Seas 18RNX in Monitor 10's

Joe08867

wizzy wrote: »

Looks like a Monacor tweeter:

http://www.monacor.de/typo3/index.php?id=84&artid=2138&spr=EN&typ=full

I think you are right. I have seen Monacor on there site in the past. They probably license them now.

wizzy

License2ILL wrote: »

So it's between MW6503's or the Silver flutes.
Does anyone have a 7inch I could use?

The replacement drivers from Polk are ~50 each, the SF's are about $25 each. Not sure about shipping.

What would you do w/ the 7 inch?

wizzy

Joe08867 wrote: »

I think you are right. I have seen Monacor on there site in the past. They probably license them now.

So here's the question ... if the Monacor has a resonant frequency of 1.5Khz, and the Monitor 10 crossover is 1.2Khz, wouldn't that make it a bad match as a replacement tweeter?

Monacor recommends 2.5Khz crossover.

Now that 1.2 figure is a Mon 10 w/ SL2000, maybe the Peerless models had a higher crossover?

jakelm

Its all in the design Wizzy. The design of the speaker, not the driver itself.

wizzy

Most tweeters I have seen are fully enclosed so they aren't affected by the design of the speaker enclosure ... how would the design of the speaker box effect the performance of this tweeter? Or where the resonant frequency is?

I'm not a speaker builder, so I appreciate any enlightenment. Does resonant freq even matter?

For reference, here is the response curve attached.

jakelm

Wizzy, if you look at the sweep of that tweeter, it will actually work great with the 10's xover. 1200hz is where I would cross it over anyway.

wizzy

I see, so really even though 1.5Khz is the resonant frequency the impedance spike is really nothing at that point - say opposed to a speaker like a woofer that might have a res of 40Hz where the impedance might jump to 30+ ohms ....

jakelm

Well, what the graph is telling me, is, the imp spike is below the xo point. It looks to be around 1khz, which would be below the 1.2khz mark I would xo it. But altimatly, it would be based on where I xo the midwoofers.

ben62670

License2ILL wrote: »

Well I'm convinced....just a matter of time now. but it definitely will happen. I may even pick one up before selling mine with tax money.

Ben you spoke of a different setup earlier tho...sounded like an industrial grade straight amp with some woofer controls. What's a good low end setup like that go for. Only cuz I'd rather cut to the chase and go with something that heavy duty....I know it will probably need a seperate receiver at that point but maybe I could use a small boombox in the intirem.

This just gets better and better that tweeter looks like a definite winner!

So it's between MW6503's or the Silver flutes.
Does anyone have a 7inch I could use?

Please clarify which setup you are referring to. I am glad to see you are still in design mode, and still hanging out. What you really need to do first is update what you are driving them with more than what you are driving. Those speakers will sound like a completely different set after you change what you are driving them with. I am guessing your budget is limited(mine is very limited), but the best money you could possibly spend right now would be a cheap HK receiver that could be had for less than 2 bills. If you focus on building better speakers first the speaker upgrade will be barely noticeable with the receiver you are driving them with. Guessing gets me into trouble some times, but I am guessing that you have some car audio experience by the distortion ratings given by the receiver. Any Mid Fi amplification is going to be in the realm of .01 - .000x. While distortion numbers in car audio that I have seen lately on moderate gear is in the .1 to .o1 range, and the manufactures are boasting about it

ben62670

jakelm wrote: »

Wizzy, if you look at the sweep of that tweeter, it will actually work great with the 10's xover. 1200hz is where I would cross it over anyway.

Why would you XO a 6.5 at such a low frequency? Have you every done an SPL sweep to find out where you mids are actually XOed at in your monitor 10 XO (I think I am remembering your project center speaker correctly)? There are no lobing, or phase issues with 6.5s right next to each other till 2250hz, and design white paper say that it is inaudible to nearly anyone to 2500hz. When I set mine actively XOed I liked 2000-2250 as an XO point for best imaging, SQ, and power handling.
Thanks
Ben

Systems

wizzy wrote: »

Most tweeters I have seen are fully enclosed so they aren't affected by the design of the speaker enclosure

Correct

. how would the design of the speaker box effect the performance of this tweeter? Or where the resonant frequency is?

the enclosure volume will not have any effect on the closed back tweeter or it resonance.The resonance of the tweeter will be determined by its sealed volume and its mass.

Does resonant freq even matter?

It sure does,the general recommendation is to place the crossover point atleast 1 octave above a tweeters resonance freq (ie.at 3k for a resonance of 1.5k.)If the tweeter has ferro fluid in its magnet gap then it will damp the resonance (the impedance peak at resonance will almost disappear with the addition of the fluid)then the xover can be placed a bit lower than a tweeter that does not have FF.

