China: your thoughts

Norm Apter

Hey Everybody,

I'm still relatively new here. I've been studying China and the Chinese language for a number of years. I've spent several years in both mainland China and Taiwan and am now back in the U.S., finishing up my Ph.D. in modern Chinese history.

I want to pose the following question to any who are interested: When you hear the word "China", what is/are the first thought(s) that come to mind? Positive, neutral, negative, serious, humorous...all kinds of responses are welcome.

Though I've only been hanging out at Club Polk for a few weeks, any discussion of cables or amp power demonstrates that there is a broad variety of opinion here. Thus, I just wanted to get a sense of the variety of views that Americans (and people from other countries as well) hold toward China in the early part of this century.

Norm

PolkWannabie

I'm no tree hugger but ... The next and probably last great energy user and polluter ... We give them technology either directly or "indirectly" ... They give us poison dog food and lead filled toys for kids i.e. a variety of things we had managed to eliminate from society 50+ years ago ... When they some how manage to get a billion refrigerators and air conditioners going you can probably call the ozone layer doomed as well ...

F1nut

Too many people. A threat to the well being of the USA and the rest of the world from the rapid growth of unregulated industry, the consumption of natural resources and major pollution. Low quality products. The financial ownership of the USA.

obieone

Lasareath wrote: »

Asian ****

Um, that's Japan, I believe.:D

obieone

When I think of China, I think..."Grab my ankles", because, they're gonna f*ck us hard pretty soon. Not that they haven't been trying to do it 'gently' over the past couple of years

mule

I think of the people I know who are going to the Olympics and think thats pretty cool, and then I remember this...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1761062858590826090

and think maybe its not so cool.

cfrizz

Communism = Evil!

SolidSqual

I speak Mandarin. The country's history is amazing. The innovation they demonstrated before many Western inventors is highly regarded. Without China, many Americans would not be able to afford many of the luxury items they enjoy today. The growth of our country is tied to China's growth. That being said, the benefits are often uneven. Something more than pressure needs to be placed on China to stop inflating the value of their currency to gain an advantage against the dollar. China needs to be held responsible for the products they export.

I respect the way China doesn't give a damn of how they are perceived in the world. Though I don't agree with how they treat some citizens of their country, I extremely respect the fact that they govern without being influenced by small liberal states in Europe or Fascist states in the Middle East.

We can learn a lot from China and they could learn a lot from us.

Finally, China is not the threat they appear to be just yet . . .

First, although their economy is growing quickly, it still is nowhere near the size of our own. Not even close.

Second, their infrastructure is nowhere near our own. I've been to places in China that still don't have electricity and no running water. In fact, they don't even have paved roads.

Third, communism doesn't work. China's growth is directly related to their use of Capitalism. Until that use becomes more advanced they will not be a threat.

Some thing to be worried about . . .

China using our own advanced technology to drill offshore oil while Libs continue to promote inefficient oil alternatives that only lead to higher oil prices.

Early B.

I see China as being highly populated with loyal, disciplined, and hard working people. The more they are influenced by Western ideas, the greater a "threat" they become, not only to other countries, but to themselves. China, costarring Japan and India, will soon become the next superpower.

devani

their copy cars are amazing...:mad: I am sure we can afford their copy cars....
Real BMW and copy



Honda CRV and copy











even the LOGO's are amazingly similar:mad:

Jstas

SolidSqual wrote: »

Finally, China is not the threat they appear to be just yet . . .

The threat from China is not in conventional sense.

China has stockpiled, billions of dollars in U.S. cash. If they flood our markets with all that cash, the value of the dollar will plummet and literally send 90% of the country into abject poverty. You think gas is bad now at 4+ a gallon, try 45+ a gallon on for size and see how it fits. That alone is scary enough. We would not even be able to PAY for a WAR with China. They could attack us one day and flood the market the next day and completely take away our ability to respond to their attack in any sense.

That is scary enough. Their economy and polluting and resource consumption pales in comparison.


That's about all I'm adding here because the new guy obviously didn't read the rules about politics.

sucks2beme

Trouble. Big trouble. As I read somewhere, "A Isolated Communist China
is a far lesser threat than a progressive China." I see expansion and
world domination in their future.

polkatese

devani wrote: »

their copy cars are amazing...:mad: I am sure we can afford their copy cars....
QUOTE]

Thanks for the link and information, Devani. Out of curiousity, I went to www.autohome.com.cn

That's pretty impressive knock off work! (can't understand any of the descriptions, but looking only at the pics). I am surprise we don't hear or read that much about this side of the news, from the big automakers. It would be funny if I start seeing a knockoff BMW on the street around here. Where can I buy one?

kingtut

It is a communist country that violated human rights. China is also one of the worst polluters in the world. China has rich history, but the last 40 years has left much to be desired

zingo

"made in..."

I hate how Copy Right Laws basically don't apply in their country, per the cars above. Along with all the stories about pirated software, movies, etc. that even the government uses. That's what happens when unnatural forces run your country (Communism).

Jstas

If you guys think the cars are bad, you should see their military. Looks like a mix of U.S., British, French and Russian navies floating in their ship yards and they are apparently almost as capable.

They don't develop technology, they steal it and adapt it. Not much innovation comes out of China anymore and if you see something innovative, if you dig deep into the the rosy outer shell they usually paint over it, you'll find a knock-off of western technology of some sort beneath that shell.

It's a shame too because they put their best minds to the task of reverse engineering everything when they could be applying it to new technologies. What's even sadder is that their brightest people are some of the brightest in the world.

avelanchefan

Jstas wrote: »

The threat from China is not in conventional sense.

