Vinyl keeps surging

reeltrouble1
reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
edited June 2008 in 2 Channel Audio
Here is some news for vinyl hounds. Seems a company in the Northwest mistakenly ordered a load of vinyl and its selling. Customers say is sounds better than CD. Oh really!!!!!

Mentions BB is testing vinyl in some stores.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080610/vinyl_retailers.html

RT1
Post edited by reeltrouble1 on
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited June 2008
    Thanks for the article.

    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited June 2008
    Cool. Vinyl definitely has a better quality sound IMO. Pops and clicks are annoying though.
    Sharp Elite 70
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    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited June 2008
    Agreed. More fluidity, naturalness(???) and warmth, but the friggin surface noise. Most of it can be gotten rid of, Joe and Troy have shown me that, but it's still there occasionally.

    The thing is you won't find alot of really great music on anything but vinyl.
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited June 2008
    Clean vinyl makes a big difference. And yes I love the warm and body of LP's. Digital always seams lacking.

    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited June 2008
    those pesky Northwest tree huggers.. what do they know about good sound or vinyl? :p
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited June 2008
    I did some comparisons yesterday between vinyl and CDs

    Using my Sony TT and Grado cartridge vs my PS3 as CD and my Sony DVD as CD transport.

    First thing I noticed was the difference in input gains between TT vs other CD inputs.

    The differenece was about 14db! The phono input being WAY softer.

    I'm running my TT thru the phono input on my Yamaha V1800 (which has the dedicated phono input stage).

    Is this 'typical'? Or maybe I need an external preamp stage with more gain?

    Anyway - once I found comparable volume settings, I'd have to say that LPs do sound 'warmer'.

    I was playing some remastered CDs and noticed that they were extremely "hot and bright" in comparison to vinyl. Yes, the surface noise is greatly reduced/eliminated and yes, depending on the remastered mix, there were some improvements in sound stage separation and clarity in some of the midrange.

    But, I'm undecided given the pros and cons against each:
    Vinyl -disadvantages:
    * gain WAY too low and the volume has to be cranked up past 0db on my AVR to get acceptable volume (maybe this is a function of the cartridge or avr?)
    * surface noise can be distracting
    * too much 'ritual' to care and clean and store

    Vinyl - advantages:
    * Warmer sound
    * Mix is more listenable and not as 'fatiguing' as CD

    CD - advantages:
    * easier to store and care
    * gain can easily drive AVR to room filling sound
    * some remastered mixes improve sound stage and mid clarity

    CD - disadvantages:
    * many mixes are very "hot and bright" to the point of being disturbing
    * at loud levels can be fatiguing

    Sure - not a scientific experiment and I am admittedly not using the best available transports for CDs or TT, but it is what is it for what I've got.

    fwiw,
    Erik

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited June 2008
    is CD's could only have a warmer more natural sound.. it would be more pleasing to listen to. but what can you do? I think some of the high end gear probably reaches that goal, but you're talking big bucks to get there. which never made sense to me.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited June 2008
    Sounds good. I think I will make a TT set up my next goal. Gonna look into a Rega or Pro Ject. Vinyl will never die no matter how many times the industry tries to kill it.
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited June 2008
    Get a phono pre Erik Tracy, that should help you with you problem.
    "* gain WAY too low and the volume has to be cranked up past 0db on my AVR to get acceptable volume (maybe this is a function of the cartridge or avr?)"

    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited June 2008
    My kind of article.
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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited June 2008
    I can't wait to get my hands back on my TT set up. I surely do miss it.
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited June 2008
    danger boy wrote: »
    is CD's could only have a warmer more natural sound.. it would be more pleasing to listen to. but what can you do?

    On a well-mastered SACD, such as Steely Dan's "Gaucho", digital can indeed sounds like vinyl.....and still retains the convenience of digital.
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited June 2008
    I have Steely Dan's "Gaucho" SACD, and it is very good but I still Vinyl still sounds much better played on the same audio equipment.(pre amp,amp, and speakers) Everyone has likes and dislikes and opinions, if Danny feels that way it is his opinion and is respected by me.

    Thanks,
    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited June 2008
    I will take the greater clarity & improved sound stage of a cd over the warmer sound of a record any day of the week.

