Comparing components/speakers

NJPOLKER

Is it possible to compare speakers/components by listening to left channel and right channel with different speakers/components in each speaker? It does not seem possible. What would you do, turn the balance knob back and forth, which is not an accurate compairson, a joke and you have to be a fool to think its a decent compairson. I think the only accurate way would be to have two pair of speakers with one pair one way and the other pair the other option. I know thats not going to happen often but for people to make that kind of compairsons and feel it holds water is wrong and gives new guys like me incorrecr information.
Just my opinion,
Drew

dcmeigs

NJPOLKER wrote: »

you have to be a fool to think its a decent compairson

A fair statement.

But, I would think that if you had been listening to your speakers for a good while and you made a significant upgrade, you would be able to hear the new sound, and remember the old sound, and sense the difference. Just like you would see the difference a face-lift or breast-enhancement makes on a co-worker and be able to remember the old and describe the difference. You could also miss it entirely like when the co-worker shaves his mustache without your notice.

Problem is we have an extensive inventory of language we are adept at using to describe the visual, while the language used to describe the auditory is arcane and challenging for most of us.

I changed tweeters today and after lots of effort was able to hear a small difference but I lack the vocabulary to describe the difference in terms others can use to determine whether it would be something they would want to do. If however, you need help describing a face-lift or ****-job, I'm your man.

NJPOLKER

God I love women with breast implants. However my thoughts are aimed at trying to compare changes/upgrades by doing a left channel vs right channel. If both channels were always 100% equal in sound then maybe but thats not the way it works.

dcmeigs

I think your premise was that it was foolish to try and I agreed by saying that your's was a fair statement. My comment was that it was not necessary to have a set of before and after speakers for comparison.

Boywonder

dcmeigs wrote: »

Just like you would see the difference a face-lift or breast-enhancement makes on a co-worker and be able to remember the old and describe the difference. You could also miss it entirely like when the co-worker shaves his mustache without your notice.

If my co-worker got a boob-job and shaved his mustache I would probably notice......

Seriously, I think the L-R balance type comparisons work well for comparing an upgraded x-over, tweeter, etc to the stock speaker since everything else is the same but the upgrade. I usually connect both speakers to the same channel for a fair comparison, so no stereo. That being said, you can't do much "imaging" comparison without a pair of speakers that are configured the same connected to L-R channels. My tube preamp also limits my ability to do the L-R balance comparisons since it only attenuates the opposite channel 6 db when turned full right or left, so there is always signal coming out of the opposite speaker.

After the short L-R comparison, I usually listen to the upgraded speaker pair with about 3-4 different music tracks multiple times since I am very familiar with these tracks. Some changes are obvious, and some are more subtle.

TroyD

I doubt that there are many folks that have hearing good enough to make the L/R distinctions with any amount of validity.

BDT

candyliquor35m

Left vs right is my favorite and most reliable test method.

Next time I compare components like a cdp, I hope to run one cdp to the left channel and the other cdp to the right channel and then play the same cd in both cdps at the same time.

Face

candyliquor35m wrote: »

Left vs right is my favorite and most reliable test method.

Next time I compare components like a cdp, I hope to run one cdp to the left channel and the other cdp to the right channel and then play the same cd in both cdps at the same time.

Unless both recordings are in mono, that's a terrible idea. Even so, it's still a bad idea.

heiney9

candyliquor35m wrote: »

Left vs right is my favorite and most reliable test method.

Next time I compare components like a cdp, I hope to run one cdp to the left channel and the other cdp to the right channel and then play the same cd in both cdps at the same time.

So I guess you never listen to stereo recordings?:rolleyes:. The method is flawed but if it blows your skirt up then by all means keep doing it.

I know when I demo a new TV I set them side by side with the same signal and close my left eye and use my right eye for the TV on the right; then I close my right eye and use my left eye for the TV on the left. Works every time even though the guys at BB and CC are calling the wagon to take me to a rubber room.

