So polkatese..............

mantis
mantis Posts: 16,357
Hows the StormIII doing?Give it a hug, rub the top of it and tell it thats some love Mantis send it..........:D
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
Post edited by mantis on

Comments

  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,357
    edited December 2002
    I know that sounded/read twisted......I was just juiced up on REL( LIke I'm not all the time anyway)after posting a reply a moment ago.........O REL.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    Dan,
    I am sooo glad that I went with REL, it is literally made every cd that I owned so much enjoyable to listen (over and over) again. All the GRP label that I owned, I am starting to appreciate much more, along with my collections of Ramsey Lewis. In short, it changes the quality of sounds of my system for the better. As a matter of fact, I have a question for you: is there a scientific way of setting the gain level, along with the coarse/fine crossover adjustment on this baby? I had tweaked it according to REL manual suggestions, and of course, at the end, it sounded great without overwhelming the LSi15. Do you have a listening test process that you follow to ensure the sound is "just right" when you work with REL. Second question: I am not quite sure whether mode 1 and 3 are the same (in phase) or 2 and 4 (out of phase)? Please educate me on this since I am not sure if I can tell the difference between mode 1 and 3. Current setting is mode 2, coarse C, fine 4, gain at about 11.75 o'clock. Thanks, bud!
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,357
    edited December 2002
    Ok,
    I have a question for you: is there a scientific way of setting the gain level, along with the coarse/fine crossover adjustment on this baby? I had tweaked it according to REL manual suggestions, and of course, at the end, it sounded great without overwhelming the LSi15. Do you have a listening test process that you follow to ensure the sound is "just right" when you work with REL.
    Here's how I setup a REL.First off lets take the usual setup for LFE.Since you own the rsx1065 with a built in crossover for LFE,lets set that up now.Since all of the Lsi's have useable bass at least down to 50hz,go ahead and set the rsx1065 to 60hz.Hook up REL and set crossover point to LFE,which is a by pass input.Test tone with SPL as usual.
    Now the balanced input.I wire that to the left and right main speaker posts.Placing the shared ground on the right speaker,for no better reason then to be consistant.Since the lsi15's can get into the 30hz range,I would set the crossover to40hz.this should yield a good position for blending.Now how do we set the correct level?Well I don't have a scientific way but a Manits way,and hopefully it will work out for yeah.Now generate test tone into the left main speaker only,REL gain level to lowest position.take a reading.For example:the left main speaker is giving off a SPL of 80db,No raise the level of the sub until it get to 81 or 82db with the left main still toning or you can just disconnect the left main and leave the sub hooked up and raise it up to 80db.Repeat with the right speaker and take the average setting of gain of the REL.This should yield a great starting point.Most cases you'll want to lower the gain on the sub slightly for a complete blend.

    As far as the phase setting,like other sub's,change it untill it yields the highest SPL.I have found Phase to work if the front half of the room to work from 90 and down,half the room and back 90 to 180.You gotta play with it to see what yields the best position.Take your time and play with it.
    O before I forget,I feel the sub works best corner loaded,not all the way into the corner but pulled out untill the bass is smooth.The sub also works on side walls.I don't like th esub in the back of the room,you can but then you gotta run it out of phase.
    Well there you have it.Maybe this will hep,maybe not.This is just what I do when setting up REL subs.It works great everytime.
    Don't worry about it.Play with it.It got alot of setup things you can do with it that other sub's cannot.
    You'll find it's place in your room.

    One thing I didn't mention that you asked about the listening.I listen to the sub after each setup and se if it blends in with the rest of the speakers.I don't like the sub to call attention to itself.But a perfect blend in.(for movies that is or multichannel music.)
    Music I do the same thing(2 channel)Listen to some cd's I know well and try to make the main speakers and the sub to work as if the sub with apart of the mains,again not calling attention to itself.
    Enjoy man ,you picked on the best sub's I know of.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    Dan,
    thanks for the explanations. I did most of the suggestions lined out on their setup doc on their web page. It works well, now I am going to tweak it some more based on Mantis way, I'll let you know......my LSiFx start to open up more, LSi15 still has some burn-in time to go, the REL is not as obvious, but I think it's a matter of time....
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,357
    edited December 2002
    polkatese,
    where is the sub placed?Do you have pic's of your room I could look at?
    The REL"S sound terrific right out of the box.But after some burn in time,they sound even better,like any other speaker.
    I'm considering the Q series 201E in cherry.It's a fantastic sub,front firing and small.hits down to 18hz.Killer little thing it is.

