My 3.1 TL went up in smoke!!!!

joeparaski
joeparaski Posts: 1,865
edited May 2008 in The Clubhouse
I'm at work and my daughter just called me to tell me that my right side speaker upstairs was making a very loud horrible sound and smoke was coming out of it.

I'll take off from work at lunch time and go check it out.

Well.....so much for leaving the *ucking system on all the time. I am not a happy camper.

Joe
Amplifiers: 1-SAE Mark IV, 4-SAE 2400, 1-SAE 2500, 2-SAE 2600, 1-Buttkicker BKA 1000N w/2-tactile transducers. Sources: Sony BDP CX7000es, Sony CX300/CX400/CX450/CX455, SAE 8000 tuner, Akai 4000D R2R, Technics 1100A TT, Epson 8500UB with Carada 100". Speakers:Polk SDA SRS, 3.1TL, FXi5, FXi3, 2-SVS 20-29, Yamaha, SVS center sub. Power:2-Monster HTS3500, Furman M-8D & RR16 Plus. 2-SAE 4000 X-overs, SAE 5000a noise reduction, MSB Link DAC III, MSB Powerbase, Behringer 2496, Monarchy DIP 24/96.
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,846
    edited May 2008
    Sounds like your amp started to send DC current. Get the amp(s) checked before you fix anything on the speaker(s)
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2008
    What Bill said, please have amp repaired before you use it again.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited May 2008
    Sorry to hear that. Please keep us informed on what you find. I leave my system on all the time and after hearing this I'm starting to get very concerned...
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    edited May 2008
    Good luck man,that sucks. I shut mine off. Was there a good reason to leave on all the time that I missed?
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited May 2008
    daboyz wrote: »
    Was there a good reason to leave on all the time that I missed?


    Where were you during lesson 3?????
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,197
    edited May 2008
    Bill nailed it. Sorry to hear about this. That's definitely a bummer. :(
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    edited May 2008
    Ricardo wrote: »
    Where were you during lesson 3?????

    Smokin' crack with my homies.:rolleyes:
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2008
    Joe,

    I don't think you should be kicking yourself over this one.

    If an amp went south right in front of your eye's, I don't feel you could have prevented damage to a speaker. Direct DC of 50-60 volts from an amp will damage a speaker in no time.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • joeparaski
    joeparaski Posts: 1,865
    edited May 2008
    Just got home and checked it out......Jesus H. Christ!!!! The right side is ALL toast including the tweeter. Smells real bad too. Tried pushing in the drivers on the left speaker and one or two have the scratchy noise. Which ones are affected from the opposite side with the SDA cable?

    Unplugged the speaker and turned the amp on. The right side LED's are pegged to the max.

    I gotta go back to work so I'll get into it later....maybe (I'm too depressed). Do you think the crossover is shot also?

    Man this is gonna cost me big time!

    Joe
    Amplifiers: 1-SAE Mark IV, 4-SAE 2400, 1-SAE 2500, 2-SAE 2600, 1-Buttkicker BKA 1000N w/2-tactile transducers. Sources: Sony BDP CX7000es, Sony CX300/CX400/CX450/CX455, SAE 8000 tuner, Akai 4000D R2R, Technics 1100A TT, Epson 8500UB with Carada 100". Speakers:Polk SDA SRS, 3.1TL, FXi5, FXi3, 2-SVS 20-29, Yamaha, SVS center sub. Power:2-Monster HTS3500, Furman M-8D & RR16 Plus. 2-SAE 4000 X-overs, SAE 5000a noise reduction, MSB Link DAC III, MSB Powerbase, Behringer 2496, Monarchy DIP 24/96.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2008
    joeparaski wrote: »
    Do you think the crossover is shot also?

    Joe


    Hate to break it too you but yes, and I question the left crossover also being that the sda cable would pass dc back through it.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • shadowofnight
    shadowofnight Posts: 2,735
    edited May 2008
    Ricardo wrote: »
    Sorry to hear that. Please keep us informed on what you find. I leave my system on all the time and after hearing this I'm starting to get very concerned...

