Tube Warm Up

nikolas812
nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
edited April 2008 in 2 Channel Audio
How long do tubes need to warm up before sounding there best.

I started listening the other day after about five minutes of warm up and I thought I had a tube going bad. I don't know how to explain what I was hearing. It was almost like a light distortion at all volume levels. Almost fuzzy. Still listenable but not like it should be. I was getting real worried but then about 30 -45 minutes into it. BAM! Cystal clear sweet tube music.

I checked my bias and noticed they have went down a few millivolts. I haven't checked them lately but are my power tubes wearing out? They have been stable for the most part. This is the first drop I have ever seen in these tubes. I didn't buy the new. They came with the amp when I bought a few months ago.

I would hate for these tubes to die. I have not found a reissue that I like. These were the best and I don't know what they are.:(

Sorry for the rant. Coffee is kicking in and tubes are warming up.:D
Post edited by nikolas812 on
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  • markmarc
    markmarc Posts: 2,309
    edited April 2008
    Nicholas:
    I give my Jolida cdp and Onix tube amp at least 45 minutes to warm up, but usually a good hour, The wait is worth it!
    Review Site_ (((AudioPursuit)))
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited April 2008
    I think so..

    Thats what I am doing Right now. Giving it about 45 minutes to an hour and then I am going to get my listen on.:cool:

    I love tubes and coffee in the morning.:)
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,963
    edited April 2008
    Make sure you have them biased correctly,too high and the life span of those tubes will be shortened considerably.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
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    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

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    Grant Fidelity tube dac
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited April 2008
    Actually, it's the opposite, to low bias and you will burn them up.

    Bias is the negative voltage applied to a tube's control grid which allows the tube to stay within its operational parameters for your specific amplifier.

    Too much bias, the amp will sound like crap. Too little, tubes can overheat and fail, taking output transformers and possibly other parts in the circuit with them.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited April 2008
    There set right at factory specs at 40 mV's.

    I was running them at the low side at 36mV's but when I noticed they fell off and were down to 33mV's I decided to keep them at 40 mV's. This way if they fall off anymore they will still be within tolerance.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited April 2008
    I usually do 30 minutes at the minimum.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited April 2008
    What Mark said...

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited April 2008
    How should I do the warm up?

    Like today since my CDP is tubed also I turned them both on at the same time. Then started a 45 min CD and turned the volume all the way down. I let the Cd play from beginning to end and then restarted the CD and started listening.

    By the way I noticed a immediate change. Very smooth and clean. I couldn't believe the difference.

    I think a lot of times I might have been turning everything off before it got sweet.:o
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited April 2008
    I suggest jumping jacks followed by 2 sets of squat thrusts.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited April 2008
    Huh. I never thought of that..

    I'll try it next time.;)
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,963
    edited April 2008
    Correct Russ,I had it backwards,duh!:)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited April 2008
    You guys are extreme. There's no need to wait longer than a couple of minutes for tubes to warm up.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited April 2008
    Early B. wrote: »
    You guys are extreme. There's no need to wait longer than a couple of minutes for tubes to warm up.

    I agree. If my tubes sounded unpleasant at first, that wouldn't be acceptable and I would be looking to change out the tubes or the gear until the problem went away. I totally agree that tubes sound better after 30-60 minutes but initially they always sound quite good too.
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited April 2008
    Early B. wrote: »
    You guys are extreme. There's no need to wait longer than a couple of minutes for tubes to warm up.

    Maybe ....

    But it made a major difference.

    I think my EL34's my be on there last leg though... Theres no telling how many hours were on them before I got them and I do a lot of listening.

    I am looking at tubes as we speak. But i need to get a personal issue cleared up before I spend any money.

    I think I might end up keeping the amp.:)

    If so I might go all out and get some Mullard xf1's or xf2's after my personal issues are sorted out.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2008
    nikolas812 wrote: »
    If so I might go all out and get some Mullard xf1's or xf2's after my personal issues are sorted out.
    I have some Mullard EL34 re-issues on the way, I'll let you know what I think of them.

    As for warm up, about 10 minutes or so till it sounds ok.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited April 2008
    The sound on my amps opens up noticably after about 20 mins or so. It doesn't sound bad at first but sounds vieled.....it's been my experience on my other tube amps as well. YMMV.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited April 2008
    Face wrote: »
    I have some Mullard EL34 re-issues on the way, I'll let you know what I think of them.

    As for warm up, about 10 minutes or so till it sounds ok.