China has stockpiled, billions of dollars in U.S. cash. If they flood our markets with all that cash, the value of the dollar will plummet and literally send 90% of the country into abject poverty. You think gas is bad now at 4+ a gallon, try 45+ a gallon on for size and see how it fits. That alone is scary enough. We would not even be able to PAY for a WAR with China. They could attack us one day and flood the market the next day and completely take away our ability to respond to their attack in any sense.

That is scary enough. Their economy and polluting and resource consumption pales in comparison.

+1 Jstas. We may not get along about our cars, but if we can get people to understand China in the context as which you posted, we would all be better off, and smarter. I just hope they do not release like jstas has stated, but the threat is there, and it is scary.

mule

I don't know about the current car stuff, but they manufacture some outdated motorcyle stuff and china bought the tooling directly from the original manufacturer.

steveinaz

How can I hate China? People get away with that which they are allowed to get away with. They're just captilizing on our greed and out-sourcing. Americans are hilarious, we pull our pants down, close our eyes and bend over, then wonder why we have a sore ****.

Their culture is fascinating.

BaggedLancer

Fried Rice.

Aimen RG

the only country which can f**k US, gotta love em

Danny Tse

- Piracy everywhere. It's really sad and shameful when ancient China came up with a lot of innovations that we take granted for nowadays, such as paper money and the printing press. Instead the Chinese people waste much efforts at copying works of others. :mad::(

- Corrupted government. This is a given. No transparency in government workings. Government officials use their posts to rip off citizens and others (I am 100% convinced that the Chinese government is involved in CD piracy). Government officials will do anything with the right amount of bribe. :mad: With the recent earthquakes in China, I can guarantee that no earthquake-resistant buildings will be build to replace those that have collapsed because government officials will accept bribes to look the other way while construction companies will replace re-bars with bamboo.

- Uneducated and uninformed citizens. Except for those with money, the typical citizen of China is ill-informed about its own govenrment or the world at large. Perhaps this is how the Chinese government wants it, but this has been going on for thousands of years.

- Companies that don't back up its products. :mad: Chinese people don't expect service after purchase and this is the result. We in the West are just finding this out now.

heiney9

My parents very good friends have a second plant in China. The first is here in the US in the city I live in. They are taking a 10 day trip over to China the beginning of June this year and my parents are going along as well. The purpose of the visit is mostly pleasure and some small business dealings.

My parents have been reading up on China for the past 6-8 months just to get a more in depth idea about customs and what to expect. They seem to have a guarded nervousness about the trip, but they are excited at the same time . Neither of my parents have been to China and it certainly can be a controversial topic here in the states. The nervousness stems from the unknown and not really knowing what to expect.

The plant manager who runs the business for my parent's friends (who are owners) is Chinese (born and raised in China) and is pretty well connected with the government and will be their guide as he knows all the ins and outs and how to get around a lot of the regulation which China seems to impose, especially on Americans.

I'll have more to say when they get back in the middle of June after hearing about their trip.

H9

Polk addict

Do I see a resemblence between one car and an Isuzu? Just like Honda did with the Rodeo?

zingo

BaggedLancer wrote: »

Fried Rice.

and General Tso's chicken... ummmm...

kingtut

Danny Tse wrote: »

- Piracy everywhere. It's really sad and shameful when ancient China came up with a lot of innovations that we take granted for nowadays, such as paper money and the printing press. Instead the Chinese people waste much efforts at copying works of others. :mad::(

- Corrupted government. This is a given. No transparency in government workings. Government officials use their posts to rip off citizens and others (I am 100% convinced that the Chinese government is involved in CD piracy). Government officials will do anything with the right amount of bribe. :mad: With the recent earthquakes in China, I can guarantee that no earthquake-resistant buildings will be build to replace those that have collapsed because government officials will accept bribes to look the other way while construction companies will replace re-bars with bamboo.

- Uneducated and uninformed citizens. Except for those with money, the typical citizen of China is ill-informed about its own govenrment or the world at large. Perhaps this is how the Chinese government wants it, but this has been going on for thousands of years.

- Companies that don't back up its products. :mad: Chinese people don't expect service after purchase and this is the result. We in the West are just finding this out now.

Agree with you 100%. That is very insightful.
I'd like to add unethical practices, as far as tainted products (toys, medicine, food, etc.)

Danny Tse

kingtut wrote: »

Agree with you 100%. That is very insightful.
I'd like to add unethical practices, as far as tainted products (toys, medicine, food, etc.)

Those "bad product" cases you mentioned are the ones you hear in the US media because they affect the general American population. However, this type of stories have been happening for a long time, including the one where infants died from "fake" baby formula....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3641475.stm

Being in the Chinese-American community, I also see a lot more of these stories than what mainstream US media will cover. Chinese products CAN BE excellent, both in quality and in price, but the "anything to make a buck" attitude of the general Chinese population must be stopped. On the other hand, I doubt I will see that happening in my lifetime.

BeRad

China: Cost effective manufacturing, difficult maintenance of quality control.

Danny Tse

devani wrote: »

That's pretty impressive knock off work! (can't understand any of the descriptions, but looking only at the pics). I am surprise we don't hear or read that much about this side of the news, from the big automakers.

I've seen the fake Honda CR-V with my own eyes. Near Gunagzhou, China, the fake CR-V's "manufacturer" actually advertises "its product" on a giant billboard next to.....you guessed it.....a Honda CR-V billboard. It was reported several years back in "Car & Driver" that Honda was suing for millions of $$$.

polkatese

suing? that sounds like a futile attempt. I am sure the owners of those knock off factories knew that they can get away with. It's such a blatant disregard of copyright laws, that defies common sense.

obieone

Y'all want to read a SCARY book about the potential of China, checkout "Invasion", by Eric L. Harry. If their army is 1/10th the size as it is in the book, then it's STILL 12x larger than ours.