    I leave my system on all the time...when I am home....it gets shut down if I am leaving the house.



    Sorry to hear about your mishap joe , hope you get her cranking tunes again shortly. I am interested in the condition of the left crossover as well in regards to the SDA cable...good luck .
    The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club
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  • honda cber
    honda cber Posts: 267
    edited May 2008
    wow. dont have anything to offer but condolences. i feel your pain, man.
    i usually turn mine off, but not always, and have left everything powered up for days at a time (!).

    a
    gear list:
    1 down, 4 up....
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  • shadowofnight
    shadowofnight Posts: 2,735
    edited May 2008
    Especially when a lot of us are running high powered amps that if they were human, would be old enough to drink in all 50 states :eek: and draw enough juice to dim the lights when we turn them on.
    The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,205
    edited May 2008
    joeparaski wrote: »
    Do you think the crossover is shot also?

    Man this is gonna cost me big time!

    Joe

    Sorry to hear Joe, yes I can almost guarantee the x-over is toast. Look for used drivers and rebuild when you can. Be thankful you only lost some drivers and a few electrical components. That easily could have burned your house down.

    My gear is approaching the 20 year mark and while I've had no issue's I don't leave my system on as much as I used to for this exact reason. In the right circumstance even protection circuits can't protect.

    When I worked in audio we had a Polk 5B go up in smoke because our switching board went haywire. The grill cloth caught on fire and luckily we were able to rip it off and stomp on it to put the fire out.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • ShinAce
    ShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited May 2008
    Meeeerde!

    DC fed into a speaker? Hmmm....?

    The coil for the woofer might be toast, but I doubt it. The woofer's voicecoil should burn first. Any caps in the woofer section are likely okay. Any resistor should be replaced.

    As for the tweeter section, if there are no resistors before the first cap, there should be no damage to it.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,205
    edited May 2008
    ShinAce wrote: »
    Meeeerde!

    DC fed into a speaker? Hmmm....?

    The coil for the woofer might be toast, but I doubt it. The woofer's voicecoil should burn first. Any caps in the woofer section are likely okay. Any resistor should be replaced.

    As for the tweeter section, if there are no resistors before the first cap, there should be no damage to it.

    We are guessing it was DC, but until he gets the amp checked it could be something else. DC is the logical conclusion, but who knows for 100% certain.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2008
    Here's a link to the crossover schematics.
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26697&d=1186346539
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • ShinAce
    ShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited May 2008
    joeparaski wrote: »
    I'm at work and my daughter just called me to tell me that my right side speaker upstairs was making a very loud horrible sound and smoke was coming out of it.

    This quote is the problem. DC should not have made sound. An oscillating amp WOULD though.

    Until the amp(and even pre-amp) can be checked, there's no telling.

    p.s. Thanks, Face. I'll check em later to see if there's anything funky in the crossover design.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,205
    edited May 2008
    My complete guess is a single or multiple output tranny took a dump by shorting out or going into thermal runaway, etc. He stated the channel in question has the output meter pegged when he powered it up without a load. DC usually doesn't cause that.

    But, that's my armchair analysis.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited May 2008
    I agree with the sound. If you hook a 9v battery to the leads of a driver, you get no oscillation and thus no sound. I'm not ruling out DC, but it would have been pulsing or switched or something to create sound.

    Sorry of your loss man and good luck trouble shooting.
    Jake
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2008
    So sorry to hear. Hope you get all items back up.

    engtaz
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,197
    edited May 2008
    DC would either throw the driver in or out to the extreme. The amount of power from the leakage would determine the extent of damage to the drivers. That's probably why he feels the scraping when he manually pushes them in. Some welding has been done unfortunately.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • joeparaski
    joeparaski Posts: 1,865
    edited May 2008
    First of all, I want to thank you guys for your offer to help....I totally didn't expect that and I want to let you know that it is a heartfelt thank you and just strengthens my belief in the value of the Polk Community here.

