Report On My Ported DX12-4 Subs Death......

only126db
only126db Posts: 157
edited April 2009 in Car Audio & Electronics
They are still alive and kicking:D

Just thought the non believers would like to know....

I will report back every once and awhile to keep you up on their life span...:D

The birth of the ported DX's came about on approximately 5/16/08 .....:p
Post edited by only126db on
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  • eloplayspolo
    eloplayspolo Posts: 1,117
    edited July 2008
    cant wait!..... tard
    2013 Toyota Prius
    Audible Physics 3 Way: H6MB, AR3-A, AR2.0
    Image Dynamics iDMax 12" D2v4
    (2) Alpine PDX-V9 Bridged, Alpine PDX-M12 (500w Mid-Bass, 200w Mid, 200w Tweet, 1200w Sub)
    Mosconi 6to8 v8
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  • only126db
    only126db Posts: 157
    edited July 2008
    eloplayspolo wrote: »
    I cant wait!.....To port my speakers but I dont know how ....cause I'm a tard and will only do what I'm told!!!

    Dont be so hard on yourself....

    U will learn that you dont have to follow what people tell you, you can experiment and it does work out sometimes...
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  • 1996blackmax
    1996blackmax Posts: 2,436
    edited July 2008
    What is the big deal here?
    Alpine: CDA-7949
    Alpine: PXA-H600
    Alpine: CHA-S624, KCA-420i, KCA-410C
    Rainbow: CS 265 Profi Phase Plug / SL 165
    ARC Audio: 4150-XXK / 1500v1-XXK
    JL Audio: 10W6v2 (x2)
    KnuKonceptz
    Second Skin
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited July 2008
    1996blackmax wrote: »
    What is the big deal here?

    I dunno dude. Apparently a rivalry came about between these two at some point. Im not real sure why or when but it is entertaining so I just enjoy the show.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • eloplayspolo
    eloplayspolo Posts: 1,117
    edited July 2008
    rivalry? no - hes just a schmuck with too much time on his hands
    2013 Toyota Prius
    Audible Physics 3 Way: H6MB, AR3-A, AR2.0
    Image Dynamics iDMax 12" D2v4
    (2) Alpine PDX-V9 Bridged, Alpine PDX-M12 (500w Mid-Bass, 200w Mid, 200w Tweet, 1200w Sub)
    Mosconi 6to8 v8
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,804
    edited July 2008
    1996blackmax wrote: »
    What is the big deal here?

    The OP has taken old DX12 subs and made a claim that the Polk Audio engineers are dunderheads and do not know the limitations of their own design. So he installed those subs in a ported enclosure. Polk Audio personnel actually posted here and advised him that what he was doing was inadvisable because of the high mass cones that the DX series of subs is equipped with. So, now, because he has managed to get a few weeks worth of noise out of them, he feels the need to inform us on a regular basis that he is right and everyone here is wrong.

    He's elevated himself to troll status because of that.

    Poster two is calling him on his BS while the rest of us have just decided to either ignore the OP or stand idly by and enjoy the show.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • 1996blackmax
    1996blackmax Posts: 2,436
    edited July 2008
    understood.....

    :)
    Alpine: CDA-7949
    Alpine: PXA-H600
    Alpine: CHA-S624, KCA-420i, KCA-410C
    Rainbow: CS 265 Profi Phase Plug / SL 165
    ARC Audio: 4150-XXK / 1500v1-XXK
    JL Audio: 10W6v2 (x2)
    KnuKonceptz
    Second Skin
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  • Jethro
    Jethro Posts: 28
    edited July 2008
    Jstas wrote: »
    The OP has taken old DX12 subs and made a claim that the Polk Audio engineers are dunderheads and do not know the limitations of their own design. So he installed those subs in a ported enclosure. Polk Audio personnel actually posted here and advised him that what he was doing was inadvisable because of the high mass cones that the DX series of subs is equipped with. So, now, because he has managed to get a few weeks worth of noise out of them, he feels the need to inform us on a regular basis that he is right and everyone here is wrong.

    He's elevated himself to troll status because of that.

    Poster two is calling him on his BS while the rest of us have just decided to either ignore the OP or stand idly by and enjoy the show.
    I'm still trying to figure what high mass has to do with whether or not a driver is suitable for a ported enclosure. I can see that it would be an issue below tuning, without the use of an SSF... but other than that, all it does is raise the Qts (if motor strength is not increased to compensate for the heavy cone).

