bass managment issues???

nellis8166

im new to this so be gentle.
want to be audiophile trying so put together a nice system one piece at a time.
recently upgraded to a HK AVR 525.
earlier this week was able to purchase LSI9's and LSIC, using RTI28s as surrounds until i get the cash to replace them.
anyway, having a hard time getting the proper balance and settings.
large or small and what should the crossover be set at???
cd's lack in bass, but dvd's acceptable. looking to get a nice balance for the two.
biggest question is what should the large or small speakers settings be set at and what should the crossover be set at? i like strong bass, but not overpowering. using an infinity entra 2 sub.
i know that testing is the best way to find the best setting, but does anybody want to share similar experiance???

thanks
nat

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

I run all my speakers at small, I run my crossover at 75 hz. Subwoofer volume at half way. My treble at -1. My LFE on DTS at +2, and my Bass regulary set at 0

nellis8166

sid,
what are you using for a amp/receiver??? where to you have your sub placed??? right now mine is on to the right and behind of the main right speak in a corner. it's in a corner and only about 3 inches from the wall. thinking about moving it out more because heavy bass seems boomy. any ideas???

Dr. Spec

Read my other post to your large/small question.

I recommend small and 80-100 Hz at a crossover. Place your sub in a corner. If its boomy, experiment with placement, but stick near a corner. Calibrate all your speaks with an SPL meter and test tones or a disc like Avia or Video Essentials. How to calibrate your system has been discussed here at length - a little searching of the forum should get you into several threads on the subject.

Doc

Devildog

Should powered towers and f/x 1000's be set to small also? The only other question I have is whether to turn one sub completly off when trying to set the SPL to 80 and then do the same for the other sub. The subs are a Polk PSW650 and and HSU VT-2. The Polk sub is in the front corner of the room (outside the two mains) and the HSU is on the one wall in the rear, not quite all the way back to the rear corner.

danger boy

Devildog. man you must be pumping some serious bass in your room.. two powered towers.. a PSW650 AND if that wasn't enough. a HSU VT-2 damn.. I think i can hear it from here.

hey how do you like the VT-2? I really want one of those.. that's about the only HSU sub i can remotely afford.

Dr. Spec

Devildog:

If you can stack or co-locate the subs in a corner - do it. Co-located subs minimize nulls and standing waves, and maximize bass output and in room extension. Calibrate each one separately because they are obviously different in efficiency. After calibration, run them both, and then lower the overall sub volume at the receiver to get your desired coupled-sub LFE level.

Doc

Devildog

Thanks for the replies, guys. Yes, danger boy, theres a lot of woofers but I think more important is the set-up of the equipment. I have the SPL meter from Rat Shack and the Avia DVD and I have read up on the subject, including this forum, which I find very helpful (and sometimes very funny with all those personalities) but theres nothing like hands-on, been there/done that experience. I copied Dr. Spec's original post on set up and printed it out so I wouldn't have to rely on my aging memory, but every time I turn around, a new question pops up. Do I "stack" the subs? One first or both at the same time (already answered), small or large (the center is a CS1000). I sure wish one of you guys was closer to Chicago. Well, Merry Christmas and God bless each and every forum member. Rick

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

I use a yammer, It isnt turned up that much when put on +2. My subwoofer is also not in a corner, so that might make it all the different.

Dr. Spec

When you have powered towers and a powered center, the large vs. small issues becomes more difficult.

That's why I've always shied away from that type of speaker - invariably the bass reproduction (extension and air moving capability) of powered towers and a powered center still can't compare to that of dedicated subs.

And you've got a lot of subbage. Stack them if you can (smaller foot print) or at least place them in the same corner. I predict you will be astounded at the increase in bass power and extension over your current opposing corner set-up.

Re: "large" - having several (mains, center, surrounds) full range bass sources in the room - may create all sorts of funny room nodes that will conspire against obtaining a flat bass response. On this reason alone many experts recommend small regardless of the bass capabilities of the mains and/or other speaks.

I think of my "full range" mains, center, and surrounds as nothing more than glorified satellites. Because of their size and driver quality and quantity, they sound better, can fill a room better, can play louder, and have much better mid bass capability (still very important even on small) than typical tiny satellites.

Doc

Devildog

Doc,
Should the one firing down be on top or should the 650? I know I should let my ears help to decide but please offer a recommended starting setup. I am using a Denon 4800 with a POA5200 to the front mains and the other five channels are driven by the 4800. The Denon lets me set the speakers to large and Subwoofer-Yes but I'm going to experiment with all set to small. Thanks and Merry Christmas.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Devildog
Doc,
Should the one firing down be on top or should the 650? I know I should let my ears help to decide but please offer a recommended starting setup. I am using a Denon 4800 with a POA5200 to the front mains and the other five channels are driven by the 4800. The Denon lets me set the speakers to large and Subwoofer-Yes but I'm going to experiment with all set to small. Thanks and Merry Christmas.

It's a toss-up on stacking. The footprints are nearly the same 650 = 17.5"x19"; VTF-2 = 16"x19.5". If stacking doesn't work, co-locate them in a corner - just let the vents breathe.

Instead of steering you down a path I haven't even seen, I'll recommend the following, which I just did and it was fun and informative:

Burn a CD with MP3 test tones (I can email you the zipped file - it is 6 meg) and run a bass sweep in the room at the listening position with your Rat Shack meter, plot the results in Word or Excel, and see which of the various set-ups and configurations gives you the flattest FR.

Make sure to factor in the RS meter correction factors for bass at:
http://members.tripod.com/~terryctheater/shivaphotoalbum/page11.html

Then run some DVDs with lots of bass and measure SPL bass peaks at the seat and see if you are getting good slam for HT. If you are satisfied with the FR and the slam, I'd use that particular set-up.

It boils down to what works in your room with your gear. Your final set-up might seem unconventional or counterintuitive, but if you can prove it's the best in your room, that's all that matters.

Doc


Then see which set-up gives you the most slam (SPL) for HT.

Devildog

Doc, Thank you so much for your valuable suggestions. I'm going to try some of these things out over the weekend. As with everything else in this world, there is always too little time and I want to be able to devote a solid block of time to this project. If you email me the file, I will burn a copy sometime before I start. My email address is <devildawg@attbi.com> Rick