Worried about new set-up

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  • Bass_Pedal
    Bass_Pedal Posts: 196
    edited March 2008
    I'm going to do that today! If this $150 fix works, I will be an extremely happy man. I'll keep everyone posted as I'm sure others thinking of purchasing these speakers for music will want to know how this cable works with them. I'm also working on speaker placement and room acoustics in the mean time.

    Thanks again.
    Mains - Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand
    Subs - Rel T5 x 2
    Amplification - Bryston 3b cubed
    Pre Amp - Marantz Sc11-1
    SACD - Marantz Sa11-1
    Stream - Cambridge Audio CXN v2
    Dac - Marantz Dac-1
    TT - Pro-Ject RPM 9.1 w/ Ortofon 2M Black Cartidge
    Phono Stage - Project Tube box DS
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  • Bass_Pedal
    Bass_Pedal Posts: 196
    edited April 2008
    So it's been a couple of weeks,

    During this time I've been working on all kinds of variations on speaker placement as well as room acoustics and listening location. I also did what many would say was a step backward... It occurred to me that I had never listened to the Rtia7s using my HK AVR 8000 for amplification. I knew it was a relatively powerful amp in it's own right (rated higher that the Adcom) but assumed that a separate power amp would be better. Much to my surprise there was an improvement in the top end, while still bright, not bridal like it was before. I did some A/B comparisons just to make sure I wasn't inventing things, specifically I listened to the extended guitar solo from "Impossible Germany" off of Wilco's Sky Blue Sky. There was a definite increase in warmth and reduction in harshness. I've been using the HK since then. On top of this I received my Signal Cable Ultra speaker cables yesterday. All I can say about them is WOW! More than anything else, I noticed an increase in the width of the sound stage and a definite improvement in the separation of instruments. An excellent product to be sure. As for the reason I got them in the first place (to reduce brightness) so far I have noticed a significant difference, however as mentioned in a previous post, they aren't “cure-alls” They wont transform an RtiA7 into an Lsi15 (unfortunately:( )

    While I realize with only about 4 months of moderate use of these speakers there is still some break in to be done, however despite the improvements I have been able to achieve (also I burned in my CDP for over 180 hours) I think that these speakers are simply bright by nature, whether that will change in any sighificant way over time remains to be seen. I don't want to give up without giving them their fair shake, but I do have to admit I have been on the look out for a pair of Lsi9's on the used market for the last couple of weeks...
    Mains - Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand
    Subs - Rel T5 x 2
    Amplification - Bryston 3b cubed
    Pre Amp - Marantz Sc11-1
    SACD - Marantz Sa11-1
    Stream - Cambridge Audio CXN v2
    Dac - Marantz Dac-1
    TT - Pro-Ject RPM 9.1 w/ Ortofon 2M Black Cartidge
    Phono Stage - Project Tube box DS
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited April 2008
    Cables need to burn in also, but I don't think that's going to change the bright nature of your speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Gretsch6136
    Gretsch6136 Posts: 80
    edited April 2008
    Hey Bass Pedal,

    This may sound too simplistic, but have you tried turning the treble knob down a bit?
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited April 2008
    I am using the RTiA7's with both my Pioneer Elite and a Carver 772 with hardwood floors covered in throw rugs and have never found them too bright. With the Carver they sound fantastic. A little brighter with the Pioneer but not annoying. They are now about 4 months old.
    SDA-1C (full mods)
    Carver TFM-55
    NAD 1130 Pre-amp
    Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
    The Clamp
    Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
    Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
    Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
    Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
    Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
    ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
    Ben's IC's
    Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited April 2008
    F1nut wrote: »
    Cables need to burn in also, but I don't think that's going to change the bright nature of your speakers.

    Curious, could you point me to a site that explains this phenomenon? Seems like BS to me. IAAEE, BTW.

    Thx.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited April 2008
    What phenomenon?

    IAAEE? Are you an electrical engineer?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • strider
    strider Posts: 2,568
    edited April 2008
    maximillian wrote: »
    Curious, could you point me to a site that explains this phenomenon? Seems like BS to me. IAAEE, BTW.

    Thx.

    The site that pops into my mind first is my basement. It's where I have my rig set up.
    F1nut wrote: »
    What phenomenon?

    IAAEE? Are you an electrical engineer?

    Sounds to me like he's going down the hill of his first roller coaster....
    Wristwatch--->Crisco
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,963
    edited April 2008
    Don't ya know that if an internet "site" doesn't exist,then neither does the subject at hand.Didn't pops ever tell you there is no sustitute for experience?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited April 2008
    What is this IAAEE, I wondered? Well, curiosity got the better of me.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Association_for_the_Advancement_of_Ethnology_and_Eugenics

    Hmmmm.....not sure what that has to do with audio, but whatever.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,963
    edited April 2008
    I- international
    A-association of
    A-assfart
    E-emitting
    E-engineers

    Sounds more like it..:D
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited April 2008
    Hehehe.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited April 2008
    F1nut wrote: »
    What phenomenon?