    I'm not sure how to tell which are the 6503's or MW611's because the drivers all look the same. I took them all out of the speaker cabinet and marked their positions. The top two drivers move freely but have a strong burnt odor. The 3rd one is scratchy and smells burnt. The bottom one hardly moves and smells burnt. The lone driver on the right doesn't move at all and smells burnt. The tweeter is visually destroyed.

    I didn't take pictures of the drivers because visually they look normal. I removed the crossover and took a couple of pictures. The burnt smell is there but not as strong as the drivers. I don't know what to look for in terms of damage.

    tweet.jpg


    xover1.jpg


    xover2.jpg



    This is from the right speaker only, I haven't opened the left one yet.


    Joe
    Amplifiers: 1-SAE Mark IV, 4-SAE 2400, 1-SAE 2500, 2-SAE 2600, 1-Buttkicker BKA 1000N w/2-tactile transducers. Sources: Sony BDP CX7000es, Sony CX300/CX400/CX450/CX455, SAE 8000 tuner, Akai 4000D R2R, Technics 1100A TT, Epson 8500UB with Carada 100". Speakers:Polk SDA SRS, 3.1TL, FXi5, FXi3, 2-SVS 20-29, Yamaha, SVS center sub. Power:2-Monster HTS3500, Furman M-8D & RR16 Plus. 2-SAE 4000 X-overs, SAE 5000a noise reduction, MSB Link DAC III, MSB Powerbase, Behringer 2496, Monarchy DIP 24/96.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,197
    edited May 2008
    That tweet is definitely shot but the x-over appears to be ok. Minimal damage and a cheap fix if anything there.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited May 2008
    Hey Joe.
    Looks like the boards are fine, and the inductors. The resistors can be burnt without any visible damage. Take an ohm meter, and read the resistance across the resistor. If you don't get a reading that matches the rating for that resistor then you are in luck. Now that you have it apart its a good time to upgrade the XO. At least replace the 2 12uf's per side, and replace the resistors with Mill's. That 2ohm 25watt doesn't appear to be stock. Double check the other speakers XO to see if it has the same setup.

    BTW the 6511 is the sigle dimensional driver, and the 6503's are the stereo drivers.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,205
    edited May 2008
    I'd say if the "sand" resistors aren't discolored and the PC board looks fine you might be alright. Many times the resistor gets hot underneath and that's where the discoloration is. That's what I found on my 5B's after the resistor was removed. Your's look normal, even the slightly cooked one in my 5B had a slight brownish discoloration on the top.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited May 2008
    That sucks Joe. Hope all works out.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • shadowofnight
    shadowofnight Posts: 2,735
    edited May 2008
    PM me your address...I'll send you a free unmelted working SL-3000 ( The one on the left ;) ) ....I had a nice pair and dissected one in the name of science...didnt touch the other one :D


    attachment.php?attachmentid=33171&d=1210373263
    The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2008
    Well I agree that the cross over looks in surprising good shape considering the event. Looking at the crossover schematic I would check all woofers on both speakers. I would also have the other amp, or the other have of amp as it does appear that dc could be feed back into the amp from the other amp failure by that sda cable.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • dacoupedeville
    dacoupedeville Posts: 83
    edited May 2008
    Laso and Shadow....you guys are awesome. I have no spare parts to offer, but I would if I could. My heart dropped when I read this thread. Hang in there Joe, help is on the way!
    HT: SRT's.....Pioneer SC95, Oppo 105D; ps4; Mitsubishi 1080p 82" DLP; DirecTV

    2 ch: SRS 1.2tl's.....Odyssey Stratos monos, Dynaco PAS pre w/Mods, Arcam DV-135, Music Hall MMF 5, AQ wires

    Bedroom: SRS 3.1tl's, RTA 8T (phantom center), Pioneer sc-lx701, Mitsubishi 1080p 82" DLP, DirecTV, ps3

    Car: SR 6500's.....Planet Audio HVT752 tube hybrid amps (2), Alpine dvd-a double din HU, two 12" Kicker's
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