Krell Components

smglbrthsmglbrth Posts: 1,239
edited January 2003 in 2 Channel Audio
Does anyone have any experience/opinions on Krell equipment? I'm not looking to upgrade right now, in the future, but I am looking at the KAV line, STEREO ONLY of course.
Their equipment looks pretty interesting, not to mention pricey. I have viewed this line and I was impressed by the looks, size, and oomph, if you will.
If anyone has any imput for this line or Krell itself I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks!!:cool:
Post edited by smglbrth on
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Comments

  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited January 2003
    Sure.

    It would help if you had specific questions; in general, I have nothing but good things to say about Krell. Currently own 3 of their amps [KAV-150a, FPB200c, and FPB300c]. Since I'm selling the 200c, why don't you make me an offer?

    I've listened pretty extensively to the KRC-3 and KAV-250p preamps.

    Krell as a company is fantastic.

    If you look on the web, you're going to read a bunch of posts that say "Krell is bright, grainy, and sucks. Made my ears bleed." This is a sure indication that the author never listened to Krell components in a properly setup system, if they listened at all.

    Krell is the opposite of bright and grainy.
  • smglbrthsmglbrth Posts: 1,239
    edited January 2003
    You are correct in your assumptions about the reviews.
    I pretty much was just wondering about personal experience, how well they performed and if anyone really liked Krell. I don't personally know anyone who owns Krell equipment!
    Thanks for the offer on the FPB 200c. I checked into that model and all I have to say is, WOW!!!!!!!!!!! I suppose it's weighs close to 100lbs!! I can't buy anything at this point in time like I said before, thanks for the offer though. My wife would probably be anything but happy about it, if you know what I mean! At least, right now.:D
    Thanks for your imput!!
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited January 2003
    Ever since I had the Krell power amps in my systems, I stopped searching for other power amps, let's put it that way.

    Sorry about the wife thing. When I initially decided to bi-amp, I asked my wife what she thought about me buying another amp, and mentioned that I was thinking about buying a Sunfire. I will love her to the grave for her reply:

    "Sunfire just sounds cheesy. Why don't you buy another Krell?"


    The only peculiar thing about Krell: they like lots of current, as in their own dedicated circuit. They perform *significantly* better if well-fed.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,323
    edited January 2003
    I've read some of the same things about Krell, my demos with them have been very very nice.

    It continues to amaze me how some folks, after a 15 or 20 minute demo on a completely unfamiliar rig can all of a sudden become instant experts on the relative merits of a particular product.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,976
    edited January 2003
    I gotta agree with r/w here,
    Krell is as bold as this will sound.....The King of all amps.They don't have an equal.They stand alone.

    Krell isn't for everyone,as always it's best to go listen,compare,and do a price to value ratio for your needs.
    Krell has no limitations as to what it can drive.It drives ALL speakers to full potental.Ribbons static,whatever.
    My opnion of Krell is short is the holly grail of purity,clarity,power,dynamic range.If you looked in my book of audio,Krell would define all in being the last word in sound quality.

    I gotta ask what your planning on building with Krell?
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • joe logstonjoe logston Posts: 882
    edited January 2003
    mantis i feel the same way about krell amps there the best of the best, some times there to good , because of the software and recording abnormalities the krell amp brings them out to the fullest, a lot of soft sounding tube amps cover the abnormalities up with distortion. tube & vinel go togetter well. as the software grts better the krell gets better.
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,976
    edited January 2003
    WIth my time at Soundex,I got alot of experience with Krells products.I didn't care to carry or move them,but setting them up and listening was amazing everytime.They powered every speaker in the store to there full potential.I saw one of there massive power supplies,it looked like it could power a city block.
    One cool thing I saw go was a Krell 600 for theater crap out an entire wing of a multi million dollar beach house.We where setting up a Theater with Krell and Wilson audio.Dude the dynamic power those amps have for theater is unreal.We where running EPI pod racer scene and I swore I spelled the fumes.The amp shut off the wing of the house.The home owner smiled and said that was the manlest thing he had ever seen.He had have the electrician come in and rework the fuse panel.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited January 2003
    that the Krell amps aren't THX certified.

