MAGIC POWER DIGITAL REFERENCE cable

Norm Apter

Has anybody here used the Signal Cable MAGIC POWER DIGITAL REFERENCE power cable for their components/amp?

I'm in the process of upgrading with SignalCable stuff (just ordered the Analog II interconnects and Ultra Speaker Cables), and am wondering if I should go for the SC hat trick.

If you've used the Magic Power Digital Reference power cable, I have a few questions:

1) Most important, can you hear a difference? If so, is the difference really noticeable?

2) My two channel rig is comprised of three pieces: amp, pre/tuner, and CD player. The CD player does NOT have a removable power cable; the other two do. For the difference, would it be best to buy TWO of these power cables, one for the amp AND one for the pre/tuner, or would one be enough? If the latter is the case, which item should I use it for?

3) When selecting the custom length of the cord, is the speaker cable rule of "as short as possible" applicable here? Adding length for more $$ always adds flexibility, but I'd want to keep in mind length if it increases resistance.

4) What about the possibility of plugging this power cable into a surge suppressor/protector? Would that negate the benefit that it brings? In other words, should this be plugged directly into the wall outlet?

If you'd like to weigh in on one or more of the questions above, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Norm

WilliamM2

1) Most important, can you hear a difference? If so, is the difference really noticeable?

Some claim you can, but no one has ever been able to verify it.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

2) My two channel rig is comprised of three pieces: amp, pre/tuner, and CD player. The CD player does NOT have a removable power cable; the other two do. For the difference, would it be best to buy TWO of these power cables, one for the amp AND one for the pre/tuner, or would one be enough? If the latter is the case, which item should I use it for?

Since there will be no difference, 0 will be enough.

3) When selecting the custom length of the cord, is the speaker cable rule of "as short as possible" applicable here? Adding length for more $$ always adds flexibility, but I'd want to keep in mind length if it increases resistance.

The power travels through hundreds of feet of Romex to reach the outlet, how much more resistance do you think a 6 foot power cord will add?

4) What about the possibility of plugging this power cable into a surge suppressor/protector? Would that negate the benefit that it brings? In other words, should this be plugged directly into the wall outlet?

There is no benefit to negate. Although some surge protectors will limit current, which can have a negative effect, it has nothing to do with the cable.

Face

SignalCable has a 30 day money back guarantee. If you can't hear a difference, you can return the cables.

As for WilliamM2, he can't hear the difference between different speaker cables or interconnects.

WilliamM2

As for WilliamM2, he can't hear the difference between different speaker cables or interconnects.

And from all the evidence provided so far, no one else can either. Or did you finally find some verifiable results you could share with us?

Face

What is this a court hearing?

I don't care about anyone else's tests, I've tried more than a few different types of cables in my rig. Some sound alike, some sound VERY different. If you were local, I'd invite you over to open you eyes(and ears).

Then again, even from a engineering standpoint, you can see how the speaker cables I use would sound different than most other cables.
http://www.goertzaudio.com/mi.html

Gaara

I will preface my post by saying I am not a big "cable believer". I have used power cords from Signal Cable, VH Audio, some other brand I can't remember, as well as budget favorites like Volex 17604 and Iron Lung Jellyfish. Included in those were maybe 5-6 SCDR PCs...all of which have been sold. I subscribe to the Risch school of thought, which is that a good power cord should be of sufficient gauge, well shielded, and have tight fitting connectors.

1. I was able to hear a small difference using the SCDR. When I tried to blind test it I wasn't able to hear differences. Replacing all of my PCs with well shielded ones yielded a small improvement, but I have terrible cable management.

2. If I recall correctly the A23 came with a decent PC, good connectors and ~16 gauge. That should be more then enough, as long as you have decent cable management I wouldn't recommend a upgrade, not worth it for the $ IMO.

3. Same as speaker wire, shorter is better.

4. Doesn't really matter either way.

WilliamM2

What is this a court hearing?

I don't care about anyone else's tests, I've tried more than a few different types of cables in my rig. Some sound alike, some sound VERY different. If you were local, I'd invite you over to open you eyes(and ears).

Then again, even from a engineering standpoint, you can see how the speaker cables I use would sound different than most other cables.
http://www.goertzaudio.com/mi.html

From an engineering standpoint, I could see how his designs would have an effect on (R), (L), and (C). Almost all wire will give different measurements on an ocilliscope. But are the differences audible? Can't tell from his measurements, as they give absolutely no scale. Is the difference 1% or .0000000001% at 12Khz?

