Carver TFM-35 vs. Denon POA 2200
Comments
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Just in case you folks missed it [as if you care] and are to lazy to scroll back....this was his last post.And then please look up the definition for borderline personality disorder. Just do a google search, trust me.
I must be borderline personality!?!?!~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I like the F word. I also like pie.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Take a look at gears used in modern recording studios. Their first and foremost emphasis is on accuracy. The sound might be described as boring or sterile, that I do no disagree. But you can tweak the end result with a digital EQ to whatever shape and form your heart may desire, provided the upstream signal is an accurate signal.
Well then,the studio,adding digital eq,just added coloration to that accurate signal,yes? The perception of what music is supposed to sound like differs from ear to ear,hence the difference in gear.Or are you saying the signal is accurate after the studio adds their spin on it?If so,then thats not exactly accurate is it?Digital EQ is not the be all end all.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
As long as the upstream signal is accurate, you can add colorations to the signal, and the effect on the final result is predictable.
However, if the upstream signal is not accurate, then whatever additional colorations you add to the signal will give you unpredictable result. -
I like the F word as well, but I rarely make a display of such vulgarity in public.
As to pie, each person has his/her own eccentricities, but I would encourage safety above all else.I like the F word. I also like pie. -
A properly designed solid state amp is not supposed to have sound colorations.
How old is your Denon, perhpas the caps need to be replaced.
Most amps are design to as you say color sound to get the sound they want out of their amps. Krell, Adcom, Carver T and non T amp, Tube amps vs SS amps all have the specific sound or color to their amps. That's why manufactures get a following from one or the other listeners. Like speakers manufactures, everybody thinks the sound should be this way and another thinks it should be that way.
engtazengtaz
I love how music can brighten up a bad day. -
Well said. That's what I suspected all along.
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Tom was right, somebody doesn't know what the F they are talking about.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
F
The failings of a dysfunctional American educational system, and a pop culture that promotes profanity over reason. -
I'm effing bad, I'm effing nationwide. You're just a furball....ack ack.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
sucks2beme wrote: »The Denon is good, but the Carver is better.
I've had a POA2800 in my setup, and it didn't sound bad.
The Carver's high current output is going to give you a warmer sound.
That series of Denons seems to sell for as much as the Carvers.
I don't think money wise you're going to lose anything selling the
Denon rather than the Carver.
10-4. Thanks. I have spent a fair amount of time this week in the evenings listening and I have reached the same conclusion. I think maybe I was fooled by the if it weighs 60 lbs and has 100,000 UF bank of capacitors it has to be good kind of rationalization. There's only one test left to do and that requires the wife to leave the house, I am gonna reallythrow the juice to them with a Supertramp digital master or something like that. Thanks all for the help and comments. -
very simple here CARVER over the Denon for your amp selection.:cool: " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "
Denon 3300 Adcom 535 BBe w/sub out 1 pr 4.6s 2 pr of 4 jrs Recent additions Samsung Lns-4095D LCD, Samsung hd-960 DVD, Monster HT-5000 Power center,HPSA-1000 18" sealed DiY home sub.:D
Black Laquer 1.2tl's w/ upgraded x-overs and Tweets BI-Amped with 2 Carver tfm-35's Knukonceptz 10ga cables -
However, if the upstream signal is not accurate, then whatever additional colorations you add to the signal will give you unpredictable result.[/QUOTE]
Did you come up with that load of **** on your own? (I'd think twice before I took credit for that statement. In fact, I'm not sure I'd ever admit to making that statement. Too late for you though huh?) -
George Grand wrote: »load of ****
Everyone has to take care of business one way or another. I do it on a daily basis. I hope you at least do yours once a day. -
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BTW... Treitz does have personality disorder and and and overall nasty attitude. That's why we F**kin' love him!!!
I have two POA-1500 and I like 'em a lot....you bunch of hacks. -
ryboltroad wrote: »10-4. Thanks. I have spent a fair amount of time this week in the evenings listening and I have reached the same conclusion. I think maybe I was fooled by the if it weighs 60 lbs and has 100,000 UF bank of capacitors it has to be good kind of rationalization. There's only one test left to do and that requires the wife to leave the house, I am gonna reallythrow the juice to them with a Supertramp digital master or something like that. Thanks all for the help and comments.