    Seems like that would make them somehow inferior for home theater, doesn't it?

    Oh, by the way: the last time you smelled pod fuel you posted about it here . Did the amps grow between telling, or have you really done that many ultra-theater installs that are non-THX certified?

    :D
  • smglbrthsmglbrth Posts: 1,239
    edited January 2003
    Uh oh...., boy did I open a whole can of worms here........

    RLW - When I told my wife what your wife said about the "Sunfire" amp she smiled and said the same thing, but that didn't mean she was willing to budge, yet.......

    Mantis - WOW....I've never exactly heard that kind of a "review" from someone about amplifiers before. "King of all amps, they have no equal". What would I build with this kind of amplification? Well....., from what you and RLW have described, pretty much anything I want to and drive anything I want to. Granted, if I have a 60 amp service just for amplification! :lol:

    I know what everyone means about the "hearing everything" bit when it comes to power (and clean power at that). When I first got into separates I couldn't believe how terrible my older music sounded. I didn't remember it sounding that bad, but it was, and it is. Makes a whole world of difference when you get a decent recording, which is not too hard to find as long as you stick to Telarc and Chesky.

    Thanks for all your input fellas. In the future, hopefully not that far off, Krell will be at the top of my list for a listen/purchase.

    "Manly power", now that's what I've been missing..........:D
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by smglbrth
    Uh oh...., boy did I open a whole can of worms here........

    Granted, if I have a 60 amp service just for amplification!

    That would probably be fine. Feed 'em well, and they'll treat you right.

    Your wife sounds like a fine lady! I fully understand the "budge" thing. If I had my way, I'd be selling the 200c, buying another 300c and keeping the new sub in place...but now wasn't the time to push it...and there's no way you can sneak a Krell amp into your rack when she's not around!
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,323
    edited January 2003
    You know, I gotta think that if I was the customer and the installer pushed my gear to the point of causing damage, I doubt I would be a very happy customer. Just my thought.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • weavercrweavercr Posts: 289
    edited January 2003
    I owned a KSA 80 for many years. Great AMP. Even though it was only rated for 80 watts at 8 ohm, it doulbed in power all the way to 1 ohm. Had asboultly no problem driving the Dalhquist DQ-10s. I wish I could afford another one. It was a very neutral amp.

    I agree with Mantis on moving it around since it weighted in at a whopping 85 lbs.
  • joe logstonjoe logston Posts: 882
    edited January 2003
    i was going to buy a krell amp & pre-amp but just could not afford them , got aragon insted.
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
  • rskarvanrskarvan Banned Posts: 2,456
    edited January 2003
    My Polk 3.1TL's are fed by a Krell KAV250A (with a KAV250P preamp).

    The weak link in my system by far is the Polk SRS speakers.

    Polk pulled me into mid-fi. Krell will pull me into Hi-Fi.
    If only I could afford a set of Thiel 3.6's to match up with my Krell's.

    I think you buy a lot with Krell.
    Yes, it is expensive.
    This is what you get:
    1. Tremendous re-sale value. Buy used an you will never take a loss if you choose to sell.
    2. Krell equipment just doesn't break - ever.
    3. Very clean sound. Krell is known for their "bass-slam".
    4. Everybody is right - Krell has no equal.
    I spoke to the owner of odysseyaudio (Harry Kloss) and he even said that his equipment was no equal for Krell.

    Krell utilizes a proprietary transistor design that Motorola builds for them. That is why they have no equal. The transisotrs are very powerful, fast, and accurate - setting a benchmark.

    Krell's don't sound good. They just sound accurate. All you will hear in your system is the source material and the speakers. Krell's are - in one word - TRANSPARENT.

    If you want a warm sound, buy a tube system.
    If you want great imaging... buy sda.
    If you want a powerful, clean, accurate amp... buy Krell.
  • wangotango68wangotango68 Guest Posts: 1,056
    edited January 2003
    ron you sound like a krell commercial.

    scott:cool:
  • rskarvanrskarvan Banned Posts: 2,456
    edited January 2003
    Ouch.... you are right.

