Emotiva amp with LSi15

mdschlayer

So I've seen reviews and comments about Emotiva gear, and how great the bang for buck is. But looking at the specs, specifically for the new XPA-2 amplifier, it doesn't seem like it would keep up with gear from Parasound, Outlaw, Rotel, and others. The wattage is rated @1KHz instead of 20-20, and the damping factor at 8 ohms is only 200. I doubt this amp would control my LSi15's very well, even though the power and head room is probably enough.

Has anyone done a direct comparison with the Emotiva power amps versus other popular brands with the LSi series?

SBrown712

I have the LPA-1 with 15s and it sounds great to me. Check their forum, call them if you want. Their customer service is excellent. They will hook you up with someone that can answer your questions. Worse case, you order one and aren't happy, you have 30 days to return it.

engtaz

Dann is a stand up guy. I have listen to that amp an came away impressed.

engtaz

Early B.

mdschlayer wrote: »

So I've seen reviews and comments about Emotiva gear, and how great the bang for buck is. But looking at the specs, specifically for the new XPA-2 amplifier, it doesn't seem like it would keep up with gear from Parasound, Outlaw, Rotel, and others. The wattage is rated @1KHz instead of 20-20, and the damping factor at 8 ohms is only 200. I doubt this amp would control my LSi15's very well, even though the power and head room is probably enough.

Are you kidding? The XPA-2 will pump 500 wpc into the 15's. Show me a comparably priced NIB Rotel, Outlaw, or Parasound that can do that.

dkg999

The skeptical side of me wants to know where they cut the corners to be able to offer the performance they claim at the price point they are at? It may all be legit, and the greatest thing since someone decided to offer pre-sliced bread for sale, but inquiring minds want to know

obieone

+1! I didn't know they were cheaper than Outlaw. Literally 1/2 the price for a 5 ch. w/ same spec.'s???

WilliamM2

It's simple really. Emotiva manufactures their own amps in China, where Outlaw purchases theirs from a manufacturer. So Emotiva only has one company putting any markup on their product, where Outlaw has two companies making a profit off theirs. It's also very likely that Emotiva is operating on a smaller margin.

If you look at the components in either amp, you will see that amps aren't that expensive to produce, it's really a pretty simple circuit.

ctrulock

Tell Krell about the cheap/simple circuit please. I keep begging the wife to let me pull the trigger on a nice Krell on Audiogon-hehe!

Early B.

dkg999 wrote: »

The skeptical side of me wants to know where they cut the corners to be able to offer the performance they claim at the price point they are at? It may all be legit, and the greatest thing since someone decided to offer pre-sliced bread for sale, but inquiring minds want to know

It's no mystery. My wife and I went shopping at a furniture outlet today and she wondered why the prices were so low. I was like, "Well, it's an outlet, the prices are supposed to be low." Same with Emotiva -- if you're buying direct from the manufacturer, you'd expect cheaper prices, often substantially cheaper.

WilliamM2 wrote: »

It's simple really. Emotiva manufactures their own amps in China, where Outlaw purchases theirs from a manufacturer. So Emotiva only has one company putting any markup on their product, where Outlaw has two companies making a profit off theirs. It's also very likely that Emotiva is operating on a smaller margin.

Yep. I'll also add that Emotiva's parent company designs and manufactures audio gear for several major audio companies, so they have tremendous cost savings due to economies of scale to pass along to the customer.

ctrulock

I was joking about the cheap/simple remark lol. Emotiva stuff is tip top imo. Buddy of mine has the 5 chanell beast amp. Very heavy, and sounds amazing on movies. Since I am a 2 channel guy was thinking about a nice Krell integrated any thoughts? Are Krell int amps good? I like that they state specs that can double, double,double.... to 1 ohm.

iskandam

If you need a multichannel amp for LSi's get the MPS-2 and don't look back. I used to have its predecessor the MPS-1 and it really opened up the LSi's to levels I never thought possible with my system. Works equally great for both music and HT. Since I only have a 5.1 system I used the remaining 2 channels to bi-amp my LSi15s with excellent results.

However upgraditis set in and I sold the MPS-1 to try out the XPA-5. Now I wish I hadn't done that

mdschlayer

Early B. wrote: »

Are you kidding? The XPA-2 will pump 500 wpc into the 15's. Show me a comparably priced NIB Rotel, Outlaw, or Parasound that can do that.