    Well I hope some of my tips help you get the sound your lookin for.
    I'd love to see some pic's of it all together.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    Dan,
    Here are some pictures of the living room:
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    another one, REL and LSiFx living together in harmony :p :
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    another shot of the gears:
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    The mighty STORM along with the airline in trouble, but has taken me all over....(my son insist on having a replica in the house....:lol: ):
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    The other side of the wall, and the last one:
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,357
    edited December 2002
    OK,
    I see where it's at.Generally what I like to use in phase setting is 0 in the front of the room.From looking at the pic's I assume it's in the front left corner right???
    I feel sorry for the person sitting in that chair during Star Wars Ep2.LOL.

    Sysytem is looking great my man.Hey does that Airplane STAY on top of the sub?:p
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    Dan,
    you got it, front left corner, the plane indeed tried to take off during LOTR:FOTR and Episode 2, but usually end up in front of the fireplace :D I had it set at 0 on the phase too, glad you confirmed...thanks for your feedback.
    Had you ordered the Q201E yet? I suppose you have to special order it from Tweeter (?) and Cherry color would not be too common around here. Good choice of color though...
    Dan, just wondering, don't you have connections to Monster Cable folks? if so, can I order some from you? ;)
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,357
    edited December 2002
    polkatese,
    The REL I'm gonna order from Sumiko.RELS cherry is real close to Polk's Lsi cherry.Slightly lighter by a hair.
    As Far as connections with Monster?Yes I do but I'm forbidden to pass on the savings.Shame you didn't live near me,I can however give a friend of an emplyee discount.Not much savings but every penny counts right???
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    Dan,
    do you know anybody that sell multi channel a/b switcher? basically taking 5.1 input from two different source and be able to switch between them? I have a dilemma of having only one 5.1 input to the Rotel, and have two mc sources?
    On monster, I am about to get some M850i interconnects, the best price I can find is $65 for 1 meter pair, what do you think? thanks, fh
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited December 2002
    Just one comment.

    SCHWING!

    Killer setup man. I have to go change my boxers now....
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    phuz,
    thanks, that's funny though...:lol: trying to finish off the project before christmas. So far, I am happy with the results, thanks to you all on the suggestions...

    I did find a Sony TA-P9000ES for the multi channel preamp switcher. So, I lied, this preamp will be the last one for the year, since I hate to think that I have to plug and unplug the Rotel input to listen DVD-A and SACD.....I really need to find a different hobby :eek:
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,357
    edited December 2002
    Polkatese,
    first off teh 850i's at 60 for 1 meter is killer.But........you system should have M950i's I believe.Speaker wires for front 3 should be M1.4s bi wires.

    Now as far as 2 5.1 inputs,I see what your going to use.ever consider a Pioneer Elite Dv45a or 47a??all in one and only need one input.Most gear today only has one 5.1 in.Thats the way it goes my man.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    Dan,
    thanks for the info. I have the ms custom s4-c4 biwire today, and will save some dough for the m1.4 as it becomes available. I am waiting for the right opportunity off ebay for these cable since they are pretty steep.....I considered the 47ai before, and decided that denon 3800 is a better deal (I like the build and pq)....
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited December 2002
    do you know anybody that sell multi channel a/b switcher? basically taking 5.1 input from two different source and be able to switch between them?

    Polkatese - HERE is a less expensive option than the Sony pre-amp but still a little pricey at $200.