Gaara

Wow, only took an hour to get to the old listening/measurements debate.

Norm, search through the old threads, should be tons of info for both sides on the power cords you are looking at.

MKZ

Norm Apter wrote: »

Has anybody here used the Signal Cable MAGIC POWER DIGITAL REFERENCE power cable for their components/amp?

I'm in the process of upgrading with SignalCable stuff (just ordered the Analog II interconnects and Ultra Speaker Cables), and am wondering if I should go for the SC hat trick.

If you've used the Magic Power Digital Reference power cable, I have a few questions:

1) Most important, can you hear a difference? If so, is the difference really noticeable?

2) My two channel rig is comprised of three pieces: amp, pre/tuner, and CD player. The CD player does NOT have a removable power cable; the other two do. For the difference, would it be best to buy TWO of these power cables, one for the amp AND one for the pre/tuner, or would one be enough? If the latter is the case, which item should I use it for?

3) When selecting the custom length of the cord, is the speaker cable rule of "as short as possible" applicable here? Adding length for more $$ always adds flexibility, but I'd want to keep in mind length if it increases resistance.

4) What about the possibility of plugging this power cable into a surge suppressor/protector? Would that negate the benefit that it brings? In other words, should this be plugged directly into the wall outlet?

If you'd like to weigh in on one or more of the questions above, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Norm

1) Yes for me, YMMV.

2) Digital Reference has more impact than Magic Power. I have switched back and forth between with digital for processor and magic power for amp. I didn't see noticeable difference with magic power than stock 14 gauge wire IMO.

3) These cables are super stiff so give a little more room to bend. You can't measure A to B straight.

4) I don't see any benefit in sound wise. But a little sharper and brighter TV screen YMMV.

There is no hurt to try since Signal offer 30 days free in home trial. Most electronics may react differently on cables. Your results may vary.

Norm Apter

Gaara wrote: »

Wow, only took an hour to get to the old listening/measurements debate.

Norm, search through the old threads, should be tons of info for both sides on the power cords you are looking at.

Yes, I certainly had no intention of rekindling a debate. I had just hoped to get the impressions of those who had tried it, whether they had positive results or no results at all. But I'll go ahead and follow your advice and search old threads to see what I can find there.

In your other post, you mention that I should strive for "decent cable management." I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Would you mind explaining to me what this is?

Thanks,

Norm

Gaara

Norm Apter wrote: »

In your other post, you mention that I should strive for "decent cable management." I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Would you mind explaining to me what this is?

Easy, cable management is just managing your cables. Power cables emit noise, which can adversely affect sound quality. All cables do, to a lesser degree, but PCs are the worst. So when you get your rig setup you want to keep your interconnects away from your speaker wire, and keep both away from power cords.

Your rig should be easy, its just a couple sources a pre a amp and 2 speakers. My HT rig has 6 sources, 2 pres, 4 amps, etc. all in a tight space. I try and do cable management but it is difficult with so many going every which way. In my rig I do sometimes have PCs near interconnects, which is why shielded PCs made a difference in my rig, but will probably make less of a difference in yours.

dorokusai

Norm Apter wrote: »

Yes, I certainly had no intention of rekindling a debate. I had just hoped to get the impressions of those who had tried it, whether they had positive results or no results at all. But I'll go ahead and follow your advice and search old threads to see what I can find there.

In your other post, you mention that I should strive for "decent cable management." I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Would you mind explaining to me what this is?

Thanks,

Norm

Cables never really get discussed, they just get argued about. If we were talking about anything but sub-$100 cables, it might be worth the time to dissect it but you're not breaking the bank here. Folks can't help but sharpen the swords when it comes to this subject.

I like to upgrade my power cables with Signal because they are pretty inexpensive and I think it's made a difference in the past. There are cheaper alternatives, including DIY, so you're certainly not limited in any way.

Signal Cable has a 30 day money back offer. How can you really argue much about it at that point? If I had one laying around I'd send it to you to try out.

Frank(SC) makes a high quality product and Club Polkies get a 5% discount, which is essentially free shipping. Go for it.

Avalon

MKZ wrote: »

1) Yes for me, YMMV.

2) Digital Reference has more impact than Magic Power. I have switched back and forth between with digital for processor and magic power for amp. I didn't see noticeable difference with magic power than stock 14 gauge wire IMO.

3) These cables are super stiff so give a little more room to bend. You can't measure A to B straight.

4) I don't see any benefit in sound wise. But a little sharper and brighter TV screen YMMV.

