deaf.

    "Press always positive!"
    Magazine testers and critics are always given top stuff. If something ever did turn out faulty, they would give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt and be given another test product. Besides speaker makers have been know to pay for advertising. Big business is not in the habit of antagonizing future sponsors.

    "Home Theater CD!"
    Maybe Home Theater is just for Movie sounds. When I visit sound rooms in Circuit City, the Good Guys, and countless stores across America. I wonder why sales people are not embarrassed when they play Rock & Roll CD’s on Home Theater Systems. They don’t sound anything like a recording studio blasting through studio monitors.
    I guess that Sumflow feels that if they incorrectly labeled the figures, then "what else is incorrectly labeled" is his logic.

    Thanks Tony, Again you are very perceptive and get right to the heart of the matter. If Polk’s drawings are erroneous on how to use them, then the drawings could just as easily be amiss on how to make them.

    When a person reads the Polk Manuel with half a brain they will see no inconsistently and still have a 50% chance of being correct. Nevertheless, anyone that uses the whole brain will be stuck with the inconsistently. Of course this is assuming that the manufacture is marketing to people who know how to read. If they do not this will never come up. Do you think other Pokies will understand this or do I have to explain to them about how the halves of the human brain work?
    Am I right here Sumflow? Honestly, I'd trust the labeling on back of the sub before I'd trust the manual.

    Tony people who spend a weeks take home pay deserve to do more than just Guess!!

    What about all the other people who buy Polk products.

    The bottom line is
    "Polk sold us defective merchandise!" When Polk lets shoddy stuff get through on the outside, it implies shoddy stuff on the inside.
    "At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."

    Enzo Ferrari
  • TonyPTXTonyPTX Posts: 545
    edited January 2003
    I give up....

    You can lead a horse to water....
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....
  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    Honestly if you know how to hook it up don't worry about it, some of the biggest companies out there will have type O's in the manual and also have amended manuals when you receive them in the form of a pull out inserted into the manual. Geez get over it!! This deosnt mean Polk is **** up speakers they made a graphical mistake in the book,
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    here is a amended pull out for the 404 i just bought, notice the wire level input diagram, corrected...
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • SumflowSumflow Posts: 64
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by faster100 "amended pull out,"
    Thanks allot. If the Amp has a working sub out in all modes. Would you still recommend the spaghetti wiring technique?

    Why?

    The Polk web site says
    "Resist all temptation to use the subwoofer output jack-please."

    Why?
    some of the biggest companies out there..
    Just because they do it does not make it right.

    The Polk website says
    maybe those big electronics companies are just not paying any attention to the speaker business.

    In the case of the PWS303 there is no amended pull out. The products were shipped by Mr Polk and his agents as defective. There is no explaniation on the web site. A person with less persistence than me could take over a week getting an answer off of this users forum.

    You still have not shown that there is anyway consumers can tell if the hardware part of the product contains omissions and defects.

    Do you still have your Enron shares?
    "At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."

    Enzo Ferrari
  • Ron-PRon-P Spaceman Spiff Posts: 8,511
    edited January 2003
    This thread is pure comedy. :lol:


    Peace Out~:D
    If...
    Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
    Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited January 2003
    Somebody call the **** WHAAAAAmbulance.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,418
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by Sumflow

    You still have not shown that there is anyway consumers can tell if the hardware part of the product contains omissions and defects.

    Sumflow, if you see this.....then you have omissions and defects.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

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