Ok, the showdown wasn't a show down at all. The Carver whooped **** in every thing I threw at it. The Denon sounds good but it doesnt stand a chance against the tfm-35. I dont think the monitor 10's have ever had that much power thrown at them, it was kinda frightening as to who was gonna give. The Carver whooped ****, predicted by you gurus which is no surprise. In fact there is really no comparing the two amps considering the music I use. I mean you are standing there with a glass of Talisker scotch getting all smug thiniking you are an audiophile and the Carver reaches up and punches you in the chest and reminds you who is boss. My test sources were Supertramp and Dire Straights ...... masters.
BTW, I like profanity so please feeling F!@#ing free to use f!@#$ing profanity in any F!@#$ing thread in which I am the F!@#$ing author!
Peace. Thanks ...............
Denon POA and Monitor 7C's going up for sale. PM me if interested.
Gregg -
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
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Do the Carvers, and the newer Sunfires have the same sound signature?Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
Pretty much so Ben,at least from my ears.Of coarse being all things equal in the associated gear department.I thought the older carvers had a tad bit more warmth to them but I could be wrong.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Probably closer to the 706 and 806X which I beleive were the last Carvers out the door.
Combo rig:
Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
PB13Ultra RO
BW Silvers
Oppo BDP-83SE -
Pardon me for being a newbie.
Which places sell those Carver amps? -
Do the Carvers, and the newer Sunfires have the same sound signature?
No not really. The older Carvers (IMO) are a bit more musical and perhaps a bit more "laid back" than the Sunfire's. Adcom to my ears is worlds better (in the few instances I've compared).
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Take a look at gears used in modern recording studios. Their first and foremost emphasis is on accuracy..
This could POSSIBLY be the biggest load of crap in recent memory. Dry that one out and you could fertilize most of the midwest with it.
That said, I agree, the Carver is the better amp.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
For your information, throughout most of human history, fermented human **** and animal manure were the only source of fertilizer used in farming. This practice was only gradually changed when the Germans invented chemical fertilizer in the late 1800's.
Even today, fermented human **** and animal manure are prized fertilizers in many parts of the world.
How do you think your precious "organic" food get fertilized?This could POSSIBLY be the biggest load of crap in recent memory. Dry that one out and you could fertilize most of the midwest with it.
BDT -
Well, it could well be said that you certainly do know ****.I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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Agreed,and that is the goal of companies like Levinson ,Bryston and Pass Labs etc,to produce amplifiers that alter the signal as little as possible.However each have a different recipe for trying to achieve this accurasy thus each will have their own sonic signature.
But you have to agree that the job of a properly designed amp is to amplify the signal fed to it, without adding any colorations in the amplification process.Testing
Testing
Testing -
How much are you asking for the Denon? Any pictures?ryboltroad wrote: »Ok, the showdown wasn't a show down at all. The Carver whooped **** in every thing I threw at it. The Denon sounds good but it doesnt stand a chance against the tfm-35. I dont think the monitor 10's have ever had that much power thrown at them, it was kinda frightening as to who was gonna give. The Carver whooped ****, predicted by you gurus which is no surprise. In fact there is really no comparing the two amps considering the music I use. I mean you are standing there with a glass of Talisker scotch getting all smug thiniking you are an audiophile and the Carver reaches up and punches you in the chest and reminds you who is boss. My test sources were Supertramp and Dire Straights ...... masters.
BTW, I like profanity so please feeling F!@#ing free to use f!@#$ing profanity in any F!@#$ing thread in which I am the F!@#$ing author!
Peace. Thanks ...............
Denon POA and Monitor 7C's going up for sale. PM me if interested.
Gregg -
**** is such an, ambiguous word, it is rarely used in polite society.
In polite society, the term fecal matter is the preferred term.
And I certainly do hope that you know your fecal matter as well, because like it or not, all the food that we eat everyday, including the dinner that your just ate, are recycled matter, including recycled fecal matter.Well, it could well be said that you certainly do know ****.