    But, the guy from odyssey audio did tip his hat out of respect for Krell. That was rather impressive.

    Krell used is a great value though. They hardly depreciate at all once the used value is set. And, Krell used is as good as krell new.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,323
    edited January 2003
    One might also say the same about, Levinson, Jeff Rowland, Bryston, Halcron and a myriad of other amp makers as well.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • smglbrthsmglbrth Posts: 1,239
    edited January 2003
    Ok Troy, I won't ignore you anymore.

    Your comments have been, well, cordial, yet cool as well, temperature wise, toward Krell amplification.

    Since I'm neutral on the subject of Krell, having had no prior experience with them, what do you think would make better amplification?

    I get the feeling that the price is not justified in your mind but the quality is there. Maybe you feel that there are better options and values?

    By the way, I couldn't agree with you more on blowing someone elses newly built electrical up, unless it was the customer who was running the volume control!! :lol: (No offense Mantis!!)
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,323
    edited January 2003
    No, I have nothing against Krell. My demos with them have been great. Of course, I feel pretty unqualified about talking about my rig, let alone gear that I've heard intermittently.

    My point is that there are few people here with enough experience with that type of gear to make the statement (with any credibility) that any amp is the end all be all and those that do, I don't think would make such a statement.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,976
    edited January 2003
    OK..............
    lets start here........shaw we,
    that the Krell amps aren't THX certified
    So what exactly is your point here r/w?The customer turned a 2 channel system into a home theater, then upgraded it.He already owned Krell.And yes it was the 300 not the 600,no it didn't grow my bad.Forgive me for not remembering the correct model number.The rest of the home theater amps where KAV class.Center and rears ran off of it.The 300 only powered the Wilson Watt puppies.
    But THX and Krell?Yes Krell Home Theater Products are THX CERTIFIED.Inferior??BY whom??Me?I never said any of the sort.
    Oh, by the way: the last time you smelled pod fuel you posted about it here . Did the amps grow between telling, or have you really done that many ultra-theater installs that are non-THX certified?
    And your point is what?When I worked for Soundex,Krell theater was often.I felt my post could help explain the power needs of Krell amps.The guy had a single 20 amp circuit,it didn't hold.The breaker was of older design from what I remember.A split thing or something.I don't know.
    TroyD as usual,
    You know, I gotta think that if I was the customer and the installer pushed my gear to the point of causing damage, I doubt I would be a very happy customer. Just my thought
    And whats your point?Now I as an installer go into peoples houses and abuse there systems???You know this for a fact?The customer didn't ramp the volume up to where he likes to listen?The dynamic power of the Krell has nothing to do with anything?whats your point man?
    My point is that there are few people here with enough experience with that type of gear to make the statement (with any credibility) that any amp is the end all be all and those that do, I don't think would make such a statement.
    Names?Your referring to me.I'm the one who said it.And yes I mean it.There is no amp company that exceeds Krell.NONE.I can BOLDLY make my statement and mean it.KRELL IS THE BE ALL END ALL IN AMPS.WHO IS BETTER...............?This is my opnion......I never heard anything better driving ALL kinds of speakers at any price.Stress the word ALL........
    This is how I feel.And I do have enough experience with Krell to say so.I worked with Krell on a day to day basis.Put in alot of it,many demoing hours in the store on and off the clock.What more do you want?Why do you feel the need to insult my credibility every chance you can?I am who I am.No more no less.Sorry if what I do for a living insults you ro whatever it does to you.
    So if I'm under qualified to talk about Krell,Where does that leave you?
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,323
    edited January 2003
    All I'm saying is that if I had someone install HT gear and ended up needing to call an electrician, yes, I'd be pissed nor do I think that blowing fuses is cool but that is MY opinion.

    I also stand by my previous statement. You can't make the case that empirically Krell is any better than another brand. Personal preference? Sure. But to say as a matter of fact that Krell is the best. No, I don't think that it holds water regardless of WHO says it.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,976
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by TroyD
    All I'm saying is that if I had someone install HT gear and ended up needing to call an electrician, yes, I'd be pissed.