    A cheaper ($30) but not as nice option is to use 2 Radio Shack A/V switch boxes #15-1952 to switch between SACD and DVD-Audio. Each switch box has two A/V inputs (left and right audio and composite video) and one output. The inputs are marked 'A' and 'B', and there is an A/B switch on the top of the box. Here is how to use the switch boxes:

    Box 1
    Input A: DVD-Audio front left, front right, and center
    Input B: SACD front left, front right, and center
    Output: Front left, front right, and center to receiver's 5.1-channel inputs

    Box 2
    Input A: DVD-Audio rear left, rear right, and subwoofer
    Input B: SACD rear left, rear right, and subwoofer
    Output: Rear left, and rear right, and subwoofer to receiver's 5.1-channel inputs.

    HERE is a link.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    Shack,
    thanks for your recommendations. That's very helpful. I am leaning toward the $200, but don't quite get it why it cost that much for a passive switch, unless it has a small circuitry inside the box to ensure signal integrity? The $27 option it not bad at all. I wonder how much signal degradation going with second option though? either way, this is very useful information - take care. fh
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    Shack,
    it's me again, just wondering if you could shed some light to my thinking process on the 6 channel switch box. I came to conclusion that building that switch should not be a major exercise. I look at the three options (the sony preamp, the 6 channel swithbox, and the radshack) the 6 channel option is seems to be the most cost effective. Although I am very curious on what do I get for $200 other than a fancy switchbox. My curiosity is around the circuitry inside the box, I am not completely convinced that it has meaningful signal processing inside that black box (to maintain signal transparancy), do you have any information on this other than what the maker claim? the next question would be around the number of interconnects (need to add 6 sets of i/c to do this option), I felt that going with any of this option would introduce additional signal degradation path, what do you think? Sorry for the rantings, but to me it's amazing the additional investment I need to commit to have two separate sources of 5.1 channels...currently, I sacrifice DVD-A for SACD, since my SACD collections start growing at a faster rate compared to DVD-A (purely due to more availability of jazz titles on SACD) :mad:
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited December 2002
    Polkatese - I think there is more than just a manual switching mechanism in the box since there are options for a remote switch and a trigger mechanism from a receiver or preamp. I too think a similar but simpler box could be made much cheaper. I've wondered if you could take the works of the Rshack units and put them into one box. Another option would be to print a picture of the box and take it to an electrical supply house or electronic hobby shop and see if they could supply you with all the components to build one yourself. I don't think it would be that hard.

    You need at least 9 sets of interconnects. 3 sets from each source and 3 sets to the preamp or receiver. With SACD you need one more set if you ever want to listen to SACD 2 channel only or use your CDP's DAC to pass an analog signal...for a total of 10 sets. The ones I use are pretty cheap at $20 a set but that is still $200 total.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    Shack,
    Thanks for your response. I meant to say, I need 6 sets of i/c's in addition to what I already have.

    I sent a question to Shawn Fogg as follows:

    Q: " Also, I am curious, on your page, you mentioned that the switch is passive, but you also mentioned about power requirement. "

    A: The signal path through the switch box is RCA jack, bit of wire, relay, bit of wire, RCA jack. The power supply is user to energize the relays coils to switch between the two inputs. It also provides power to the IR module if so equipped.

    what do you think?

    cheers,
    Polkadance
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2002
    ATC,
    thanks, it was one of the major upgrade accomplished for the year, and I am extremely satisfied with what I have (for now) one of the outstanding issue is the one that I've been getting some great feedback from Shack......
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited December 2002
    Polkatese - the expanation from Shawn makes sense. Since there is only one A/B switching mechanism and it is obviously not a manual one there must be a electrical signal sent to each relay at the same time. The price he is asking may not be to bad for that box but I would bet he has less than $75 in parts. 18 RCA jacks and 6 relays the box and the trigger. I still wonder if you could make a manual switcher (similar to the Rshack model) for less than $50. The trick would be to get something that would manual switch 6 relays at once. We know the Rshack does 3. I may have to tear tear down one of those to see how it works. After Christmas I may look into making one.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson