Monster Cables Vs....

lanion

COAT HANGERS!

http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger

Face

That's great!

Gaara

Gizmodo really needs to check their sources. Anyone click on the Audioholcis link? I looked at the thread for 5 mins, the poster has 7 posts, the post in question is a response to a thread on diminishing returns for speakers.

The guy goes on and on and is completely off topic for most of his post. He describes his system in extreme detail including his 50k 750lb speakers that are diy by his PhD acoustical engineer brother, as well as his custom 450lb subwoofer. The poster is a 61 year old PhD himself who drives a lexus.

As for the testingtThey did a blind test with only 5 trials with music none of them have ever heard before. When asked for pics of his amazing gear he gives his life story instead. I don't buy a word of it.

lanion

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Road Runner

I don't know about coat hangers, but I think they proved with ABX testing that all cable sounds the same unless the length is really long in which case you need thicker cable. Some cables go for something like, I don't know, maybe $500 a foot in the really extreme cases. So some people might be spending 2000 times too much on something.

chargerman426

lanion thats one of the funniest thing ever. So is going to get people to stop spending outrages amounts of money on cables think they will make a huge difference. Now cables make make a tinny difference but can anyone really say that its worth 1400 dollars for copper wire.

venomclan

Road Runner wrote: »

I don't know about coat hangers, but I think they proved with ABX testing that all cable sounds the same unless the length is really long in which case you need thicker cable. Some cables go for something like, I don't know, maybe $500 a foot in the really extreme cases. So some people might be spending 2000 times too much on something.

It cannot be proven, sound quality is too subjective. As far whether cables make a difference, yes they do. As you climb the ladder into better and better gear, the more difference it makes. Cables, I/C's and power cables do make a difference in my system.
Venom

Ferres

Skeptics always argue it's purely psychological due to price and aesthetic factors. But I've tested $50.00 cables that out perform $400 cables. So pricing aside, cables do make a difference but you really have to find the good ones hidden under the hype.

Many reviews are unreliable. You have to listen for yourself and spend quite a bit of time listening to get accustomed to what is there and what is lacking in you favorite tracks. Preferably CD's with multiple instruments on the bkgd.

madmax

As you listen to different wires you notice different signatures. Thats a fact. Price doesn't always tell the story but often it does. Lets face it, you can get a decent but cheap piece of wire, dress it up nicely and ask whatever price you want. It won't sound better than the same piece of wire without all the dressup. On the other hand, certain wire designs can sound much better than the standard off the shelf roll of wire.
madmax

steveinaz

I guess I can't use my "then just use coat hangers" joke anymore...LOL

Road Runner

It cannot be proven, sound quality is too subjective.

I don't remember exactly what they did with those ABX tests with the cables, they may have not been the best tests. One thing that provides pretty good evidence that there's no difference comes from the times that they trick someone and say they changed the cable, but they really didn't. Listeners will claim that they're hearing all these differences in sound, but there's no way they could because the cable was never changed. The only difference is the listener believes that the cable was changed. Another thing that makes it seem like there's no difference is that the differences that people claim to hear are not differences that could be caused by a difference in the cable, like a larger soundstage which supposedly can only be caused by differences in speakers or things like the SDA effect. But I'm not really clear on all that. Same people claim to notice differences in the "visual" presentation of sound with tube amps, so who knows.

heiney9

Road Runner wrote: »

I don't remember exactly what they did with those ABX tests with the cables, they may have not been the best tests. One thing that provides pretty good evidence that there's no difference comes from the times that they trick someone and say they changed the cable, but they really didn't. Listeners will claim that they're hearing all these differences in sound, but there's no way they could because the cable was never changed. The only difference is the listener believes that the cable was changed. Another thing that makes it seem like there's no difference is that the differences that people claim to hear are not differences that could be caused by a difference in the cable, like a larger soundstage which supposedly can only be caused by differences in speakers or things like the SDA effect. But I'm not really clear on all that. Same people claim to notice differences in the "visual" presentation of sound with tube amps, so who knows.

I know. Cables make a difference in my rig, PERIOD. If you haven't tried it you aren't credible to speak about it. Try it, then come back and speak about experience not conjecture. Not trying to flame you, but you write as if you are just basing your opinion on "other" peoples experiences. Try it yourself.

H9

Face

heiney9 wrote: »

I know. Cables make a difference in my rig, PERIOD. If you haven't tried it you aren't credible to speak about it. Try it, then come back and speak about experience not conjecture. Not trying to flame you, but you write as if you are just basing your opinion on "other" peoples experiences. Try it yourself.

H9

Thank you for putting this into words better than I could.

I wish cables didn't matter, it would have saved me a lot of money.

Yashu

The coat hangers should sound better. Direct soldered connection. Point to point is always better than a connection made by nothing but friction.

That is not what I find funny though, the funny part is not that coathangers sound as good as Monster, but that Monster, as usual, is proven to be nothing but marketing.

Try some real cables and then do the test. I am not going to say they will sound better or worse, but there should be a difference. Everything makes a differece. Monster is average at best, so apparently are point to to point coathangers.. Home depot heavy duty extension cord should sound better than Monster when used with proper connectors. Monster is fueled by marketing. Those of us that are in it for the music aren't afraid to say we have solderd coat hangers, or Home Depot cable, or really any strange tweak or thing, as long as it sounds good. We will spend 10 dollars or 1000 dollars as long as it sounds better. Some people use this stuff as a status symbol. Bose, Monster, Apple, etc, these are status brands. The average person will tell you they are the best, where as the educated person knows there is better, but not always based on price.

steveinaz

You know, as much as using a bunch of coat hangers to rig up my system sounds wonderful and thrifty, I think I'll stick with Kimber.

venomclan

I can't afford the coat hangers, especially if they are THX Certified. How do paper clips work?

Yashu

I don't know, ask Amar Bose?

heiney9

steveinaz wrote: »

You know, as much as using a bunch of coat hangers to rig up my system sounds wonderful and thrifty, I think I'll stick with Kimber.

Problem is coat hangers are manufactured with "pot metal". Very poor audio transfer properties compared to long grain multi-strand copper or "star" quad type configuration.

Even if I could wire my rig with coat hangers I wouldn't do it.

Road Runner

Try it, then come back and speak about experience not conjecture. Not trying to flame you, but you write as if you are just basing your opinion on "other" peoples experiences. Try it yourself.

Well, a double blind study is more than just conjecture. But, I don't have the link for that, so I can't say how good it was. I imagine it would depend on the type of music that they were playing and the speakers and all that because some might reveal differences more easily than others. Another thing is that they may have used a switching box of some kind and that might reduce the effect of the cable if there was one. Yeah, I never tried it myself, but if I did, I would trust it more if I was able to pick it out blind than if I just noticed a difference when I knew which cables were being used when. For some of the differences in speakers that I've heard, I have no doubt that it's a real difference and that very little if any of the diffence in what I was hearing was psychological. But for subtle differences, I might doubt whether or not what I was hearing was in my mind or in the acoustic signal itself.

BottomFeeder

I tried some nice cables, hoping & believing that I wouldn't hear a difference.

Oops. I did.

steveinaz

heiney9 wrote: »

Problem is coat hangers are manufactured with "pot metal". Very poor audio transfer properties compared to long grain multi-strand copper or "star" quad type configuration.

Even if I could wire my rig with coat hangers I wouldn't do it.

You didn't take me seriously did ja bro-hampster?

jakelm

I think this is going to be my new reference pic....

heiney9

steveinaz wrote: »

You didn't take me seriously did ja bro-hampster?

LOL- No, I forgot the smiley.

Road Runner

It cannot be proven, sound quality is too subjective. As far whether cables make a difference, yes they do. As you climb the ladder into better and better gear, the more difference it makes. Cables, I/C's and power cables do make a difference in my system.

But it can't be proven?:rolleyes:

heiney9

Road Runner wrote: »

But it can't be proven?:rolleyes:

Go away and come back when YOU have actually tried it. The proof is in what your ears tell you. If, as you say, you don't trust your ears then leave it be and move on to something else.

Now you are just stirring the pot for the sake of being difficult. You have no personal experience so your comments about the subject aren't valid. :rolleyes:

Road Runner

heiney9 wrote: »

You have no personal experience so your comments about the subject aren't valid. :rolleyes:

Nope, my comments are still valid because there's no reason to believe that people who have done the double-blind tests are lying.

heiney9

Road Runner wrote: »

Nope, my comments are still valid because there's no reason to believe that people who have done the double-blind tests are lying.

It's not about lying it's about perception. Try it yourself. Why is that so hard to do? Plus, I care about what I experience not what others experience when it comes to audio reproduction. One has to be pretty closed minded to read about a few tests and then decide that outcome is absolute.

H9

Road Runner

heiney9 wrote: »

It's not about lying it's about perception. Try it yourself. Why is that so hard to do? Plus, I care about what I experience not what others experience when it comes to audio reproduction.

Right, it's about perception. The question is "what is causing a difference in perception?" It could be caused by a difference in the sound waves that are striking the ears because what the speakers were doing is different because the cable is different or it could be caused by something different in the brain because of a different expectation. The important thing is not to just care about the experience, it's to care about the experience and what is causing the experience to be different. It could be in the brain or it could be in the cable.

WilliamM2

One has to be pretty closed minded to read about a few tests and then decide that outcome is absolute.

Even if all the tests show the same results? I would say at that point, one has to be closed minded to not even consider that it may be expectation bias that has led to his own beliefs.

How many DBT's have you participated in? Or don't you trust your ears?

reeltrouble1

i now use string, a special twine i found in the garage, its a bit muddled in the bass but the highs are nice.

Once again we are saved by the newb and their infinite knowledge of all things cabled, the test the test the test, man reminds of that other guy who was here for a while singing the cables dont matter mantra.

RR use whatever you want on your rig.

RT1

jakelm

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

RR use whatever you want on your rig.

RT1

Chicken wire?



















...with the rust, for sonic reasons..