    The main reason I can see to avoid porting a DX12 is the .58 Qts -- usually this provides for peaky response and a lot of resonance. But, in the right vehicle, I suppose it could work just fine...
    Friends don't let friends listen to Bose.
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  • nadams
    nadams Posts: 5,877
    edited July 2008
    a high-mass cone with a motor not designed for ported use will over-extend and be incredibly sloppy. Don't expect it to sound good, or last long at all.
    Ludicrous gibs!
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,804
    edited July 2008
    Jethro wrote: »
    I'm still trying to figure what high mass has to do with whether or not a driver is suitable for a ported enclosure. I can see that it would be an issue below tuning, without the use of an SSF... but other than that, all it does is raise the Qts (if motor strength is not increased to compensate for the heavy cone).

    The main reason I can see to avoid porting a DX12 is the .58 Qts -- usually this provides for peaky response and a lot of resonance. But, in the right vehicle, I suppose it could work just fine...

    It's not just high mass cones.

    Geez, ya know, we went over this several times before. I don't believe we have to type it all out again.

    The cones in the DX12 are heavy. The surrounds and rest of the suspension are not nearly as heavy as they could be or should be for ported subs. In a sealed enclosure, the air pocket behind the cone acts as a dampener for cone movement and supplements the suspension and helps it handle the movement of the cone.

    When you install it in a ported enclosure, you lose a good deal of the support of the dampening effect of the air pocket because the vent allows the pressure to change. A high mass cone carries more inertia with it as it moves. If the suspension and surround are not up to the task of controlling the sub movement without the dampening effect of a sealed enclosure, it will hyper extend the suspension and surround. This weakens them and they will eventually fail and likely much sooner than would be normally if the speaker was installed properly to begin with.

    Qts is a unitless measurement, characterizing the combined electric and mechanical damping of the driver. In electronics, Q is the inverse of the damping ratio. The value of Qts is proportional to the energy stored, divided by the energy dissipated, and is defined at resonance (Fs). Most drivers have Qts values between 0.2 and 0.8. Qts only describes the dampening of the driver, not the enclosure.

    You get a peaky response with a low Qts because that peaky response is due to the over extension of the driver. The driver gets moved to it's physical limit and the cone can distort and resonate which bumps the response up. However, Qts isn't a measure of quality but quantity. Just because the driver plays real loud at that point doesn't mean it plays cleanly at that point. Besides, no single T/S Parameter is adequate to describe how a driver will perform in any environment.

    Besides, Qts is a combination of Qes and Qms and those, again, only describe the mechanical and electrical properties of the driver. They do not factor in the dampening of the enclosure. If the enclosure is built correctly, it can greatly supplement the dampening of the driver to enhance performance.

    If you want to make noise and go for SPL, a ported box aimed at that peaky point is the way to go. A DX12 is not the sub I would use to do that. A DX12 I would use to go for an SQ competition because it digs deep, it is smooth and quite clean for a subwoofer. It's much better suited to high fidelity reproduction of music than ported boom wars.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • Jethro
    Jethro Posts: 28
    edited July 2008
    Jstas wrote: »
    It's not just high mass cones.

    Geez, ya know, we went over this several times before. I don't believe we have to type it all out again.

    The cones in the DX12 are heavy. The surrounds and rest of the suspension are not nearly as heavy as they could be or should be for ported subs. In a sealed enclosure, the air pocket behind the cone acts as a dampener for cone movement and supplements the suspension and helps it handle the movement of the cone.

    When you install it in a ported enclosure, you lose a good deal of the support of the dampening effect of the air pocket because the vent allows the pressure to change. A high mass cone carries more inertia with it as it moves. If the suspension and surround are not up to the task of controlling the sub movement without the dampening effect of a sealed enclosure, it will hyper extend the suspension and surround. This weakens them and they will eventually fail and likely much sooner than would be normally if the speaker was installed properly to begin with.

    Qts is a unitless measurement, characterizing the combined electric and mechanical damping of the driver. In electronics, Q is the inverse of the damping ratio. The value of Qts is proportional to the energy stored, divided by the energy dissipated, and is defined at resonance (Fs). Most drivers have Qts values between 0.2 and 0.8. Qts only describes the dampening of the driver, not the enclosure.

    You get a peaky response with a low Qts because that peaky response is due to the over extension of the driver. The driver gets moved to it's physical limit and the cone can distort and resonate which bumps the response up. However, Qts isn't a measure of quality but quantity. Just because the driver plays real loud at that point doesn't mean it plays cleanly at that point. Besides, no single T/S Parameter is adequate to describe how a driver will perform in any environment.

    Besides, Qts is a combination of Qes and Qms and those, again, only describe the mechanical and electrical properties of the driver. They do not factor in the dampening of the enclosure. If the enclosure is built correctly, it can greatly supplement the dampening of the driver to enhance performance.