I realize the 500 wpc is enough for the 15's, but that is rated at 1KHz, not 20-20 like Rotel, Outlaw, Parasound, Krell, etc. So I'd estimate the Emotiva somewhere around 400 wpc. But that is still plenty.
I'm concerned about the THD % and damping factor. That's where the competition is better, and probably is where the extra cost is.

There's no question they are offering a lot of features for low cost, but I'm trying to rationalize the sound quality comparison to others versus the extra cost.
Is there a 30% price difference for 10% sound improvement. Or is it more like 1-to-1; 30% price difference for 30% sound improvement.

I'd like to see a review directly comparing Emotiva and the competition in terms of sound quality.

MikeC78

Maybe someone can correct me...

I always believed that the sound quality usually comes from the Pre and not so much the amp. The amp(cut and dry) basically just "amplifies" the sound, being good or crap. Crap in = Crap out, vise versa.

cfrizz

Most of it is beyond our hearing range anyway, so it's not something that I worry about.

mightymouse

Very valid points.

If people want to start saying that these differences are imperceptible, then why don't we all just start buying pro amps. According to their logic, amps are amps, they are all the same. And pro amps are considerably more powerful and cheaper than these emotiva amps.

And by the way, who is the parent company of emotiva?

mdschlayer wrote: »

I realize the 500 wpc is enough for the 15's, but that is rated at 1KHz, not 20-20 like Rotel, Outlaw, Parasound, Krell, etc. So I'd estimate the Emotiva somewhere around 400 wpc. But that is still plenty.
I'm concerned about the THD % and damping factor. That's where the competition is better, and probably is where the extra cost is.

There's no question they are offering a lot of features for low cost, but I'm trying to rationalize the sound quality comparison to others versus the extra cost.
Is there a 30% price difference for 10% sound improvement. Or is it more like 1-to-1; 30% price difference for 30% sound improvement.

I'd like to see a review directly comparing Emotiva and the competition in terms of sound quality.

Gaara

mightymouse wrote: »

Very valid points.

If people want to start saying that these differences are imperceptible, then why don't we all just start buying pro amps. According to their logic, amps are amps, they are all the same. And pro amps are considerably more powerful and cheaper than these emotiva amps.

And by the way, who is the parent company of emotiva?

A lot of people do have this mindset, that all properly performing amps sound the same, similar to cables. There is a $10k reward if you can hear differences in a dbx test. Check AVS lots of threads about it back in the day, most criticizing it and saying they would pass, but none actually attempting.

You could get a NHT Power2, if you like specs it does 400wpc into a 4ohm load with a damping factor of 2000 and sells for $699. Plus it runs cold.

I thought Emotiva was it's own separate company now, formerly part of AV123?

Face

MikeC78 wrote: »

Maybe someone can correct me...

I always believed that the sound quality usually comes from the Pre and not so much the amp. The amp(cut and dry) basically just "amplifies" the sound, being good or crap. Crap in = Crap out, vise versa.

A have a few amps that sound very different from each other due to the fact that one has autoformers and one doesn't. So yes, amps can sound different.

MikeC78

I'm quit sure amps can sound different from one or another(not arguing that point)... I just believe the biggest factor would be the source that is used. Of course it would be a combination of the equipment, but what would you say would be the biggest determining factor in sound quality?

Face

I agree, I also believe the source the most important. After that, gets too complicated to put it in quantitative terms since cables, preamps, amps, and speakers can still ruin the sound.

brijenjas

mdschlayer wrote: »

I realize the 500 wpc is enough for the 15's, but that is rated at 1KHz, not 20-20 like Rotel, Outlaw, Parasound, Krell, etc.

Quote from Lonnie at Emotiva...
"All of the amps are tested and rated full bandwidth (20-20Khz). The 1Khz referrence is just the normal way of stating it, but all of the amps will produce full power across the band. Also the THD and S/N were tested across the band as well."

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=1868&page=2#22257

mdschlayer

brijenjas wrote: »

Quote from Lonnie at Emotiva...
"All of the amps are tested and rated full bandwidth (20-20Khz). The 1Khz referrence is just the normal way of stating it, but all of the amps will produce full power across the band. Also the THD and S/N were tested across the band as well."

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=1868&page=2#22257

I have seen that thread, and am still skeptical. Of course the amp will produce full power across the band, the question is how much.
I guess the only way to settle my reservations about this brand is to buy and try for 30 days.
I'll be comparing to a Bryston amp, so I don't expect it to be in the same class.

SBrown712

mdschlayer,
Sounds to me like you have already made up your mind that the Emotiva is an inferior amp, "I don't expect it to be in the same class". Why would you bother to get one expecting it to lose the comparison? Reading your posts makes me think that even if the Emotiva was as good as or better that the Bryston it would still lose.

jerryj12

I have the XPA-2 and the LSi15's sounded fantastic until I smoked the crossovers in the LSi's. No need to fear tho Ben is overhauling them now.:D
Making them bigger, better, and stronger than before....;)
All kidding aside, I love my Emotiva XPA-2.

mdschlayer

jerryj12 wrote: »

I have the XPA-2 and the LSi15's sounded fantastic until I smoked the crossovers in the LSi's. No need to fear tho Ben is overhauling them now.:D
Making them bigger, better, and stronger than before....;)
All kidding aside, I love my Emotiva XPA-2.

What caused the crossovers to fail? Too much DC?

heiney9

MikeC78 wrote: »

I'm quit sure amps can sound different from one or another(not arguing that point)... I just believe the biggest factor would be the source that is used. Of course it would be a combination of the equipment, but what would you say would be the biggest determining factor in sound quality?

Mike,

You need to come up for one our Rockford get togethers. The last time we met we had about 5 different amps. Using the same pre, source, cables, etc. there was a very noticeable difference in amps. It was not hard to hear at all. Talk to Dave or Doug or Aaron and we all heard immediate differences, some good some not so good. The amp has a HUGE influence on the final output. Perhaps not any more influence than other components like the pre or source but equal nonetheless. As jaded as I am, I even heard a substantial difference in each amplifier without much effort.

H9

Here's the link to our last meet in Feb

Sami

In my experience, amps make the most difference in a system after speakers. Until recently I had not heard much difference in preamps but now I have. Source can alter the sound as well if you use analog outputs, although it's minor differences compared to amps.

heiney9

Sami wrote: »

In my experience, amps make the most difference in a system after speakers. Until recently I had not heard much difference in preamps but now I have. Source can alter the sound as well if you use analog outputs, although it's minor differences compared to amps.

I have to respectfully disagree a little bit. In my experience after the speakers the source has made the most difference, the amp and pre-amp are almost tied with the edge going to the preamp having made a difference, then cables.

So to recap

Speakers-especially proper placement
Source
Preamp
Amp-very close tie with above
Cables

That's my take on it after 20+ years in this hobby. Also remember SYNERGY has more to do with it than any singular piece of equipment.

YMMV,

H9

Sami

Well, after thinking about it, I have to agree. Source is very important, and I made the assumption it going to be a CD which is not always the case. Vinyl is going to sound different than CD, not to mention cassette or mp3.

Hawkeye

Since it appears to me that room treatments are not worth it to a large majority of posters here, I won't go further on that subject.

In that vein, I believe that speakers are the most important piece to achieving good SQ. While system synergy is vital, if your speaker choice and positioning are not capable of delivering accurate sound across the entire spectrum, anything you add or subtract to the rig is partially lost. For example, we purchase a pre which is known for a warm presentation which is what we want in this example. If your speaks are known for being bright, what do you gain? A slight reduction in brightness yet it still is not as warm as we'd like. Why not start with a speaker that gives the SQ we desire instead of a speak that is so so and tailor the gear around it.

I always keep in mind it is the music I'm listening to and not the equipment. In my opinion, speakers are the last link in the chain, so I start there and work back.

Gordon

Sami

Hawkeye wrote: »

Since it appears to me that room treatments are not worth it to a large majority of posters here, I won't go further on that subject.

Room plays a very large part of how the system sounds. More than the electronics, no doubt. Whether that was part of the discussion, I don't know.

Hawkeye

MikeC78 wrote: »

I'm quit sure amps can sound different from one or another(not arguing that point)... I just believe the biggest factor would be the source that is used. Of course it would be a combination of the equipment, but what would you say would be the biggest determining factor in sound quality?

Mike asked the above question. People, including myself, do not/did not consider the room as a "real" piece of equipment so ignore it, concentrating instead on the latest and greatest electronic piece.

Gordon