There is no hurt to try since Signal offer 30 days free in home trial. Most electronics may react differently on cables. Your results may vary.

I have both Signal cables and at the time I bougth them I also had purchased a new preamp, so I changed too many pieces to the puzzle to attribute the better sound I heard to the cables. I leave this debate on that note. If anything, I know in my mind that they are supposed to be better .

I want to second item three from above. I've had more difficutly with my Magic Digital cable being too long, causing it to not fit snug in my CDP socket. They don't have very good bend radius, so before you order you may want to lay out where your power cords will fit. It's best if you have a staight pathway into your equipment socket. I have my monos behind the entertainment center, so I've had to snake my PCs around them.

Another problem I had, but wan't really attributed to the PCs, was that my wall outlets were pretty worn, meaning the PCs would sag. Since these cords are so heavy that gravity almost pulls them out of the outlet. I quickly fixed this by buying Hospital grade wall outlets. These are readily available at Lowes or Home Depot. They are designed to have a tighter fit on your power cord plugs preventing them from easily coming unplugged. Good luck!

reeltrouble1

Norm,

I would most certainly get some high quality cabling including Power Cords, the Signal Cable company has always been one of my favorite companies.

RT1

treitz3

dorokusai wrote: »

Cables never really get discussed, they just get argued about.

I'm staying out of this discussion because of that very reason. I did, however have a thought. I don't know whether or not it could be done, but I figured that I would ask.

Could the forum software have a separate discussion area for those who would actually like to discuss them? Kind of like a sub forum like Sal has started with the SDA's. The first hint of an argument about cables gets the naysayer booted out?

It might could work in theory, but I don't know. First thing to do would be to find out if this would be an option. There have been many times where a discussion is started and when the really good, valuable stuff starts to hit, the thread just goes down the toilet and nobody learns a thing because of the constant "debate".

Just a thought. Could it be arranged? Yeah, nay?

Personally, I would like to discuss all cables as gentlemen with no interference from the naysayers. Folks might actually learn something without having to read 10 pages of arguing.

ben62670

That would be nice Tom.
The biggest difference in cables would start with IC's, then speaker cables, and the power cables. If you have lower end equipment you are not going to hear much of a difference. The higher up the chain the more pronounced the difference. I didn't used to believe cables made a difference, but I opened my mind, and had to eat my words when I finally tried some good IC's between my pre, and amp. Try them, and if you don't hear a difference send them back, or resell them. I am still kicking myself for using sub standard cables for all those years.

Norm Apter

Thanks for all of you input.

As a matter of fact, I just received a pair of the Signal Cable Analog II interconnects in the mail on Monday. Put them in right away. Then, I received my Parasound Halo A23 yesterday. I also repositioned my Lsi9s (well actually the entire 2 channel rig) yesterday. This Saturday I will receive a pair 10' Signal Cable Ultra Speaker wires (they were shipped out today) to replace my old standard 14 ag speaker wire (the kind in plastic sheathing). Once I get those in place I plan to put together a mini-review, just something based on my experience thus far. Not to say I'm right and so-and-so is wrong, but just an honest evaluation of what sort of changes I've heard in the sound. Won't be any help to all the veterans out there, but maybe it will help some newbies such as myself consider their options when they are getting started with upgrades for their two channel system.

I think I might just hold off on the Power Cord for right now. I already have too many changes in the mix. But by no means am I ruling it out for the future. I've heard enough changes to know that some of these things do make a difference.

Anyway, as costly as this stuff is, its quite fun and addictive. I really should be writing my dissertation....

Ferres

I believe as the A/V gear become more sophisticated, the impact of the power cord diminishes. But the speaker cables and IC's still deliver.

nspindel

Normally when I post on a thread, I read most of the back-discussion, but at the risk of being dragged into yet another power cable debate, I'm just throwing my two cents in without reading what everyone else has been saying. The only reason I'm jumping in is because you're specifically asking about Signal.

I've got Frank's cables through my whole system now. I started off with 2 MPDR's for my Squeezebox and preamp, 1 Magic Power for my amp, the Magic Strip extender that they all plug into, and Analog Two interconnects.

First off, as far as price is concerned, you can search your way through this forum and find enough discussion of Frank's pricing to realize that his cables are extremely reasonably priced given the materials he's using. He's not running around in a new porsche every time he sells ten cables.

