Car oxidization problem

ben62670

Well I haven't been driving it, and my car has real bad oxidization. What do you guys recommend for clearing it up?
Thanks
Ben

heiney9

A Clay Bar system. Is it black? I've had 2 black cars and both have had serious oxidation issues.

I used a clay bar system and it was 3 step process that I ended up doing over a Saturday and Sunday. Keeping the car indoors between each polishing/waxing session. I did it ALL by hand and it was PITA. Get a power buffer to save your sanity and your muscles.

I believe I used Meguires products.

The 2nd car I paid someone to do it because it's very labor intensive if you don't have a power buffer.

The car looked like wet glass when I got done so it works great. Do a Google search for clay bar detailing.

H9

VR3

Wax it regularly...

That would truly help prevent it from happening...ever.

Jstas

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

Wax it regularly...

That would truly help prevent it from happening...ever.

DING!




But I've used Mother's 3-step process and it works great. You get even better results with a $40 power buffer too. I've used the clay bar too and did not see results that were worth the extra effort needed. I also have reservations about rubbing a brick of dirt on my paint. I usually take precautions to keep cleaning supplies free of dirt to avoid scratching the paint.

MikeC78

Jstas wrote: »

DING!




But I've used Mother's 3-step process and it works great. You get even better results with a $40 power buffer too. I've used the clay bar too and did not see results that were worth the extra effort needed. I also have reservations about rubbing a brick of dirt on my paint. I usually take precautions to keep cleaning supplies free of dirt to avoid scratching the paint.

You don't just rub the clay on the paint, that's really not exactly how it's done. You need to keep the paint wet, by using a product it comes with, or by using running water, you need to also kneed and replace the clay when it gets dirty. No need to "rub" really hard, you are actually gliding the clay bar over the wet surface, if you rub, you'll only leave clay residue behind and obviously scratch the paint in the process.

Fireman32

Go with the clay bar from meguires. Ive used it many times with great results. Be careful with a buffer though you can burn the paint if you are not careful.

bigaudiofanatic

Mothers clay bar will be better compar them side by side and I saw the difference. They both do the same thing only mothers gets more out of the paint.

MikeC78

I used both, I also personally like the Mother's clay bar better. The clay seemed to "pull" more contaminates, and not stick as bad as the Meguires product.

Jstas

Fireman32 wrote: »

Go with the clay bar from meguires. Ive used it many times with great results. Be careful with a buffer though you can burn the paint if you are not careful.

You are not going to burn the paint with a buffer. It does not move fast enough and has a random orbit. A polisher will burn the paint and grind right through to bare metal.

A buffer, even with a dry foam applicator pad, will not burn paint. The sun beating down on your paint in an open parking lot on a 90+ degree day will heat your paint up more than a random orbit power buffer.

This is a power buffer:



They can be direct drive or random orbit. I have not seen a direct drive since the early 80's. They are safe to use on pretty much any modern automotive finish. They cause problems with lacquers and varnishes though but unless you have a car from the early 50's and earlier with original paint, I doubt you will have a problem.


You will have a problem with these.

This is a random orbit polisher:


This is a non-random orbit polisher:


These are essentially glorified angle grinders with foam pads. They operate at high RPM's and if you are using these to apply wax or other kinds of paint cleaners and conditioners, you are using it incorrectly. Even with polishing compounds, these will damage your paint. That is the whole intent, to take a small layer of paint off and reduce the scratching, pitting, UV damage and excessive oxidation. You will cause yourself to have a very expensive repair if you do not use one of these properly. They are very effective and produce outstanding results if used properly. They will destroy your finish if used improperly.

cmy330go

The clay bar will likely do little for the oxidation issue. Though I still recommend doing it, the primary purpose of clay bar is to remove small particles that have been embedded in the paint.

After running a clay bar over the car I would then use a good quality car POLISH not wax. A polish will remove oxidation and fine scratches from the surface. Then when you're done with that apply a good quality wax to prevent it from happening again.

From personal experience I have yet to be disappointed by a single Meguiars product. But as mentioned above Mother's also makes good car care products.

Hope this helps.

Jstas

MikeC78 wrote: »

You don't just rub the clay on the paint, that's really not exactly how it's done. You need to keep the paint wet, by using a product it comes with, or by using running water, you need to also kneed and replace the clay when it gets dirty. No need to "rub" really hard, you are actually gliding the clay bar over the wet surface, if you rub, you'll only leave clay residue behind and obviously scratch the paint in the process.