    IAAEE? Are you an electrical engineer?

    Yes, I am an EE. Still waiting on a technical explanation of cable break-in. Strider, if your basement is the explanation, do you mind shipping it to upstate NY so I can analyze it? TonyB, I would welcome any source, the Internet is just convenient.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited April 2008
    .......and we're off!
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2008
    Break the lock off your wallet, buy some good gear and good cables, and you'll find out for yourself.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited April 2008
    treitz3 wrote: »
    .......and we're off!

    Agreed... personally I don't care, and I don't want to thread-jack anymore than I already have. I will not be responding on this issue.
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited April 2008
    I have a set of RTi6's for fronts that are quite bright for music. If I turn them up in order to get adequate bass response, they are way too bright. Supplementing the bass response with other speakers (generally not recommended) allows me to keep the volume down on the 6's. Then it sounds quite nice.

    Perhaps if you get a musical sub to push the lower end, then you can turn the volume down on the A7's.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited April 2008
    maximillian wrote: »
    Agreed... personally I don't care, and I don't want to thread-jack anymore than I already have. I will not be responding on this issue.

    Interesting.

    I'm sure you and I could have a civil conversation about the matter at hand, I'll start. I don't know of any websites that address your question/doubts as I've never looked for one, although I'm sure if one looked they could find just about anything on the net. Instead, I rely on my trusty ears, which have never let me down to date and they tell me that burn in is real. If you do a search here, you'll find a whole lot of other folks whom have heard it too.

    I'll have to take it that you don't believe and/or have not heard this, which begs the next question. What cables have you tried/listened to and with what gear?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited April 2008
    F1nut wrote: »
    Interesting.

    I'm sure you and I could have a civil conversation about the matter at hand, I'll start.

    I am sure we could, but this isn't the thread to do it in.
    F1nut wrote: »
    I'll have to take it that you don't believe and/or have not heard this, which begs the next question. What cables have you tried/listened to and with what gear?

    I have not heard the difference. My cables are rather generic (monoprice) and I only have the RTi line of speakers so I can't say if I could hear the difference if I had good cables. Also, I still have noob ears. My general rule of thumb is to find the heaviest gauge stranded wire with gold connectors where applicable. However, being an EE I don't see the technical reason for "burn-in". Also, I have found some websites that say it's BS, but there are many people who would fight to defend the opposite. But again, this isn't the thread for this I am only replying simply to be civil. I don't want to hijack this thread any more on this topic. Sorry.
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  • GEBBY44
    GEBBY44 Posts: 939
    edited April 2008
    The Signal Ultra's were a good fix for my friend with a similar setup with RTi10's and yes they will sound much better with more time. After about 100 hours, the Ultra's really opened up. Not that they didn't sound good before...Once the cables have been broken in well, you may want to try switching back to the Adcom. Although chances are if you don't like a bright system, it will still be too bright.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited April 2008
    ....
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited April 2008
    Max, don't worry this is hardly a hijack as hijacks go around here. I don't understand the technical reason for burn in either, but then again, I don't really care. In fact, there's a whole lot about this hobby were technical reasons don't make sense or even matter.

    To borrow H9's sig by a highly respected gentleman who has been in this hobby for a long time, "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not."--Nelson Pass

    I will say that the further up the audio ladder one climbs, the more evident things like cable burn in become.

    Enjoy!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Bass_Pedal
    Bass_Pedal Posts: 196
    edited April 2008
    I managed to acquire a pair of used Lsi9's from a local seller for $500 CND including stands. My ears have been opened to a whole new world. To say I am impressed with them is a gross understatement. Warm rich highs, strong clear mids and ridicules bass for such a small "bookshelf" speaker. It saddens me a little that I didn't make the RtiA7's work because they are a fine speaker, especially for HT and I know many enjoy them for music as well. I suppose as many have said, it's all a matter of personal taste. All I know is, I have solved my problem and can now discover my CD collection all over again. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. :)
    Mains - Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand
    Subs - Rel T5 x 2
    Amplification - Bryston 3b cubed
    Pre Amp - Marantz Sc11-1
    SACD - Marantz Sa11-1
    Stream - Cambridge Audio CXN v2
    Dac - Marantz Dac-1
    TT - Pro-Ject RPM 9.1 w/ Ortofon 2M Black Cartidge
    Phono Stage - Project Tube box DS
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