    I also stand by my previous statement. You can't make the case that empirically Krell is any better than another brand. Personal preference? Sure. But to say as a matter of fact that Krell is the best. No, I don't think that it holds water regardless of WHO says it.

    BDT
    You know what Troy?many many many many o did I say many customers need to call an electrician in in order to get there home theater to work.Alot of time we need a deadicated 20 amp circuit for the gear room,Or an outlet up the wall for a Plasma TV,dude pissed never comes up.That customer thought it was the coolest thing he ever saw.He felt his Krell where manly...it's a guy thing........It put a smile on my face,if you heard how powerfull the Krell was,maybe you would smile 2.
    Well you go with your statement...stand ,sit down,row a boat,I don't give a smack what you do with it.
    I also stand by how I feel about Krell,I will feel that way untill I hear and experience something better in my opnion.Stop reading my words as fact,I have an opnion like everyone else.BE ALL END ALL KRELL IS.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,976
    edited January 2003
    Funny you must feel something since your willing to save for 6 months or more to get into Krell.You did tell me that once.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,323
    edited January 2003
    Well, apparently the train missed the station in this conversation so I'm going to bow out of it.
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,976
    edited January 2003
    I'm gonna do the same.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited January 2003
    chill for a sec. If you want me to take you seriously, then don't throw a post out and "end" the conversation.

    I apologize if my post seemed too confrontational and threatening to you.

    Krell FPB series are not THX certified.

    You say you like FPB's; you also advocate THX. You say both of these things quite vocally.

    I'm not dissing Krell; I've never dissed Krell. I'm not dissing THX; I've never dissed THX. In fact, I own and enjoy both Krell and THX certified products.

    I am trying to figure out - from you - what you think THX certification really means. Obviously, ultra theaters use amps/speakers which are not THX certified. And obviously [I think] those ultra theaters sound pretty good.

    So, master, tell me: why should I worry about THX if these ultra theaters don't?

    That's a serious question which deserves a serious answer.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,323
    edited January 2003
    A question springs to mind, if you are installing a system (be it computers or HT or whatever) wouldn't you first ensure that you have the electrical capability to support the project? I'm going to assume that you would. So, it would seem to me (regardless of cool factor) negligent.

    Again, my point is, not that I don't like Krell. I do. I'm interested in how it compares and why it is superior to, say, Levinson, Rowland (and other amps in that class) and so forth. I'm asking because I want to know, not because I'm being a smartass.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited January 2003
    Troy,

    I asked my friend, who owns a high-end AV salon about this. He showed me the planning phase they go through for a big HT project. It inlcludes: HVAC specification; Electrical Specification; Lighting Specification; Complete Blueprints and cabling diagrams.

    If the customer wants big Krell amps, the electrical specification is taken straight from the Krell manual: each amp receives a dedicated circuit. He told me that he often gets into arguments with electricians who don't want to install the circuits - and he gives them no choice [either do it or walk without pay].

    I know when I bought my gear, he stressed the importance of dedicated circuits to me.

    When I design and build computer data centers, you'd better believe that I specify AC circuitry. Down to the amount of runtime the equipment will have from battery backup before an standby generator comes online. We even specify where devices are to be plugged in to balance the legs and minimize drain on the battery backup.

    As far as Krell being superior to Levinson, Rowland, etc: that's subjective - beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I'd love to sit down with you someday, have all the aforementioned products in a room, and figure it out for ourselves.

    Of course, we'd probably disagree at the end of the day, but that's part of the nature of the beast.

  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,323
    edited January 2003
    Hey, but there is nothing wrong with disagreeing. If we all agreed on everything, life would be boring, no?

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • stubbystubby Posts: 724
    edited January 2003
    According to the October 2002 Stereophile, the Halcro dm58 is the best amplifier........ever. So there.

    Stubby
    SRS 3.1TL
    Harman Kardon Citation 5.1
    Anthem AVM2



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