I know how they work and I don't care. Like I said, I have serious reservations about rubbing a brick of dirt on my paint. Whether it's "gliding" and lubed or not, you are still slapping dirt on your car and running it across the paint. I have used clay bars and after running a Mother's or Meguiar's 3-step process, I have seen very little benefit if at all from them. I don't use them and I don't recommend them.

nikolas812

Jstas wrote: »

You will have a problem with these.

This is a random orbit polisher:


They operate at high RPM's and if you are using these to apply wax or other kinds of paint cleaners and conditioners, you are using it incorrectly. Even with polishing compounds, these will damage your paint.


Thats funny because that is all we use in our body shop. And it is also what the auto paint supply store sells.

The power buffer you recommend is a joke.

But...... They are good for inexperienced people.

As for the pro... I don't think you will see anything but what you call a random orbit polisher in the body shop.

They will only damage paint if you don't know what you are doing.;)

MikeC78

That goes the same way with waxing, you'll be rubbing the dirt/grime in the paint with the cloth if you don't clay. The clay will "pick-up" the particles. The key is keeping the clay and paint wet at all times, you'll not scratch the paint unless you completely don't know what you're doing.

No need to get all defensive, or come off as a know it all, I'm not attacking you, relax. I'm trying to educate the OP or others who have never used them before.

bigaudiofanatic

I agree 100% MikeC78 wash clay wax there you go.

Jstas

nikolas812 wrote: »

Thats funny because that is all we use in our body shop. And it is also what the auto paint supply store sells.

The power buffer you recommend is a joke.

But...... They are good for inexperienced people.

As for the pro... I don't think you will see anything but what you call a random orbit polisher in the body shop.

They will only damage paint if you don't know what you are doing.;)

I didn't recommend anything. I explained the difference between a buffer and a polisher. A buffer is not a joke and they work very well. Especially if you have a large vehicle to work on. My vehicle has an immense amount of paint and if I do it by hand, it's about 12-14 hours of work. If I use my power buffer, it's down to about 3-4 hours. They are meant to approximate a hand waxing job. There is no need to polish an entire car every time you want to wax it and unless the oxidation is excessive, there are plenty of products on the market that will fix the situation. Besides, no body shop I know will waste time with a car if all it needs is a good cleaning and a wax job. They will sooner refer you to a good detailer than take the work in for themselves.

If you are using a random orbit polisher to wax your car and are an experienced professional, then you have just given the exception to the rule. If you are a pro then obviously you have the experience to know how to use it properly. I still think you are taking an unnecessary risk but that is just my opinion. But, for every "pro shop" you can show me that abhors the use of a random orbit buffer and thinks it's "a joke", I can find you an equal number that thinks using a random orbit polisher for a wax job isn't the brightest idea in the world either.

I'm not looking to start a pissing contest or get into a big, chest thumping argument on who and/or what is better at what. I'm just interested in dispelling misinformation and giving solid, real world advice. If this was a board full of professional detailer and paint finishers, you wouldn't even see me post anything. This is an audio board and I have more experience with fixing and refinishing all kinds of surfaces on all kinds of things than most people. Am I a pro? No, I'm not but I'm not going to give bad advice either. If I am not sure what needs to be done or what the proper equipment is, I'll defer to someone with more experience than me. But my experience comes from doing things the hard way sometimes and even **** it up. I'm just trying to keep people from making obvious mistakes or repeating the not-so-obvious mistakes that burned me in the past too.

nikolas812

Jstas wrote: »

I didn't recommend anything. I explained the difference between a buffer and a polisher. A buffer is not a joke and they work very well. Especially if you have a large vehicle to work on. My vehicle has an immense amount of paint and if I do it by hand, it's about 12-14 hours of work. If I use my power buffer, it's down to about 3-4 hours. They are meant to approximate a hand waxing job. There is no need to polish an entire car every time you want to wax it and unless the oxidation is excessive, there are plenty of products on the market that will fix the situation. Besides, no body shop I know will waste time with a car if all it needs is a good cleaning and a wax job. They will sooner refer you to a good detailer than take the work in for themselves.

If you are using a random orbit polisher to wax your car and are an experienced professional, then you have just given the exception to the rule. If you are a pro then obviously you have the experience to know how to use it properly. I still think you are taking an unnecessary risk but that is just my opinion. But, for every "pro shop" you can show me that abhors the use of a random orbit buffer and thinks it's "a joke", I can find you an equal number that thinks using a random orbit polisher for a wax job isn't the brightest idea in the world either.