    I'll be interested to hear what you think of them....

    I was talking about NOS XF!'s or XF2's not re issues.
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited April 2008
    Gee whiz...all this waiting, for what. My Krell is up & running in less than 1/2 a second. I'm on my second beer before you guys ever start listening. I guess you could always run outside & wash the car, by then the tubes should be nice & toasty!!! :D
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited April 2008
    I love my tubes...

    You can take your Krell and ......

    Just kidding.:D
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited April 2008
    nikolas812 wrote: »
    I love my tubes...

    You can take your Krell and ......

    Just kidding.:D

    I went thru a tube phase for awhile there. I enjoyed them but then I realized that I was a SS guy at heart. It doesn't matter what you have as long as you enjoy it.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited April 2008
    pearsall001 wrote: »
    I went thru a tube phase for awhile there. I enjoyed them but then I realized that I was a SS guy at heart. It doesn't matter what you have as long as you enjoy it.

    Agreed.

    I realized that the tube vs. SS argument is a bunch of crap for the most part. It's simply a matter of choosing components wisely to fit your taste. The tube vs. SS debate may have had more merit 20 years ago or so, but not today.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited April 2008
    TroyD wrote: »
    The sound on my amps opens up noticably after about 20 mins or so. It doesn't sound bad at first but sounds vieled.....it's been my experience on my other tube amps as well. YMMV.

    I don't question your experience. I've experienced this, as well, but to a lesser degree. It would annoy me to wait for any extended period of time before I could sit down and enjoy my tunes. I guess it also depends on how one listens to music. Whereas many people pop in a CD while engaged in other activities, others (including myself) almost always sit down and listen.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Poee7R
    Poee7R Posts: 904
    edited April 2008
    TroyD wrote: »
    The sound on my amps opens up noticably after about 20 mins or so. It doesn't sound bad at first but sounds vieled.....it's been my experience on my other tube amps as well. YMMV.

    BDT

    This is how it is for me. But I dont wait, if Im in the mood to listen to tunes (which is usually always) then I fire it up and start playing, knowing that in a little while it'll sound better than it started.


    Dave
    Once again we meet at last.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited April 2008
    All of this can be avoided by keeping the rig on and warmed up, ready to go whenever you are ready to listen. This is what I do with my rig because whenever I turn it off it seems to take about three days to sound the way it should again. The only tube compliment I have is a tube front end.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited April 2008
    That's just silly. You and Madmax should sit in the sweatlodge and trade hallucinations.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited April 2008
    Well, it wasn't like this until I got the Odyssey Stratos amp. Definitely not a hallucination though. I don't even listen to it anymore until day three, it sounds that bad to me.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited April 2008
    Fair enough. How about you just ride on his shoulders and throw firecrackers at everyone at Polkfest?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Poee7R
    Poee7R Posts: 904
    edited April 2008
    None of my rigs really sound too bad playing from cold, but they all do sound better as they warm up. And thats one of the reasons i dont let my stuff run 24/7. I have a few different setups and no real schedule on when ill listen to anyone of them in particular.

    Actually, my new main speakers do take a little longer to warm up, and they do sound like a whole other animal, but i dont really mind letting em get there. I think its a cool effect actually, well sometimes.

    Thats a whole other thread though. :p


    Dave
    Once again we meet at last.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited April 2008
    That might be arranged.

    The differences in what I hear are not like the rig can't reproduce the frequencies, it's more of the sound stage being flat and all screwed up. The uppermost frequencies aren't accurate and a bit [hard to find the word]....harsh and not fluid. The bass output seems a little sloppy and the nuances aren't as detailed and pronounced as when the rig is on for three days. I'm currently on day two and I can still tell it is not up to par yet. I know that when I walk into the room and the temperature of the room is about 7-8 degrees hotter than the rest of the house, it's ready to go. Never had a rig that took so long to get ready before, but when it's ready it's worth the wait.

    One of the best ways I can describe what I hear would be if you were to take an amp that hasn't been used for a while with the hookups that have had a chance to oxidize and then you De-ox it, it's kind of like that if that makes sense.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • cubdog
    cubdog Posts: 835
    edited April 2008
    I turn them on and listen. Maybe I should wait an hour. Maybe I should buy new cables and power cords too.

    cubdog
    Shuguang Classic S8MK
    Emotiva XDA-2
    Bel Canto M300 mono blocks
    Bel Canto DAC 1.5
    Squeezebox Touch
    Sony SS-M7
    A/D/S L710
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