Double Bass in Yo Face!!

Early B.

On a whim I purchased a couple of DIY passive subwoofers. The drivers are 10" Ascendant Audio subwoofers, but I'm not sure which ones. I've owned two different Ascendant Audio drivers before, so I know they are top notch. At first, I was skeptical about getting small drivers, but I didn't have the space for larger ones, so I figured I'd take a chance and try these out.

The seller made the cabinets from 3/4" plywood and they are heavily damped. They are 17" tall, 23" deep, and 12" wide. For some reason, he painted them white (yuck), so the first thing I did was to paint them black. It's got a textured finish. They ain't pretty and they definitely have the dreaded DIY look to them, but who cares?

Anyway, I'm temporarily powering them with the 6th & 7th channels of my multichannel amp (Emotiva LPA-1). It's only 95 wpc into 4 ohms, but enough to get the drivers to dance (actually, they hardly move -- a good thing). I'm using a Reckhorn B-1 bass management controller. It's a great little device, but don't ask me how the damn thing works. Someone else on this forum can field the technical questions.

OK, so I hooked it up last night to the Line Outs on my Emotiva LMC-1 and it works perfectly. I get bass all over the place. My initial impressions are very favorable. In fact, I love it and I'm glad I had the balls to try it. I have big **** "full range" front speakers -- each speaker has dual 12" woofers and a 12" passive radiator, but they still don't pump out the lowest bass. The subs make a HUGE difference! It has taken my system to another level.

BTW -- don't listen to those who tell you that your speakers are OK if they are flat to about 30 Hz because the vast majority musical instruments don't go any lower than that. You'd be surprised at what you're not hearing on your CDs (if that makes sense).

With music, the bass is very tight and tuneful. Sounds great. It sounds like an entire wall of sound. Some of my bass heavy music sounds entirely different with the subs, and I probably don't have the B-1 dialed in correctly yet. Hell, even a few of my jazz cuts have surprisingly deep bass.

OK, but what about HT? Well, think about adding two more killer subs to your HT system and you'll get an idea of what I'm hearing and feeling. I already have a kick **** VMPS sub with a 15" driver and 15" passive radiator, but it's never enough. Now I have three subs and the bass is ridiculous. My room size is 13' x 20' x 8'. And no, I haven't reached overkill yet.

Here are a couple of pics. The subs make my system look crowded. However, my wife didn't say a word. Yeah, I'm shocked, too.

VR3

Looks like you have the "Havoc" line.

Their upper end. The dust cap says so I think!

Looks DIY. I bet it sounds good though.

Early B.

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

Looks like you have the "Havoc" line.

Their upper end. The dust cap says so I think!

No writing on the dust cap. Is there any other way to tell without popping out the driver?

ben62670

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-464
these maybe?

Early B.

ben62670 wrote: »

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-464
these maybe?

Nope. Based on the specs the seller provided, I believe it is the Ascendant Audio Arsenal 10" driver.


EDIT: On second thought... I removed the port and peered at the driver, and it doesn't look like any of the Ascendant Audio drivers. I emailed the seller. I'm curious, but it doesn't really matter because I'm pleased with the sound.

wingnut4772

I like the symmetry you have going there now. It looks nice.

Midnite Mick

I would pull your stand out away from the wall and push the Emotiva gear in flush with the front of the stand......then put something under the legs in the back so that it is level. I think that would look better.

Early B.

Midnite Mick wrote: »

I would pull your stand out away from the wall and push the Emotiva gear in flush with the front of the stand......then put something under the legs in the back so that it is level. I think that would look better.

The Emotiva gear is too big to sit flush with the front of the stand.

Midnite Mick

Let the overhang be in the back rather than the front and then put something under the back of the gear so that it is level.

jm1

I think you are experiencing not only more of the foundation of the music, but also an increased ability of your system to reproduce the ambience cues of the recording. This additional attributes makes for a more realistic presentation.

Now that you know this combination provides better results, you might want to look at getting an active crossover having a crossover point one octave above the lower -3dB limit of your speakers.

Have fun experimenting.

Early B.

Midnite Mick wrote: »

Let the overhang be in the back rather than the front and then put something under the back of the gear so that it is level.

Still a no go. Three bars in the rear of the rack impede pushing the amp further back and would also make it even more difficult to access the rear connections on the amp.

