Holy grail for $19.95?

steveinaz
steveinaz Posts: 19,538
edited June 2008 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
You bet your ****.

With my recent testing of digital coaxials, I decided to test drive the Belden 1694A sold by Blue Jeans. It's terminated with Canare BNC to RCA, 3ft. I noticed that Benchmark Media was also selling this cable for the DAC1 and figured, shoot, $19 bucks? I'll give it a go. Belden 1694A has some incredible specifications, and is considered the 75ohm standard.

As respectable a performance as the Signal Cable coax presented (my current favorite), this Belden beat it in my system. It's meticulous without being etched, extremely neutral, and an outstanding soundstage.

Unbelievable. I recommend you test drive one, for 19 bones you've got nothing to lose.
Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,986
    edited June 2008
    I believe that is the cable Blue Jeans uses. SC's has a higher nom. cap. I actually preferred the SC over the BJ.

    Cool Steve.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited June 2008
    Steve, Right now I've got my gaming pc hooked up to my avr via an A.R. toslink cable,
    would you recommend a DAC to go between? Keep in mind it's not a highend avr, but...
    Thanks
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2008
    Bah, the 1694 isn't available with 1/8" termination.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2008
    obieone wrote: »
    Steve, Right now I've got my gaming pc hooked up to my avr via an A.R. toslink cable,
    would you recommend a DAC to go between? Keep in mind it's not a highend avr, but...
    Thanks
    AVR DAC's or external DAC aside, you're better off running digital coax if possible.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited June 2008
    :( Toslink only on the Mobo, or 8 x 1/8th analog outs.
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited June 2008
    RuSsMaN wrote: »
    I believe that is the cable Blue Jeans uses. SC's has a higher nom. cap. I actually preferred the SC over the BJ.

    Cool Steve.

    Yes, Blue Jeans cable. It's built by Belden for BJ's, and a number of other cable companies (Benchmark included)

    It was close, but the resolution of the Belden is just intoxicating. These 2 "budget" cables are so impressive, it will just come down to your system. I'd use the SC in an edgier system, the belden in a softer system.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • AdamRagland
    AdamRagland Posts: 521
    edited June 2008
    why do you prefer digital coax over toslink?
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited June 2008
    Toslink is a little "too" neutral for me, coaxial adds a little flavor. YMMV.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2008
    AdamRagland wrote: »
    why do you prefer digital coax over toslink?
    I found toslink bland or flat sounding compared to coax.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2008
    The 1694A is a cable that can also be had real cheap in bulk if you want to make your own. It sells for $0.45 a foot at my local shop. Throw in $3 connectors and you have a great 75 ohm 1m IC for $7.50.
    Jake
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited June 2008
    Wow, I bought one of these ~5 years ago to go between my JVC dvd player and Yamaha rcvr, back when I had JBLs. Never new it was the holy grail or anything.

    Oh well, still can't hear a difference between that and the other coaxs I have tried, so congrats on finding your grail for only $20. Now if you haven't already go try some Belden 89259.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • adam2434
    adam2434 Posts: 995
    edited June 2008
    I've been using a BJC 65 footer (yes, 65) from my PC's coax to my DAC in the basement. No problems at all with this length, although I can't say that I've been able to hear differences in digital cables.

    I also use three 30 foot runs of this for component video to my projector.

    For digital coax, video, and HDMI, I've never felt a reason to go beyond BJC.
    5.1 and 2.0 ch Basement Media Room: Outlaw 975/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Rotel RB-1552/Audiosource Amp 3/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage or Dayton IO655 on patio.
    2.1 ch Basement Gym: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2/Chromecast Audio.
    2.0 ch Living Room: Rotel RX-1052/Emotiva DC-1/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED.
    2.0 ch Semi-portable: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3/Chromecast Audio.
    Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,990
    edited June 2008
    Holy Grail ??? I dunno Steve,I think you have too much time on your hands lately bud.
    At my age,the Holy Grail is new soft cotton socks and clean underwear.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited June 2008
    My wife has standing orders that if I am seen wearing elastic band pants or velcro attached tennis shoes--she is to remove the AR from the closet and shoot me.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited June 2008
    AdamRagland wrote: »
    why do you prefer digital coax over toslink?

    Optical is digital to optical, optical to digital. Coax is straight digital. Two less conversions.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited June 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Optical is digital to optical, optical to digital. Coax is straight digital. Two less conversions.