I'm not looking to start a pissing contest or get into a big, chest thumping argument on who and/or what is better at what. I'm just interested in dispelling misinformation and giving solid, real world advice. If this was a board full of professional detailer and paint finishers, you wouldn't even see me post anything. This is an audio board and I have more experience with fixing and refinishing all kinds of surfaces on all kinds of things than most people. Am I a pro? No, I'm not but I'm not going to give bad advice either. If I am not sure what needs to be done or what the proper equipment is, I'll defer to someone with more experience than me. But my experience comes from doing things the hard way sometimes and even **** it up. I'm just trying to keep people from making obvious mistakes or repeating the not-so-obvious mistakes that burned me in the past too.

Fair enough.;)

I probably took offense to something I shouldn't have.

You are right though.. We don't wax anything. If we do it is our own cars and by hand with a meguiars paste wax.

The only time we use the polisher is for a show car or if there are imperfections(dirt) in the clear after we paint a car. Then we will wet sand and buff them out as needed.

Sorry to derail your thread Ben.

I can't really give any good advice for oxidation.

Anything that comes in the body shop with oxidation usually gets wet sanded and buffed or completely repainted in the bad areas. Which is something I wouldn't recommend to a novice.

Good luck though. There seems like plenty of good adivice here so far.

Or at least a debate on using clay.:D

heiney9

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

Wax it regularly...

That would truly help prevent it from happening...ever.

Not really. It will keep a car nicer longer, but black cars in particular will oxidize even if you use the best wax regularly. Now if you car is a show car and doesn't really get out in the elements.......then yes.

As mentioned the Meguires 3 step process seems to be the best and yes if using the clay bar there is a solution you use with it.

heiney9

MikeC78 wrote: »

No need to get all defensive, or come off as a know it all, I'm not attacking you, relax. I'm trying to educate the OP or others who have never used them before.

Have you encountered Jstas before................that's his modus operandi; resident know it all with a very short fuse. Entertaining at times but he needs to let things go; he's wound way too tight!! :eek:

H9

heiney9

Jstas wrote: »

I know how they work and I don't care. Like I said, I have serious reservations about rubbing a brick of dirt on my paint. Whether it's "gliding" and lubed or not, you are still slapping dirt on your car and running it across the paint. I have used clay bars and after running a Mother's or Meguiar's 3-step process, I have seen very little benefit if at all from them. I don't use them and I don't recommend them.

You should try it; when done properly the results are better than you could ever get with waxing and polishing. Use Google; you'll see your reservations are completely unfounded.

I've used it (properly) on several black cars (which tend to show more scratches than most colors) and it does a SUPERB job.

If you had issues perhaps you weren't doing it correctly.

heiney9

Jstas wrote: »

I have seen very little benefit if at all from them. I don't use them and I don't recommend them.

The clay bar process gives the best advantage if you have moderate to heavy oxidation. Perhaps because of the color of your car and the age there was very little oxidation.

Lighter colors don't seem to suffer as much oxidation as say a black or gray car. The 2 black cars I owned oxidized very quickly and the clay bar worked flawlessly.

MikeC78

heiney9 wrote: »

Have you encountered Jstas before................that's his modus operandi; resident know it all with a very short fuse. Entertaining at times but he needs to let things go; he's wound way too tight!! :eek:

H9

I guess we all don't know jack **** around here, and when he posts we can't post a response.:rolleyes:

Jstas

What's the problem? I said I don't like using clay bars. I HAVE used them and saw minimal benefit. I don't recommend them because even when used properly, I still don't see the benefit. I'm allowed to have my opinion. I haven't tried to dissuade anyone to not use them, I have only said my findings were not as positive as others and I forgo the use and still get exemplary results.

Search the internet all you want, you can find as many people saying they don't work as you can finding people who swear by them. All I said was that I don't use them and I don't recommend them. I'm not telling anyone not to use them, I am just saying that if someone asks me about clay bars, my answer is neutral and my experience was nothing to write home about so I don't bother. Added work for little benefit. If that makes me a "know-it-all" then everyone else here is too 'cause I have done nothing different. I just happen to have a differing opinion so that automatically paints me in a negative light because I don't agree with the masses.