I considered removing the amp and pre/pro, and setting them on another rack, then placing both subs underneath the rack by laying them on their sides. I probably won't do it because I like the bass separation.

Face

Having them hang off the front would drive me insane. Any way could put something under them to keep them level? Piece of silver painted wood that matches the rack or stained to match the walls?

Regardless, cool setup! I'm also a fan of the symmetry.

Early B.

Face wrote: »

Having them hang off the front would drive me insane. Any way could put something under them to keep them level? Piece of silver painted wood that matches the rack or stained to match the walls?

Regardless, cool setup! I'm also a fan of the symmetry.

The amp has two risers underneath in the front keep it "level."

Midnite Mick

I would love to hear your mains....can you ship them for a week or so? Thanks.:)

Early B.

Midnite Mick wrote: »

I would love to hear your mains....can you ship them for a week or so? Thanks.:)

It would be cheaper to ship you to the speakers.:p

Midnite Mick

Alright, that works for me too. Send me a ticket.

Early B.

Midnite Mick wrote: »

Alright, that works for me too. Send me a ticket.

Ticket? I was thinking a double box, a jumbo roll of bubble wrap, and some packing peanuts.

Early B.

Early B. wrote: »

Nope. Based on the specs the seller provided, I believe it is the Ascendant Audio Arsenal 10" driver.


EDIT: On second thought... I removed the port and peered at the driver, and it doesn't look like any of the Ascendant Audio drivers. I emailed the seller. I'm curious, but it doesn't really matter because I'm pleased with the sound.

The seller emailed me back and said it's a first generation Assassin. He also said Chad helped him with the design specs for the cabinets. Interestingly, the cabinets are lined with vinyl tile. It looks nicer on the inside.:eek:

pearsall001

jm1 wrote: »

I think you are experiencing not only more of the foundation of the music, but also an increased ability of your system to reproduce the ambience cues of the recording. This additional attributes makes for a more realistic presentation.

Now that you know this combination provides better results, you might want to look at getting an active crossover having a crossover point one octave above the lower -3dB limit of your speakers.

Have fun experimenting.

It's too bad others haven't grasped this yet. They really are short changing themselves by thinking that their speakers are "full range". Oh, what they're missing!

Early B.

pearsall001 wrote: »

It's too bad others haven't grasped this yet. They really are short changing themselves by thinking that their speakers are "full range". Oh, what they're missing!

I always knew my speakers weren't actually full range, but really didn't want to admit it because it meant major upgrades which translates into a lot more money that I wasn't willing to spend. Then I figured I'd try the more economical DIY route and I gotta say what I'm hearing vis-a-vis stereo bass is quite amazing.

The subs offer not only bass, but a whole new dimension to the music. The sound is fuller, deeper, and simply more realistic. For some reason, I can play it louder without fatigue, and the bass is often gut wrenching, even on music I hadn't heretofore considered bass-heavy. Because I can play music louder, I hear more subtleties, and the ones I faintly heard before are magnified. In essence, the music is as it should be (IMO, of course).

I also like the ability to tweak my system according to the music I'm listening to, if I so desire. I have tweakable speakers, a bass management system for the subs, and the potential to roll tubes in the CDP. I have a couple of other nice tweaks coming soon.

Midnite Mick

I have been a little confused about something (hell I am not that smart). Are the main speaker cables from the amp going into the subwoofer and then into the main speakers? Just not sure how we are stopping our mains from going as deep as what the crossover designed them to, without some sort of external crossover. I understand Brad is using a processor but for those with 2 channel pre and/or integrates, how is this accomplished?

Thanks,
Mike

pearsall001

Early B. wrote: »

I always knew my speakers weren't actually full range, but really didn't want to admit it because it meant major upgrades which translates into a lot more money that I wasn't willing to spend. Then I figured I'd try the more economical DIY route and I gotta say what I'm hearing vis-a-vis stereo bass is quite amazing.

The subs offer not only bass, but a whole new dimension to the music. The sound is fuller, deeper, and simply more realistic. For some reason, I can play it louder without fatigue, and the bass is often gut wrenching, even on music I hadn't heretofore considered bass-heavy. Because I can play music louder, I hear more subtleties, and the ones I faintly heard before are magnified. In essence, the music is as it should be (IMO, of course).