License2ILL

ben62670 wrote: »

Guessing gets me into trouble some times, but I am guessing that you have some car audio experience by the distortion ratings given by the receiver.While distortion numbers in car audio that I have seen lately on moderate gear is in the .1 to .o1 range, and the manufactures are boasting about it

I was more into car audio as a mixed up kid. But my dad was the home Hifi buff(retired from....happy with small low cost alternatives now). I never got into specs as much as I try to dabble in them now. But was trained in electronics many moons ago. So I have some conceptual understandings but mostly a good learning curve. I'm into home stuff now cuz I understand why some ppl use to give me evil looks when I drove by booming 2 rockford 15"s and a punch 150. That's not to say that car boom doesn't have it's place but cheap rattling and azzwipes that boom by @3AM in the morning have another place where they belong.

Basically the signal is coming in "dirty"...I understand you...and Sony is high end for the average user.....but is not even in an entry player in true HiFi. This unit must be removed at once and bludgeoned with a splinty stick...hehehe. I plan to stop by my parents house if i'm not mistaken my pops has a powerful 4 channel Denon that was dropped but never fixed......this was the original monster that used to drive these speakers back in the day....I will post Model No. and see what you think of it. And if it's not up to par then I'll go with an HK or comparable. I plan to sell the Sony.

I'm basically trying to do all this while finalizing a big MS cert test...and multi-tasking is the name of the modern game so the speaker talk is still here cuz I'm rolling the whole project together into one giant ball of side work(more fun than studying...but doesn't kill the brain cells I need like drinking).

The 7 inches I'm questioning would be for the M10's I massaged them some to allow these Seas 7" to fit. So 7's will fit now but so will the 6.5's. (indistinguishably btw before purists chime in ranting)
I was kind of sold on using 7"s to aid in power handling and increase boom/all around performance by using more modern drivers.....it seems there are more Hifi manufacturer's making 7"s than 6.5's and thought finding something to fill in the old Polk shoes plus give possibly more mid-range should not be too hard to find.
While the MW's may end up being what I go with.....apparently if I have to.......there IS some rocket science-try going on here(contrasting some1 who wrote there wasn't)......becuz modern drivers have more to their designs and their charts show wider ranges and DB levels. Their use should enhance the M10s.
The MW driver's design probably haven't been given a real update in a long time. And with other units being sold in other configurations.....they may never.

But I'm not for taking away performance so if there is magic, and enchantment/wizadry with these boxes and their original drivers then so be it.........and let the modern drivers be defeated. And I will baptize myself in holy purists water(XO tweaks excluded.... after all it looks like our buddies on this thread are deciphering what I will need to change in order to use that perfect drop in monacor tweeter!! :cool:)

jakelm

ben62670 wrote: »

Why would you XO a 6.5 at such a low frequency? Have you every done an SPL sweep to find out where you mids are actually XOed at in your monitor 10 XO (I think I am remembering your project center speaker correctly)? There are no lobing, or phase issues with 6.5s right next to each other till 2250hz, and design white paper say that it is inaudible to nearly anyone to 2500hz. When I set mine actively XOed I liked 2000-2250 as an XO point for best imaging, SQ, and power handling.
Thanks
Ben

Ben my project of the center channel, involved a M10 crossover. I am simply working with the parts I have on hand. And it didnt turn out that bad. To change the inductor in that xover would be a job I am not ready to tackle. So I left the inductor as is. And modified the tweeter to compisate for the LP.

I believe Wizzy is working with the same thing. Unless he plans on building and intirely new xo design, he will have to live with the 1.55mH inductor.

jakelm

License2ILL wrote: »

But I'm not for taking away performance so if there is magic, and enchantment/wizadry with these boxes and their original drivers then so be it.........and let the modern drivers be defeated. And I will baptize myself in holy purists water(XO tweaks excluded.... after all it looks like our buddies on this thread are deciphering what I will need to change in order to use that perfect drop in monacor tweeter!! :cool:)

To be honest. I believe the crossover design was built around the drivers. So in a way, yes, there is a sense of magic involved. Especially if you saw the specs on the MW driver itself...:eek::eek:

wizzy

License2ILL wrote: »

I'm into home stuff now cuz I understand why some ppl use to give me evil looks when I drove by booming 2 rockford 15"s and a punch 150.

Bah ... if people don't want to hear cars driving by firing 130db out their windows then they shouldn't buy houses next to roads.

W

License2ILL

I still beleive in boom just not in residential areas during the middle of the night or early mornings.

At a light on a busy street or on the highway, at a park...at a parking lot...why not? just a little discretion is all it takes.

Face

I used to be that jerk who blasted his system at lights, I never realized how obnoxious it was till a few years ago.

wizzy

Yeah, I usually turn it down at stoplights, pulling into stores, and downtown type areas ..