    It's warmer because it simply can't play that loud. If it could it would sound like a cd & as you noted you have to turn up the volume excessively just to hear it play at a normal level. And then you have to put up with the increased sound of all the snap crackle & pop!:mad:

    I don't have a problem with using my remote to turn down the volume to an acceptable level to enjoy the increased dynamics, clarity & sound stage of a well mastered cd. I don't understand why everyone else is so bent out of shape about having to do so.:confused:

    Tell me does anyone worry about volume & brightness when they are at a live concert? I don't think so. And you don't get to save your hearing either unless you leave. So what's the big deal over the same brightness you might get with a cd?

    I think people just have to look for things to *itch about!
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    CD - advantages:
    * easier to store and care
    * gain can easily drive AVR to room filling sound
    * some remastered mixes improve sound stage and mid clarity

    CD - disadvantages:
    * many mixes are very "hot and bright" to the point of being disturbing
    * at loud levels can be fatiguing

    Sure - not a scientific experiment and I am admittedly not using the best available transports for CDs or TT, but it is what is it for what I've got.

    fwiw,
    Erik
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited June 2008
    I think I just vomited a little bit in the back of my throat.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2008
    Digital, for those that can't handle reality.

    Seriously, I picked up a couple MFSL Metallica records at teen / goth clothing store at the MALL the other day. No, I'm not telling you which one.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • fatchowmein
    fatchowmein Posts: 2,637
    edited June 2008
    Ah, come on Russ. You gotta help us out. I used to pick up classical vinyl for $.99-$1.99. Now, folks want $18-$36 and I'm the only loser in the classical section.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2008
    I've got a TON of Vinyl you can flip through here, make you a deal you CANNOT pass on when you come get these KLH 17's - I promise. Just hurry up already, I'm ready to do one last mega list for the board.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • fatchowmein
    fatchowmein Posts: 2,637
    edited June 2008
    I'm free Sunday. Busy Saturday with the Mrs and mother-in-law.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2008
    After listening to a cost no object (really) CD system, it was obvious that vinyl offers more, assuming you want to pay the price. Expensive: yes. But, if you want to get the absolute best sound, go with vinyl and keep the checkbook open. CD's DO NOT compare. There is a whole group of sounds missing on CD's.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited June 2008
    The disclaimer for the previous post is certainly altitude related.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2008
    I'm only at 5000 feet... Hardly enough to cause delusional comments. Obviously, when I climb the mountains I may revert back to liking CD's. :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited June 2008
    Danny Tse wrote: »
    On a well-mastered SACD, such as Steely Dan's "Gaucho", digital can indeed sounds like vinyl.....and still retains the convenience of digital.

    If I could obtain high quality SACD transfers of my vinyl collection, I'd burn my records, sell my turntable, and then plug into the Matrix forever.:)

    madmax wrote: »
    Expensive: yes. But, if you want to get the absolute best sound, go with vinyl and keep the checkbook open.

    :eek::eek::eek::eek:
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited June 2008
    CD's and some warm sounding tubes are hard to beat. I'm not sure vinyl is quite there yet :D
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited June 2008
    How does a CD sound through a tube-preamp? Will it tame the highs and give the music a warmer sound?
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2008
    cfrizz wrote: »
    I will take the greater clarity & improved sound stage of a cd over the warmer sound of a record any day of the week.

    It's warmer because it simply can't play that loud. If it could it would sound like a cd & as you noted you have to turn up the volume excessively just to hear it play at a normal level. And then you have to put up with the increased sound of all the snap crackle & pop!:mad:

    I don't have a problem with using my remote to turn down the volume to an acceptable level to enjoy the increased dynamics, clarity & sound stage of a well mastered cd. I don't understand why everyone else is so bent out of shape about having to do so.:confused:

    Tell me does anyone worry about volume & brightness when they are at a live concert? I don't think so. And you don't get to save your hearing either unless you leave. So what's the big deal over the same brightness you might get with a cd?

    I think people just have to look for things to *itch about!


    Wrong on each and every point. ;):)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2008
    madmax wrote: »
    Wrong on each and every point. ;):)
    madmax
    +1...
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited June 2008
    I agree. Vinyl has a unique signature, no doubt, but it's not my cup of tea. I've heard bad vinyl but way more bad CD's in my travels.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2008
    Sometimes, bad is bad... Huey Lewis.

    CD sound is all glitz, glamor and wow factor. Vinyl is truth.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • riglehart
    riglehart Posts: 276
    edited June 2008
    I prefer ceramic or porcelein over vinyl. Even though the up front cost ism ore, it will last forever and it's much easier to take care...

    oops. wrong forum.
    Jolida Tube
    Polk 11T, 7, 5, 5jr, 4
    Standard equip not worth bragging about.
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