I also like the ability to tweak my system according to the music I'm listening to, if I so desire. I have tweakable speakers, a bass management system for the subs, and the potential to roll tubes in the CDP. I have a couple of other nice tweaks coming soon.

Isn't it amazing how the addition of a sub (or two) heightens the whole musical spectrum!! It's not just about bass...they add another whole dimension, more weight, deeper, wider, & higher soundstage, you hear musical passages you didn't even know were there before. There is only so much a pair of speakers can accomplish, & they pale in comparison when compared to the same system with a sub. It's all about maximizing the listening experience...we're on the right track!! Others are lagging behind.

What other tweaks are up your sleeve EB??? I'm a tweak freak myself. In fact I'm getting ready to add some Hammond 193M chokes. Stay tuned!

Early B.

Midnite Mick wrote: »

I have been a little confused about something (hell I am not that smart). Are the main speaker cables from the amp going into the subwoofer and then into the main speakers? Just not sure how we are stopping our mains from going as deep as what the crossover designed them to, without some sort of external crossover. I understand Brad is using a processor but for those with 2 channel pre and/or integrates, how is this accomplished?

No change in the mains at all. I only added a couple of subwoofers and they are controlled by a Reckhorn B-1. A similar setup can proabably be accomplished with a standard preamp by using a couple of y-cables on the outputs.

Early B.

pearsall001 wrote: »

What other tweaks are up your sleeve EB???!

Ah, that's the million dollar question. I ain't sayin' yet. I'm a wild & crazy guy, so I don't wanna stir the pot in case my plans don't unfold as anticipated. I'll report back in a week or two when I'm confident the stuff works.

Midnite Mick

Early B. wrote: »

No change in the mains at all. I only added a couple of subwoofers and they are controlled by a Reckhorn B-1. A similar setup can proabably be accomplished with a standard preamp by using a couple of y-cables on the outputs.

So then there is no "load" taken off the mains then. The mains are doing what they always have done. A lot of 2 channel pre's and integrates have 2 sets of outputs.

george daniel

And,, I thought that I was outta' control,, you sir,,,(Brad) have Platinum membership in that club :D,,,no response from the wife eh?,,,yet,,,

Early B.

Midnite Mick wrote: »

So then there is no "load" taken off the mains then. The mains are doing what they always have done.

Correct. I considered getting a Reckhorn F-1 so I could cut off the mains and only allow the subs handle the bass, but didn't want to place another set of circuits in the signal path of my speakers. I was initially concerned about overlapping frequencies produced by the the subs and the mains, but it's not an issue as far as I can tell.

Early B.

george daniel wrote: »

And,, I thought that I was outta' control,, you sir,,,(Brad) have Platinum membership in that club :D,,,no response from the wife eh?,,,yet,,,

If the wife hasn't responded yet, then she likes how it looks, but won't admit it. She hasn't heard them yet, either, so I'm sure she'll be impressed when she does.

Oh, by the way, you're way more out of control than me, sir. If I attempted to introduce a pair of Carver Amazings in my house...well, I can't imagine the fireworks that would ensue.

george daniel

Early B. wrote: »

If the wife hasn't responded yet, then she likes how it looks, but won't admit it. She hasn't heard them yet, either, so I'm sure she'll be impressed when she does.

Oh, by the way, you're way more out of control than me, sir. If I attempted to introduce a pair of Carver Amazings in my house...well, I can't imagine the fireworks that would ensue.

Actually,, I've got the plats and originals(they have not sold) in the bedroom,, the wife is being pretty good about it,,all things considered,,and I probabally am out of control,,, maybe it's time for some reflection and discovery.;)

Face

Early B. wrote: »

Correct. I considered getting a Reckhorn F-1 so I could cut off the mains and only allow the subs handle the bass, but didn't want to place another set of circuits in the signal path of my speakers. I was initially concerned about overlapping frequencies produced by the the subs and the mains, but it's not an issue as far as I can tell.

As long as there are no phase issues(canceling each other out) or delay issues from the electronics, it should work fine. My mains play full range regardless if my sub is on or not. Since my sub is located on the opposite side of the room, I had to make some adjustments for it to blend. Glad everything was plug and play for you.

VR3

If you were to crossover the VMPS speakers -- you would really eff with the PR tuning. I think that PR is tuned to like 17hz or so...

So crossing it over could effect the clarity of your bass and its overall response.