Running a mono signal, ie; using the balance for left and right for (2) different components is a piss poor way to determine differences because the exact same signal is not present on both the L and R channel; hence why the term STEREO is used.

For Carl:

Stereophonic sound, commonly called stereo, is the reproduction of sound, using two or more independent audio channels, through a symmetrical configuration of loudspeakers.

During two-channel stereo recording, two microphones are placed in strategically chosen locations relative to the sound source, with both recording simultaneously. The two recorded channels will be similar, but each will have distinct time-of-arrival and sound-pressure-level information. During playback, the listener's brain uses those subtle differences in timing and sound-level to triangulate the positions of the recorded objects.

Stereo recordings often cannot be played on monaural systems without a significant loss of fidelity. Since each microphone records each wavefront at a slightly different time, the wavefronts are out of phase; as a result, constructive and destructive interference can occur, if both tracks are played back on the same speaker. This phenomenon is known as phase cancellation.

So much for your well thought out theory

H9

candyliquor35m

Face wrote: »

Unless

It would be in mono if I used the same channel of both cdp's to feed the pre-.

Mono is not all that important tho. The minor differences between the left and right in stereo doesn't concern me. If it appears to be a problem, I can reverse the channels to make sure it's not causing a major conflict.

candyliquor35m

heiney9 wrote: »

So I

You have a right to your opinion but mine works best for me. Knock yourself out trying to come up with a better and more simple one than left vs right.

Have a good day!

F1nut

Guys, he doesn't get it and never will. Blame it on the mercury or his neighbors parking in the street or the desperate need for attention or whatever. The bottom line is his ideas have zero credibility as proven time and time again. 29dB suck out, yeah that'll sound real good. :rolleyes:

heiney9

F1nut wrote: »

Guys, he doesn't get it and never will. Blame it on the mercury or his neighbors parking in the street or the desperate need for attention or whatever. The bottom line is his ideas have zero credibility as proven time and time again. 29dB suck out, yeah that'll sound real good. :rolleyes:

I'm refuting his idea by trying to give some facts to back up what we "normal" audiophiles realize. He is welcome to his idea's and his opinions and I don't want to take that away from him. But, if I see something that is illogical I'm going to put my .02c if for no other reason than to make sure someone unsuspecting person doesn't come along and think his opinions and ideas are golden.

I will admit it is growing tiresome but lately I've been bored to death so this is my "entertainment"

H9

F1nut

heiney9 wrote: »

I will admit it is growing tiresome

Nicely understated.

heiney9

F1nut wrote: »

Nicely understated.

I find being understated is the best way not to get random posts and entire threads deleted.

candyliquor35m

My comments win hands-down because you guys aren't offering a better solution/approach/method. You have nothing except personal attacks which we all know where those will get you

"I think the only accurate way would be to have two pair of speakers with one pair one way and the other pair the other option. I know thats not going to happen often"

So if this isn't likely to happen. I'll take the left vs right comparison over anything else anyone has suggested.

heiney9

candyliquor35m wrote: »

My comments win hands-down because you guys aren't offering a better solution/approach/method. You have nothing except personal attacks which we all know where those will get you

"I think the only accurate way would be to have two pair of speakers with one pair one way and the other pair the other option. I know thats not going to happen often"

So if this isn't likely to happen. I'll take the left vs right comparison over anything else anyone has suggested.

You know what you can do with those hands . Also I don't believe I have personally attacked you. Certainly your methods but never YOU on a personal level

heiney9

I also offered a viable and more sensible alternative. Similar in scope to what Darqueknight does. You must have forgotten or ignored that option I gave.

H9

candyliquor35m

heiney9 wrote: »

You know

No I wasn't talking about you.

Face

It must be nice to live in your own version of reality.

heiney9

candyliquor35m wrote: »

No I wasn't talking about you.

Fair enough.

candyliquor35m

Face wrote: »

It must

Your comments and f1's have nothing to do with this thread and offer nothing constructive to the discussion.