    If you want to make noise and go for SPL, a ported box aimed at that peaky point is the way to go. A DX12 is not the sub I would use to do that. A DX12 I would use to go for an SQ competition because it digs deep, it is smooth and quite clean for a subwoofer. It's much better suited to high fidelity reproduction of music than ported boom wars.
    Qts is a very good indicator of what type of enclosure a particular driver is best suited for. I always look at EBP in addition to Qts, just so I have more than one indicator.

    A ported enclosure does provide damping, just not below tuning. That air-spring, combined with the driver's suspension and motor, will control the cones movement -- and in a very predictable fashion. If you want to keep the suspension from 'hyper extending', then adjust enclosure volume and tuning to prevent it from happening. Any decent box modeling program will be able to accurately predict this.

    In the case of only126db's setup, he's not running anywhere near enough power to exceed the mechanical limits of the drivers above tuning.

    There are other drivers out there with heavier cones and more compliant suspensions that survive just fine in ported enclosures. The Dayton Titanic is a fine example.

    I can see why Polk would be reluctant to recommend that the average consumer run a DX12 in a ported box -- they don't want to deal with warranty claims from blown woofers that had been put in oversized / mistuned enclosures. But that doesn't change the fact that only126db will likely be able to run his current setup indefinitely... as long as he doesn't send it too much power below tuning. That's really all it boils down to.
    Friends don't let friends listen to Bose.
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  • only126db
    only126db Posts: 157
    edited August 2008
    Another month gone by and no problems.....

    Gonna add more power as soon as my MTX sub sells....

    Will be nice to have a subsonic filter to help the subs relax a little below tuning...

    Just for those <a href="http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg225/only126db/?action=view&current=jackass.jpg&quot; target="_blank"><img src="http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg225/only126db/jackass.jpg&quot; border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> 's who hate....:p
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  • only126db
    only126db Posts: 157
    edited August 2008
    100_1621.jpg

    th_1.jpg
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  • dirthog
    dirthog Posts: 124
    edited August 2008
    That video looks pretty weak, the old sr124 dvc bumps more than that.

    I'd like to see and hear 4 of those bad boys in the back of an extended cab truck. It would probably make me crap myself.:o
    HU: 880PRS
    Front: SR6500
    Amp: Alpine MRV-F545
    Sub: SR124-DVC
    Amp: Alpine MRD-M1005
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,804
    edited August 2008
    dirthog wrote: »
    That video looks pretty weak, the old sr124 dvc bumps more than that.

    I'd like to see and hear 4 of those bad boys in the back of an extended cab truck. It would probably make me crap myself.:o

    Don't feed the troll(s).
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited August 2008
    I never understood why people insist on making videos of thier subs hitting in a car/truck/van or whatever....i mean yeah it makes stuff move around but the sound goin from the speaker to the mic on the recorder sound like distorted crap and serves almost no purpose.
    Then to make a video to show flex of objects in a car is just as dumb as i have a single kicker l5 10 in my rc truck and it vibrates the crap out of everything.
    Is it crazy loud and hitting record breaking dbs? No, point is it takes very little to make a mirrior shake or a gear selector on the column....system videos are lame end of rant.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited August 2008
    TouchOfEvil wrote: »
    I never understood why people insist on making videos of thier subs hitting in a car/truck/van or whatever....i mean yeah it makes stuff move around but the sound goin from the speaker to the mic on the recorder sound like distorted crap and serves almost no purpose.
    Then to make a video to show flex of objects in a car is just as dumb as i have a single kicker l5 10 in my rc truck and it vibrates the crap out of everything.
    Is it crazy loud and hitting record breaking dbs? No, point is it takes very little to make a mirrior shake or a gear selector on the column....system videos are lame end of rant.

    depends on the video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1B-mQlQGFk
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • bigaudiofanatic
    bigaudiofanatic Posts: 4,415
    edited August 2008
    This it's STUPID Talking about how mine are louder than yours. o i need more bass because i cant be heard from three blocks away and my boys need to be able to tell when I am coming. There is a big difference from balanced sound. And let me blow my F***ing ear drums out. how can you even hear anything else except bass. There is no reason for it PLUS you are killing your trans making your engine work harder and wasting gas. STUPID PERIOD.
    HT setup
    Panasonic 50" TH-50PZ80U
    Denon DBP-1610
    Monster HTS 1650
    Carver A400X :cool:
    MIT Exp 3 Speaker Wire
    Kef 104/2
    URC MX-780 Remote
    Sonos Play 1

    Living Room
    63 inch Samsung PN63C800YF
    Polk Surroundbar 3000
    Samsung BD-C7900
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,804
    edited August 2008
    bigaudiofanatic wrote: »
    There is no reason for it PLUS you are killing your trans making your engine work harder and wasting gas. STUPID PERIOD.