    Not true. Coax still requires the digital output to be converted to an electrical signal for transmission, then converted back on the receiving end for decoding.

    The main difference between the two is resistance, and EMI/RFI. Light is not effected by EMI/RFI, electricity is.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited June 2008
    phuz wrote: »
    Not true. Coax still requires the digital output to be converted to an electrical signal for transmission, then converted back on the receiving end for decoding.

    The main difference between the two is resistance, and EMI/RFI. Light is not effected by EMI/RFI, electricity is.

    What do you think the digital signal is:confused: You realy should try Coax;)
    I too figured optical would be better, but for SNG I tried Coax. Much better in my system.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited June 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    What do you think the digital signal is:confused: You realy should try Coax;)
    I too figured optical would be better, but for SNG I tried Coax. Much better in my system.

    I have coax and optical! :) I'm not saying optical is better than coax or vice-a-versa. I'm just saying the signal has to be prepared for transmission by their respective medums either way.

    Digital is just that, digital. It's binary. On or off. Whether it's voltage or light that is being turned on or off isn't really relevant unless you get into really long runs or high emi/rfi environments. It's just a medium for the transmission of 0s and 1s.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited June 2008
    phuz wrote: »
    Digital is just that, digital. It's binary. On or off. Whether it's voltage or light that is being turned on or off isn't really relevant unless you get into really long runs or high emi/rfi environments. It's just a medium for the transmission of 0s and 1s.

    From the DAC kits I have been studying the coax is straight from the chip, and the optical is taking the coax, and converted to optical.
    I wouldn't mind being corrected if I am wrong;)
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited June 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    From the DAC kits I have been studying the coax is straight from the chip, and the optical is taking the coax, and converted to optical.
    I wouldn't mind being corrected if I am wrong;)
    Ben

    From what chip specifically? And are you saying that this chip is the final point that the information goes through prior to being transmitted across the coax connection? The chip actually generates the electrical signal that goes from the source to the destination?

    DAC kits? I'm talking about the transmitting side, not the receiving side. Although like dorokusai, I'm sure it does go both ways.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited June 2008
    phuz wrote: »
    A: )The chip actually generates the electrical signal that goes from the source to the destination?

    B: )Although like dorokusai, I'm sure it does go both ways.


    A: ) yes
    B: ) sometimes I wonder:D
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited June 2008
    A: ) I thought power supplies generate the electrical part. The chip just tells it whether it's ON or OFF. Like the chip that tells the light whether it's ON or OFF.
    B: ) I didn't think there was any question! ;)
    C: ) You're WRONG WRONG WRONG! heheh

    Sorry to crap on the thread. I <3 all digital coax.

    Some interesting reading:

    http://members.cox.net/pjaceto/Digital%20Audio%20Transmission.pdf
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited June 2008
    The chip is the actual part responsible for transmitting the 1s, and 0's. Most data transferred via Coax is just .5v signals.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2008
    I have coax and optical from my PC to my pre/pro. While playing reference material, I've switched back and forth between the two and have heard the difference. I've done it for others without telling them what I was doing, they agreed that the coax sounded better.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited June 2008
    I have found Toslink to be very neutral, that's not necessarily a negative.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited June 2008
    Wow what happened, the poll threads went off with out a hitch, what happened here?

    For those who care and like reading I am attaching some info from Jon Risch here. It covers various wire types, sheilding, dielectrics, etc along with specific recommendations on interconnects. It was very influential to me when I got into this hobby 5+ years ago, just as it is today.

    For the record on pg2 he recommends Belden 1695A as his top coax pick, it is the same as Steve's "holy grail" except with a teflon dielectric. He also recommends Belden 89259 as his top interconnect pick, the cable used in Signal Analog IIs. Lots of good info on the site, I especially like the power cord section.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited June 2008
    I considered the 1695A as well, but 1694A had a much longer history/success record. I'm extremely satisfied with this cable.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,341
    edited June 2008
    Where is a good source to buy Belden by the foot?
    Carl

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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited June 2008
    http://www.westlake-electronic.com/

    They have belden and Canare RCA's cheap.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2008
    You got it Steve. They are good guys out there and sell most of their wire/cable by the foot. Their supply of RCA connectors is a little on the skimp side, but they have the Neutrik NF2C-B/2 which is pretty sweet.

    Although they did just move from downtown Seattle to 45 minutes outside the city... :(
    Jake
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