One last thing, heiney9, don't confuse UV damage with oxidation. UV damage is more pronounced on black cars because black is the absence of color and absorbs all light. The darker the color, the more UV light gets absorbed to damage it. It looks similar to oxidation but oxidation is a chemical breakdown of the paint due to corrosion caused by oxygen in water. UV damage is caused by UV radiation weakening the molecular bonds of the molecules in the paint and causing them to break down. No amount of polishing and waxing will fix UV damage. Darker colors are more susceptible to UV damage. Any color can oxidize and it's usually a result of negligent care of the painted surface and the affects of things like dirt from exhausts and road dirt interacting with lovely stuff like acid rain or just rain. If you live near an ocean, saltwater does it too.

cmy330go

Taken directly from Meguiar's FAQ.

7. Does clay remove scratches and swirls?

No, clay does not remove scratches and swirls. Keep in mind, scratches, swirls, oxidation and stains are all imperfections that are below the surface and require a specialized paint cleaner such as ScratchX or Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner. Clay, on the other hand, is designed specifically for above surface bonded contaminants, such as tree sap mist, industrial fallout, over-spray and road tar. It is important to evaluate your surface to determine which method of imperfection correction your paint may require. In some cases your vehicle may require the use of both clay and paint cleaners for optimal results.



My recommendation is to just go to Meguiar's site and do some reading. You will find far more accurate and concise info there.

bigaudiofanatic

Looks like clay works for me. "one of my detailing jobs.":D:rolleyes:Before After

heiney9

Jstas, in your opinion is UV damage reversible? The reason I ask is after using the 3 step process with the clay bar my paint looked new. It was very deep and glossy which led me to believe most of what I removed was oxidation. I'm sure with it being a black car there's probably a bit of both going on. It was my understanding that the clearcoat gave some protection to UV damage.

I have seen black cars with what I assume is severe UV damage because the paint is almost purple in some areas and look faded and worn. That is not what is going on with my black car. After the process it was a very deep finish, high gloss and I could see my self in the paint.

You are correct proper washing and waxing will keep oxidation from building up quickly but it will eventually. It does depend on where you live, if you car is kept in a garage and for me in the Midwest the weather is brutal to a paint job even if you take proper care.

H9

heiney9

cmy330go wrote: »

Taken directly from Meguiar's FAQ.

7. Does clay remove scratches and swirls?

No, clay does not remove scratches and swirls. Keep in mind, scratches, swirls, oxidation and stains are all imperfections that are below the surface and require a specialized paint cleaner such as ScratchX or Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner. Clay, on the other hand, is designed specifically for above surface bonded contaminants, such as tree sap mist, industrial fallout, over-spray and road tar. It is important to evaluate your surface to determine which method of imperfection correction your paint may require. In some cases your vehicle may require the use of both clay and paint cleaners for optimal results.



My recommendation is to just go to Meguiar's site and do some reading. You will find far more accurate and concise info there.

;););)

bigaudiofanatic

Or mothers www.waxforum.com

ben62670

Thanks guys. I was kinda planning on using Mother's. When I got the car it was pretty rough. I will have to do before, and after shots on this one. It is a medium green. The paint is fairly thin. Hopefully I can resurrect it without doing too much damage.
Thanks
Ben

Jstas

heiney9 wrote: »

Jstas, in your opinion is UV damage reversible? The reason I ask is after using the 3 step process with the clay bar my paint looked new. It was very deep and glossy which led me to believe most of what I removed was oxidation. I'm sure with it being a black car there's probably a bit of both going on. It was my understanding that the clearcoat gave some protection to UV damage.

I have seen black cars with what I assume is severe UV damage because the paint is almost purple in some areas and look faded and worn. That is not what is going on with my black car. After the process it was a very deep finish, high gloss and I could see my self in the paint.

You are correct proper washing and waxing will keep oxidation from building up quickly but it will eventually. It does depend on where you live, if you car is kept in a garage and for me in the Midwest the weather is brutal to a paint job even if you take proper care.

H9

Call a body shop and ask them. I don't need to be called a "know-it-all with a very short fuse" and "wound too tight" and then asked for my opinion all in the same thread.

heiney9

Jstas wrote: »

Call a body shop and ask them. I don't need to be called a "know-it-all with a very short fuse" and "wound too tight" and then asked for my opinion all in the same thread.

Well so much for for the olive branch and trying to be civil.

Have a nice day!

jflail2

heiney9 wrote: »

Well so much for for the olive branch and trying to be civil.

Have a nice day!

What else can you do....

It's been an interesting read anyway.