Have a nice day. I am

F1nut

As for better solution/approach/methods, they have been offered repeatedly by any number of folks including myself. Perhaps, your reading comprehension could use some improvement.

FYI, I didn't attack you, I simply offered possible explanations for your continued onslaught of bad ideas.

Sorry, my comments have everything to do with this thread. In fact, the rebuttals offered to your ideas are a service to the community at large. As H9 stated, " if for no other reason than to make sure someone unsuspecting person doesn't come along and think his opinions and ideas are golden."

candyliquor35m

I'm all ears. Let's hear your suggestions and why they work better for you than the left vs right method.

The left vs right works best for me for the reasons I've mentioned already. I can hear the positive and the negative differences between the 2 channels. Too often I think, the brain and ears only notice the positive differences if there are any and forget or don't pay attention to what is being lost between option a and option b.

Once again, you have nothing constructive to say.

F1nut

I see no point in repeating what has been posted a hundred times already, but if you need an excellent explanation as to why your L/R thing doesn't work, re-read post #9 in this thread.

As for not having anything constructive to say, I beg to differ. By posting rebuttals to your flawed ideas, I/we are doing the entire world of audio a great service.

candyliquor35m

Since the other options aren't worth repeating then they must not have any value or be worthy of this discussion.

The left vs right comparison win hands-down because no better methods and the logic behind them have been presented.

Everyone here is smart enough to make their own conclusions based on the methods presented.

I'm not saying left vs right is the best for every evaluation but I would venture to guess it is the best one available about 50% of the time.

I'm still not hearing anything constructive, just a broken record from your side.

F1nut

You really are dense, aren't you!?!

The only proper way to do a comparision is to listen to the original tweeters, for example, until you are familiar with the material. Then, after you install the new tweeters and after they break in, you listen to them using the same material, in STEREO! Your auditory memory will tell you what differences there are. Simple and it works. If you don't trust your ears, put the old tweeters back in for further comparision.

The same would apply to two sets of speakers, for example. You would never listen to one Polk speaker on the right and one Quad on the left as you'll never be able to tell what each speaker actually sounds like. You listen to each set in STEREO!

All of this has been said before, you just seem to chose to ignore it.

NJPOLKER

I honestly think candyliquor enjoys being combative far more than trying to contribute useful informative, sad and pathetic.
A friend of mine was asking me about comparing various speakers and upgrades. So I told him doing a right/left channel is a poor idea and decided to confirm my thoughts here. Thanks guys for your thoughts.
Drew

TroyD

Carl,

Why do you suppose that EVERY reviewer in EVERY major publication evaluates gear in the method that F1 describes and NOT ONE uses your methods? Could it possibly be because the intermodulation of two simultaneous sources confuses the issue to the extent that it makes it an unreliable example?

You aren't Christopher Columbus, dude. Credible audio journalists don't use your method, not because they haven't thought of it but because it isn't a viable way to properly evaluate performance.

You find me ONE credible audio journalist that subscribes to your hocus pocus.

BDT

candyliquor35m

TroyD wrote: »

Carl,

Why do you suppose

Point taken but I don't know of any well trained reviewers for major publications here including me so I have to use what works best for me. And if it works for me then it could very well work for at least 50% of everyone reading this.

I don't even consider myself a audiophile because that wreaks of being a snooty self-proclaimed know-it-all.

I do the best I can with my ears and brain but I'm confident in what I hear and what I don't hear enough to put my bad reputation on the line

Hell try it both ways and see what works best for you. I'm not ranting and raving about how your method sucks but I've tried it and it's not the best method for me.

dorokusai

NJPOLKER wrote: »

I honestly think candyliquor enjoys being combative far more than trying to contribute useful informative, sad and pathetic.
A friend of mine was asking me about comparing various speakers and upgrades. So I told him doing a right/left channel is a poor idea and decided to confirm my thoughts here. Thanks guys for your thoughts.
Drew

You should have punched your friend in the face, THEN told him it was a poor idea....follow up with "How 'bout THEM apples!".