    What?








    Again folks, louder this time, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • bigaudiofanatic
    bigaudiofanatic Posts: 4,415
    edited August 2008
    The extra weight from the box, subs, and amps.
    HT setup
    Panasonic 50" TH-50PZ80U
    Denon DBP-1610
    Monster HTS 1650
    Carver A400X :cool:
    MIT Exp 3 Speaker Wire
    Kef 104/2
    URC MX-780 Remote
    Sonos Play 1

    Living Room
    63 inch Samsung PN63C800YF
    Polk Surroundbar 3000
    Samsung BD-C7900
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited August 2008
    exalted512 wrote: »
    depends on the video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1B-mQlQGFk
    -Cody

    Usually I stay out of boom boom threads, but that was a good one Cody!
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • only126db
    only126db Posts: 157
    edited August 2008
    Well this is a dark vid , but it gives some idea of the clarity of the sound, it's not actually real close to the vehicle, it starts at about 10-15 ft away with one door open...Until the bass hits...Ends @ about 100-110ft away.
    th_100_1643.jpg
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  • bigaudiofanatic
    bigaudiofanatic Posts: 4,415
    edited August 2008
    LMAO I can not wait till something breaks this is STUPID.
    HT setup
    Panasonic 50" TH-50PZ80U
    Denon DBP-1610
    Monster HTS 1650
    Carver A400X :cool:
    MIT Exp 3 Speaker Wire
    Kef 104/2
    URC MX-780 Remote
    Sonos Play 1

    Living Room
    63 inch Samsung PN63C800YF
    Polk Surroundbar 3000
    Samsung BD-C7900
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited August 2008
    exalted512 wrote: »
    depends on the video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1B-mQlQGFk
    -Cody

    Little differant from the typical video for car audio. Company owned show van vs the average joe but i did get a good laugh haha.
    Even still the actual bass note is lost as like normal it's distorted because the mic can not handle it. Also i have been in the vega van before as i used to compete and it was sweet kneeling next to the woofers and when it hits makes you sway.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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  • only126db
    only126db Posts: 157
    edited August 2008
    bigaudiofanatic wrote: »
    LMAO I can not wait till something breaks this is STUPID.

    I have never blown any audio equipment unless it was done on purpose or when my Polk DB 12 cones seperated from the coils(in recommended sealed boxes with 300rms to each)Or when a tensil lead snapped on an MA sub, so you will be waiting a long time...
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  • bigaudiofanatic
    bigaudiofanatic Posts: 4,415
    edited August 2008
    Not talking about audio equipment I am talking about the car itself.
    HT setup
    Panasonic 50" TH-50PZ80U
    Denon DBP-1610
    Monster HTS 1650
    Carver A400X :cool:
    MIT Exp 3 Speaker Wire
    Kef 104/2
    URC MX-780 Remote
    Sonos Play 1

    Living Room
    63 inch Samsung PN63C800YF
    Polk Surroundbar 3000
    Samsung BD-C7900
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  • only126db
    only126db Posts: 157
    edited August 2008
    bigaudiofanatic wrote: »
    Not talking about audio equipment I am talking about the car itself.

    Ahhh well thats sure to happen sooner or later...

    I hope later than sooner though...

    My tranny has been slipping every once in awhile....

    Best price I found was $1200 to get it rebuilt....

    Damn **** automatic...:mad:
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  • bigaudiofanatic
    bigaudiofanatic Posts: 4,415
    edited August 2008
    Ha mine s a **** car and i n drop the girl at least twice a week runs like a champ also take her to the race track. Has now 85k on her and i drive it an hour and 10 inutes one way to work everyday.
    HT setup
    Panasonic 50" TH-50PZ80U
    Denon DBP-1610
    Monster HTS 1650
    Carver A400X :cool:
    MIT Exp 3 Speaker Wire
    Kef 104/2
    URC MX-780 Remote
    Sonos Play 1

    Living Room
    63 inch Samsung PN63C800YF
    Polk Surroundbar 3000
    Samsung BD-C7900
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  • only126db
    only126db Posts: 157
    edited August 2008
    I have close to twice that on my truck... 150k+

    But it's automatic....
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  • bigaudiofanatic
    bigaudiofanatic Posts: 4,415
    edited August 2008
    Same here it's a auto as well.
    HT setup
    Panasonic 50" TH-50PZ80U
    Denon DBP-1610
    Monster HTS 1650
    Carver A400X :cool:
    MIT Exp 3 Speaker Wire
    Kef 104/2
    URC MX-780 Remote
    Sonos Play 1

    Living Room
    63 inch Samsung PN63C800YF
    Polk Surroundbar 3000
    Samsung BD-C7900
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