I spoke to Frank before I bought from him. I asked him the "why do I need a high end cord at the end of $1/foot Romex?" question and he answered it just fine. Here is what Frank from Signal said (paraphrased, these aren't his exact words...) : "Power cords for your system don't somehow magically filter noisy power at all. You just don't want them to be the weakest link in the power chain. It's all about filtering out the external RF noise. You don't need to filter out RF-interference inside the wall because nothing's emitting it in the wall. It's only near the equipment that the interference is produced, so that's where you need the AC wire inside the system to be extremely resistant to that interference." Makes total sense, no?

I can say without hesitation that the quality of his cables are outstanding, often being compared as being better than cables that people have paid several multiples of Frank's costs.

I also can highly recommend the speaker cables. I had been using a pair of Monster Z2's that I DIY'd, up until yesterday. I bought a pair of Signal Ultra's off SolidSqual the other day, and they arrived yesterday. I actually thought these Monsters I had were pretty good, I was quite pleased with the sound of my system. I really wasn't expecting much of an improvement. But the difference that the Signals made was astounding. They literally brought my system to a whole new level.

So I'd go for it. You'll be surprised at how relatively thin the MPDR is when compared to the Magic Power cord. The Magic Power cord is much thicker and is a higher guage wire, yet sells slightly cheaper. It's not all about the thickness. You won't be disappointed with the MPDR at $69....

Just remember it's a stiff cable, so don't plan on jamming it close to a wall or the back of a cabinet. They need some space.

reeltrouble1

empirical data is a wonderful thing.

RT1

nspindel

So Norm, did you buy the MPDR?

DarqueKnight

Norm Apter wrote: »

Has anybody here used the Signal Cable MAGIC POWER DIGITAL REFERENCE power cable for their components/amp?

I discussed my experiences with the MPDR in other threads:

DarqueKnight wrote: »

It depends on a lot of other factors such as:

1. Your gear.
2. Your ears.
3. The quality of wiring in your home.
4. The amount of electromagnetic interference in your home environment.

Typically, the better the quality of your gear's power supply, and the better the quality of power (low noise) coming from the wall, the less effect better quality power cords will have.

With regard to Signal Cable, they have a 30 day money back guarantee. If any of their products don't work for you, you would only be out of the shipping costs. Reviews and the opinions of others are nice reference points, but they are no substitute for first hand experience.

I tried Signal's Digital Reference power cords with my CD and SACD players, plasma televisions, and digital preamps and heard/saw no improvement whatsoever. I used the MagicPower cord with the same devices and heard/saw varying degrees of improvement, which have been discussed in some of my other posts.

steveinaz

Buy Signal Cable with confidence, I have really been impressed by Frank's stuff. His digital coax blew my DH Labs D-75 (so-called "giant killer" coax) outta the water this weekend...the D-75 will hit the FM soon.

DH Labs D-75 with BNC-RCA, $89 dollars...
Signal Cable digital coax, $29 dollars....
realizing that sometimes cheaper is better....PRICELESS.

Norm Apter

Nspindel,

No, I haven't purchased it yet -- I'm still a little torn, due to all of the changes I've made recently. In the last week, I have made three significant upgrades. They came in three different shipments: the SC analog II interconnects, Parasound Halo A23 and then, on Saturday, SC ultra speaker wires.

I have also repositioned my rig and speakers (and am still tinkering with speaker positioning/distance/angle) Wow! Its almost too much to handle at once. (I put a live version of "Two Step" by Dave Matthews Band right after everything was in place and got the goosebumps -- a good sign, indeed). Well, I can tell anyone who cares to listen that -- even with my modest system -- I could immediately detect a very noticeable improvement when a) I replaced the old Belkin PureAV Silver Series RCAs with the Analog IIs and b) when, on a different day, I switched out my old 14 gauge speaker wire for the Ultras (much cleaner sound). Well worth the investment. And of course the Parasound A23 is treating me very nice....I have it connected to my Yamaha AVR, which I am now using as a tuner/PRE (Aside from CDs, I do like to listen to the radio).

So, right now I'm really torn on what do about a PRE.... which seems to be the weak link in my chain. I've seen lots of support on this forum for the Adcom GFP-750 and some other classics (CJ), that run in the neighborhood of $650-700 on Agon. While I do have the money for it saved, I'm just not sure whether I should pull the trigger....everything already sounds so much better than before.

Anyway, back to your original question, I'd kind of like to sort out this thing with the PRE before I experiment with the MPDR. If I do go with a power cable, I can say one thing for sure: it will be from SC. The quality of their interconnects and speaker wire has me convinced what everyone else seems to say: they make a very high quality product at a very reasonable price.

Norm

nspindel

Cool - you're right where I was a few months ago!